if Kill succeeds some folks will say it was Brewsters Boys.

[John Galt]

There was NO accountability under Brew and Michael Carter is a perfect example of this. Brew allowed Carter to walk all over him with Kill at the helm look at his turn around. Not only has he become a better football player but he has become a better student and person under Kill. Brew could land HIGH STAR recruits there is no question but he could not develop them nor did he hold them accountable. From the GPA, classroom attendance, preparation, study, weight room and coaching ability the difference between Brew and Kill is night and day!

I understand your point, there is no basis at all to say that Parish should have been a starting QB. But there is also no basis to say Carter has become a better football player under Kill. Carter's best year was when he was a freshmen, he did nothing last year on the field at all. Hopefully that changes this year, and the comments from camp are encouraging, but you can't rip someone for saying that Parish should have been a starter and then claim Michael Carter is a drastically better player under Kill based on what you've heard from camp.

 

[Wouldn't You like to Know]

I understand your point, there is no basis at all to say that Parish should have been a starting QB. But there is also no basis to say Carter has become a better football player under Kill. Carter's best year was when he was a freshmen, he did nothing last year on the field at all. Hopefully that changes this year, and the comments from camp are encouraging, but you can't rip someone for saying that Parish should have been a starter and then claim Michael Carter is a drastically better player under Kill based on what you've heard from camp.

I don't believe I used the word "drastically," in that sentence and my main point was how Michael has really grown up since he now has structure and being held accountable. Albeit practice if you watch last years film and what he has done during the spring and carried into camp there is NO way you can say that he is not a better football player.

 

[Killjoy]

Come to a practice and just watch the team speed. I will guarantee that we are going to be markedly better on Defense than we have been in years during this upcoming season. Also, look for a much more balanced offense and much improved O-Line. You really have to see it to believe it there really is that much of a difference. EASY 6 wins this season!

It is nice to read something from somebody who has actually seen what is happening at these practices. Some of our GopherHole experts just can't seem to get beyond "How could they be any good? They don't have the stars or the offers that are required or needed to be 'good'."

 

[JSaluki080]

I will begrudgingly give you/Kill SIU, for the most part my trepidation remain (in regards to Kill winning with his own players) but not the degree I would argue if you disagree. My point is that there is not enough of a track record (IMO) to establish that Kill is a lock for when it comes to successful recruitment and that the best football players on this roster are still Brewster recruits.

Also, while I'm in the same camp as those that believe Kill will be successful here and that he is a better X's and O's coach (not recruiter) than Brewster, they both (like everyone else) have their negatives and positives. The sad thing is, neither are better than what we had 7 years ago....Mason.

@dpodoll68, you beat me to the correction

@sportsfan24, As the great Patrick Henry once spoke, "I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past". Kill does have multiple years of developing a successful program. But nonetheless, I understand your anxiety. Kill, while successful at recruiting at the FCS level, is still in his infancy recruiting at the FBS level. But, take comfort in this, the most likely WORST case scenario for Minnesota Football is coach Kill leaves the program after several years of mediocrity and with a good solid foundation, leaving the next coach with the task of just maintaining and better recruiting. .... Not SOO bad, right?

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

I will begrudgingly give you/Kill SIU, for the most part my trepidation remain (in regards to Kill winning with his own players) but not the degree I would argue if you disagree. My point is that there is not enough of a track record (IMO) to establish that Kill is a lock for when it comes to successful recruitment and that the best football players on this roster are still Brewster recruits.

Also, while I'm in the same camp as those that believe Kill will be successful here and that he is a better X's and O's coach (not recruiter) than Brewster, they both (like everyone else) have their negatives and positives. The sad thing is, neither are better than what we had 7 years ago....Mason.

This is a silly discussion. Mason had one of his best teams in 99 that was loaded with Wacker guys, many who were the best players on the 99 squad.. So what's the point? I am guessing you are very pleased with that. Yet, you question Coach Kill's creditability.

