if Kill succeeds some folks will say it was Brewsters Boys.

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wait!what?

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Let's say something goes awry this year and Kill wins more than he loses. Is it fair to say that Brewster was a decent recruiter but could not get the guys to execute on game day?
 

wait!what? said:
Let's say something goes awry this year and Kill wins more than he loses. Is it fair to say that Brewster was a decent recruiter but could not get the guys to execute on game day?
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Kill has said as much before.
Honestly the turnover has been incredible since Kill took over, alot of bodies have been brought in by the new staff, the classes that remain have already been hit by a fair amount of transfers in the past.

Gray being here is absolutely to Brewster's credit. He's a monster athlete, probably the best skill athlete ever to come here in the "modern" era of Gopher football.
Watching him take off in practice close up is both amazing and somewhat terrifying, he's so big and so fast.

Brewster wasn't the evil creature most want to make him out to be in the TC.
He was an ambitious guy who tried to set up a program based on recruiting, he also tried to catch lightning in a bottle too often and found himself in year 3/4 without a solid base to his program when the recruits didn't sustain the winning.
He brought in alot of guys who will help Kill set up his program here, and should those guys be successful, Coach Brew should be proud he brought them here.
 

A lot will depend on how important the Juco transfers are in the turn around. If the Jucos play a big role along with the true freshmen Brewster won't get a lot or credit.
 

In these transitional years, it is obviously a combo of both coaches. Part of Kill's problems last year were because of Brew (part of Brew's failures early were because of Mase), etc, etc.

If we do have success this year, I'd have to think it would be largely because of K. Cooper, Hageman, Olson, Olson, Epping, Rallis, Cooper, Stoud and even M. Carter, Reeves, DCT, B. Green, etc. If we have success here, Brew should get some credit for bringing those guys into the program.

Some people are hell bent on hating everything about the old and loving everything about the new, you saw it with Brew lovers/Mase haters and now with some people who will get bent out of shape if anyone posts anything good about Brew.
 

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wait!what? said:
Let's say something goes awry this year and Kill wins more than he loses. Is it fair to say that Brewster was a decent recruiter but could not get the guys to execute on game day?
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I never felt that Brewster could not recruit, it was always a lack of a plan and no real direction for our program. He was all about the fast, skill position recruits and a lot fell through when his o-line was consistently overpowered.
 

Ole said:
Kill has said as much before.
Honestly the turnover has been incredible since Kill took over, alot of bodies have been brought in by the new staff, the classes that remain have already been hit by a fair amount of transfers in the past.

Gray being here is absolutely to Brewster's credit. He's a monster athlete, probably the best skill athlete ever to come here in the "modern" era of Gopher football.
Watching him take off in practice close up is both amazing and somewhat terrifying, he's so big and so fast.

Brewster wasn't the evil creature most want to make him out to be in the TC.
He was an ambitious guy who tried to set up a program based on recruiting, he also tried to catch lightning in a bottle too often and found himself in year 3/4 without a solid base to his program when the recruits didn't sustain the winning.
He brought in alot of guys who will help Kill set up his program here, and should those guys be successful, Coach Brew should be proud he brought them here.
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Great points Ole, as much turnover as this team has had the "big knockers" will be Brewster recruits. The question I would ask is; are they better coached or just more experienced? And the next question I would ask is; if the program was so depleted of talent why isn't Kill recruits knocking them out of starting positions?

Personally I think the program was nowhere near as devoid of talent as some would have us believe. I think the classes were not balanced and the team was way to young (Brewsters fault). I think the team is benefiting from a much more stable coaching staff (notice I didn't say better..in the end I believe we had some guys who could coach) and we have a much more experienced head coach and staff who came in running because they had the understanding of what needs to be done to be successful.

I also believe this team would have been more successful last season under the previous staff. I also believe this team will be more successful in the future under this staff. And since I'm going on and on about what I believe (lol)...I believe without a doubt this team would have been light years ahead of where it will be in the future if we could somehow have a Brewster clone as the recruiting coordinator.

The one trepidation I have about Kill is asside from Southern Ill. most of his success has come with his predecessors players. And his most successful seasons at Southern were in the 1st 5 years when he had someone else's players.
 

It doesn't matter what people say after this year. If Kill is winning in 2-3 years, it will be with all of his players so it becomes a moot point. Brewster's 4th year was on pace to be one of the worst years in Gopher football history, rivaled only by his first year (1-11) and the 1983 squad.
 




If Kill wins this fall it's all him. The team wasn't going any where but down with Brewster. No way they win 3 or more last year. Brewster was a terrible coach who deserved his reputation as a laughingstock.
 

gophmeister said:
If Kill wins this fall it's all him. The team wasn't going any where but down with Brewster. No way they win 3 or more last year. Brewster was a terrible coach who deserved his reputation as a laughingstock.
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Even if Gray has a remarkable season?
 

The credit/blame should go to whomever the current coach is. The players are NOW all his boys.

Of course, the immediate satisfaction generation will always deal with today, not any long range plan involved.
 




Who is this Brewster fellow you speak of? Is he the same fellow who I once saw in a picture laying on the ground?

I am not particularly interested in going over old ground or crucifying Brewster but if some of you don't know by now what the differences are between Brewster and Kill you really don't understand what Kill has done here. Through his vision and his plan he has changed the culture dramatically from what it was when Brewster was here. To make it simple, the difference between Coach Kill and Brewster is that one is a real head coach while the other was an intern trying to learn how to become a head coach. If you don't know which one is Kill and which one is Brewster you should go back to sleep.
 

College coaches and other people associated with the college game came out of the woodwork praising Brewster as a recruiter when he was hired. Obviously the man can recruit. I think he proved that by landing some solid classes despite little success on the field.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
The one trepidation I have about Kill is asside from Southern Ill. most of his success has come with his predecessors players. And his most successful seasons at Southern were in the 1st 5 years when he had someone else's players.
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This is not accurate. His most successful SIU season by far was 2007, his 7th and final season as their head coach. He took a team that consisted entirely of players recruited by him and who played their entire collegiate careers for him to the national I-AA semifinals and a 12-2 record. His previous 2 seasons consisted of 2 trips to the quarters, something he didn't accomplish in his first 4 seasons when the team was made up mostly/entirely of Quarless recruits. The team got better the longer he stayed there, which is true for each head coaching job he's held. Each of his teams has posted a better record in the 2nd year than the 1st, so a floor of