The "neither are better than"....... Mason dig is laughable. Mason padded his record by beating patsies. Gutey likely would have had a better overall record playing the same NC schedule. IMO, Coach Kill is a program builder and insists on players staying the course and getting their degree. Mason was the head gate
keeper for a revolving door and many of his classes saw close to 50% of his players leave. Mason tenure was full of highs and lows to the point where he openly stated that he was rebuilding in year ten of his tenure. That is a "sad thing". Coach Kills records shows steady improvement to the point where his teams where at or near the top in their conference.

Maybe you should check back in ten years and see where Coach Kill stands in comparison before making such absurd statements.

 

[John Galt]

It is nice to read something from somebody who has actually seen what is happening at these practices. Some of our GopherHole experts just can't seem to get beyond "How could they be any good? They don't have the stars or the offers that are required or needed to be 'good'."

Michael Carter was a 4-star player and one of the highest recruited players we've had in the last 10 years, so I don't think anyone is questioning whether its possible that he could be good. The "fact" is he hasn't been for his first three years and barely played last year on a bad team, but now you're telling us he's arrived because of what you've seen at practice and that he's a "good" player. Forgive me for waiting to see it on the field for a few games before I prounounce him an all-B1G player. Everyone is an all-star in August, it was also this time last year when everyone was saying how great Shady Salomon looked at safety and how he was going to have a great senior season. Didn't exactly pan out that way, did it?

 

[nsmike]

As far as recruiting, I have noticed one notable improvement, all the recruits have the measurables to play their positions. With Mason and Brewster too many of the recruits need to overachieve to become good BCS players. With Kill they merely need to meet their potential. Coach Kill does make some trade offs, taking a somewhat smaller player to maximize speed, but it is never excessive. The biggest difference is the amount of speed on defense something we have sorely lacked in the past.

 

[nsmike]

Michael Carter was a 4-star player and one of the highest recruited players we've had in the last 10 years, so I don't think anyone is questioning whether its possible that he could be good. The "fact" is he hasn't been for his first three years and barely played last year on a bad team, but now you're telling us he's arrived because of what you've seen at practice and that he's a "good" player. Forgive me for waiting to see it on the field for a few games before I prounounce him an all-B1G player. Everyone is an all-star in August, it was also this time last year when everyone was saying how great Shady Salomon looked at safety and how he was going to have a great senior season. Didn't exactly pan out that way, did it?

When Coach Kill mentions that Carter has finally figured out that he is going to play the game his way, meaning the coaches, it tells me that the problem last year wasn't ability.

 

[DMB123]

Tim Brewster nearly destroyed this football program after it had been resurrected by Glen Mason after the Wacker years. If Jerry Kill succeeds here, and I believe he will, Tim Brewster deserves ZERO credit for any of it. Any other coach would have brought in similar type talent that Brewster did. It's not as if Brewster left Kill with a lot of talent, and we all know the program that Kill took over was in brutal shape after Brewster took only 3 1/2 years to bring it back down to the Wacker level. Giving Tim Brewster credit for any future success (even this year) that Jerry Kill has at Minnesota is laughable.

 

[Wouldn't You like to Know]

Forgive me for waiting to see it on the field for a few games before I prounounce him an all-B1G player.

I don't think that anyone is implying that he will be an all-B1G type of player there is just a noticeable difference in how he carries himself along with improved play. There is a reason that Kill has him running with the 1's this year whereas last year he was wearing a lofer jersey. If you are too blind too see that there is an improvement than you are just a negative nancy.

 

[John Galt]

I don't believe I used the word "drastically," in that sentence and my main point was how Michael has really grown up since he now has structure and being held accountable. Albeit practice if you watch last years film and what he has done during the spring and carried into camp there is NO way you can say that he is not a better football player.

A lot of players grow up by the time they are seniors. Do you also want to give Kill credit for making the sun come up today? I'm not saying Carter is or isn't better. We'll see it on the field starting 8/30 against real competition.

 

[John Galt]

I don't think that anyone is implying that he will be an all-B1G type of player there is just a noticeable difference in how he carries himself along with improved play. There is a reason that Kill has him running with the 1's this year whereas last year he was wearing a lofer jersey. If you are too blind too see that there is an improvement than you are just a negative nancy.

Great for MC, he seems to be improved and to have turned the corner. If he gets beat for 2 TDs in the 1st half against UNLV and is replaced by Shabazz, are you still going to tell me he's a better player?

 

[Wouldn't You like to Know]

A lot of players grow up by the time they are seniors. Do you also want to give Kill credit for making the sun come up today? I'm not saying Carter is or isn't better. We'll see it on the field starting 8/30 against real competition.

Come on man are you that blind! The dude was wearing a Lofer jersey this time last year, not attending classes and having a piss poor attitude. As my late uncle always said "attitude is everything," and when kids with as much talent as Carter apply themselves and are held accountable they reap the benefits and so do we as fans. Brew was letting these kids do whatever they wanted isn't that much obvious. Instead of being a father figure Brew was trying to be there friend and that simply didn't work with most kids especially the ones that aren't self starters.

Kill has said repeatedly that he is NOT their friend but their father you may look no further that the teams overall G.P.A to see that this method is working.

 

[Wouldn't You like to Know]

Great for MC, he seems to be improved and to have turned the corner. If he gets beat for 2 TDs in the 1st half against UNLV and is replaced by Shabazz, are you still going to tell me he's a better player?

Are you gonna jump on the bandwagon when he has a pick six?

 

[dpodoll68]

Any other coach would have brought in similar type talent that Brewster did.

Good one.

 

[John Galt]

Come on man are you that blind! The dude was wearing a Lofer jersey this time last year, not attending classes and having a piss poor attitude. As my late uncle always said "attitude is everything," and when kids with as much talent as Carter has apply themselves and are held accountable they reap the benefits and so do we as fans. Brew was letting these kids do whatever they wanted isn't that much obvious. Instead of being a father figure Brew was trying to be there friend and that simply didn't work with most kids especially the ones that aren't self starters.

Kill has said repeatedly that he is NOT their friend but their father you may look no further that the teams overall G.P.A to see that this method is working.

Are we talking about whether MC is a better person or a football player? I have no idea what kind of a person he is, other than short blurbs from coaches and journalists. Since you seem to know him personally and understand that he has a better attitude due to the tutelage of Coach Kill, and since you are taking the same classes as he is and know that he is now showing up smiling each day, I'll take your word on that.

 

[John Galt]

Are you gonna jump on the bandwagon when he has a pick six?

I'm already on the bandwagon and will stand up and cheer when it happens. Now answer my question.

 

[Wouldn't You like to Know]

Are we talking about whether MC is a better person or a football player? I have no idea what kind of a person he is, other than short blurbs from coaches and journalists. Since you seem to know him personally and understand that he has a better attitude due to the tutelage of Coach Kill, and since you are taking the same classes as he is and know that he is now showing up smiling each day, I'll take your word on that.

Actually, I do have a class with MC and have had classes with him in the past.

 

[Deleted_User]

Actually, I do have a class with MC and have had classes with him in the past.

Nice for you. Glad you attend class. Since you are fresh out of the package, keep posting. We would like to know how well you are doing and if you have more to say about our Golden warriors.

 

[wait!what?]

Fact is Jerry Kill has never had this much talent to work with, so we should find out fairly quickly if he can coach in the BT. If he fails at this level it will be because he busily crafted the greatest MAC level team to ever play in the Big Ten. The poster above who said the program will be on solid ground is correct- good kids producing good results but no one here wants a .500 club.

 

[station19]

Fact is Jerry Kill has never had this much talent to work with, so we should find out fairly quickly if he can coach in the BT. If he fails at this level it will be because he busily crafted the greatest MAC level team to ever play in the Big Ten. The poster above who said the program will be on solid ground is correct- good kids producing good results but no one here wants a .500 club.

Coach Kill has never had a BCS/Big Ten school to recruit to either.

Pretty difficult to recruit Big Ten talent at Northern Ill.

 

[dpodoll68]

Pretty difficult to recruit Big Ten talent at Northern Ill.

It's pretty difficult to recruit Big Ten talent to Minnesota, and Minnesota is at least in the Big Ten. Imagine how much harder it is for a lower-level I-A school.

 

[station19]

It's pretty difficult to recruit Big Ten talent to Minnesota, and Minnesota is at least in the Big Ten. Imagine how much harder it is for a lower-level I-A school.

True

 

[DMB123]

Good one.

You disagree? Are there still Gopher fans out there that actually believe Brewster was this great recruiter? Not only did Brewster not upgrade the talent from the Mason era, he downgraded it.

There is not one positive aspect of this program that you can point to right now and give Brewster credit for, not one.

 

[Go4Broke]

There is not one positive aspect of this program that you can point to right now and give Brewster credit for, not one.

Be careful there, DumbBoy123. Your irrational Brewster-hater slip is showing. Without Brewster we still would have a coach who is satisfied to beat four patsies in the exhibition season, lose far more games than he wins in the Big 10 (24-36), go to third rate bowl games, and then label as drunks the students who boo him at games.

I give Brewster a helluva lot more credit for TRYING to win a Big 10 Championship than a coach with a list of excuses in his back pocket for why he couldn't recruit blue chip players to Minnesota and compete for titles and first rate bowl games.

It is too bad that Brewster didn't work out but hiring him was a positive step into changing the 40-year losing culture at the U.

 

[Golden Elephant]

There's some ideas in this thread that I would humbly suggest that people should stop arguing:

1. Kill doesn't have enough of a track record to show that he will succeed at Minnesota. This is true but it's a tautology. It's like saying the team with the most points will win the game. Of course we don't know if Kill will succeed - every situation is different. That said, he's our coach now, so why worry about if his tenures at SIU or NIU or wherever conclusively show whether he will succeed here or not? They can't do this one way or another. We will know within another 2-3 years whether Kill can build and coach a winning program here and (hopefully) in the following 4-5 years whether he can sustain it. Looking to his past coaching stints can provide clues to how much success he'll have here, but nothing close to any definitive proof or evidence of what he'll do here.

2. Brewster was a great recruiter who just couldn't coach X's and O's. Now, I don't believe anyone came out and said "Brewster was a great recruiter" in this thread, but someone highlighted some key players (Gray, etc.) that he brought here. All well and good, but if you go back and look at his actual recruiting record, a big percentage of his top recruits never came here or didn't work out or whatever. I hope Brandon Green does great this year in his Sr year, but for a 4* recruit, he hasn't produced a lot in his first years here. As others have pointed out, Michael Carter was a big recruiting coup who is similar to Brandon Green in terms of production - I hope he has a great Sr year for us. Other top 4* guys Brew brought in - Sam Maresh, David Pittman (I'm sure dpo and others could quote the whole list) were complete busts or underachievers. Brew seemed to care a lot about the number of stars by a recruit's name, regardless of if they would turn into star football players. So please don't tell me (or imply) Brew was a great recruiter - he had one good class on paper that turned out to be a lot thinner than it originally looked.

Which brings me to what we all should've learned from the Brew era - I would much rather have a coach Kill, who has a system in place, a coaching staff in place, schemes in place and an idea of what type of player he wants to win and the confidence to recruit those players regardless of how many stars Rivals or Scout or ESPN "gives" them. Yes, he has never won at a BCS level before - he could fail at this job - but I'd argue he has about the best track record possible for anyone who would realistically accept a Gophers job. For those lamenting him bringing in "MAC-level talent," just note that - with 100% "MAC" talent - he went 2-3 against B1G teams (same winning percentage as sainted Mr. Mason), scoring exactly as many points as the B1G teams in those 5 games, all of which were on the road. Again, this doesn't prove he'll win here, but it does show us he's done well with less elsewhere - which is exactly what any Gophers coach will absolutely need to do if he is to be successful.

 

[dpodoll68]

You disagree? Are there still Gopher fans out there that actually believe Brewster was this great recruiter? Not only did Brewster not upgrade the talent from the Mason era, he downgraded it.

I'm not going to go round and round with you on this again, but it's absolutely silly to pick out the one thing Brewster was really, really good at (recruiting) and hammer him for it when he sucked at nearly every other aspect of being a major college head football coach. Ignore the stars - just look at the offer lists. Compare the offer list of the average Brewster recruit with that of Mason or Kill, and it's not even close. Brewster was a great recruiter. It's a simple fact. He and his staff were all very poor at personnel management and development, but that doesn't change the fact that he got a lot of players who were wanted by several better football programs to come here and play for the Gophers. Am I surprised that more guys are not getting drafted and/or playing in the NFL? No, not at all. I don't expect the NFL to lust after players who were poorly developed and played for a series of poor-to-mediocre teams. Part of that is on the players themselves for lacking the internal drive, and part of that is on Brewster and staff for not knowing how to get their best out of them, but the final blame all falls on Brewster for being too much of players' coach and ultimately doing them a disservice by not making them accountable for their discipline, behavior, and development. If we lived in an alternate universe where we could combine the recruiting abilities of Brewster, the player development skills of Mason, and the drive/determination/fortitude/discipline of Kill, we would compete for the national title every year under mutant coach Masterkill. Unfortunately, that's not possible, and some among us continue to hammer our past coaches for things they were actually extremely talented at achieving.

Also, Brewster absolutely did not downgrade the talent level from Mason. Mason was very good at taking poor-to-average players and making very good-to-great players out of them. Brewster was very good at doing the opposite. Brewster's players were much more talented, but Mason's players were much better football players because they had a skilled developer coaching them.

 

[DMB123]

Be careful there, DumbBoy123. Your irrational Brewster-hater slip is showing. Without Brewster we still would have a coach who is satisfied to beat four patsies in the exhibition season, lose far more games than he wins in the Big 10 (24-36), go to a third rate bowl games, and then label as drunks the students who boo him at games.

I give Brewster a helluva lot more credit for TRYING to win a Big 10 Championship than a coach with a list of excuses in his back pocket for why he couldn't recruit blue chip players to Minnesota and compete for titles and first rate bowl games.

It is too bad that Brewster didn't work out but hiring him was a positive step into changing the 40-year losing culture at the U.

Seriously? You can't possibly believe the part I bolded. If you do, your hatred for Glen Mason is completely irrational.

And Glen Mason has nothing to do with any of this, other than the fact that he's 10 times the coach Brewster ever will be.

I don't hate Brewster at all, I simply think he was a total a$$clown who embarrassed my alma mater for 4 years on and off the field.

 

[GophersInIowa]

You disagree? Are there still Gopher fans out there that actually believe Brewster was this great recruiter? Not only did Brewster not upgrade the talent from the Mason era, he downgraded it.

There is not one positive aspect of this program that you can point to right now and give Brewster credit for, not one.

Especially QB. There's no doubt Gray comes to Minnesota no matter who our coach was. He was just like the Olson brothers, born to be Gophers.

 

[dpodoll68]

Especially QB. There's no doubt Gray comes to Minnesota no matter who our coach was. He was just like the Olson brothers, born to be Gophers.

I'm sure that players like Gjere, Edwards, Hageman, Cooper, Stoudermire, Carter, Reeves, Wilhite, Green, Alipate, Garin, Kirkland, Manuel, KGM, Vereen, Wright, Matilus, K. McAvoy, L. McAvoy, and Westerhaus, all Brewster recruits with multiple BCS offers, would be glad to know that they are not "positive aspects" of the program right now.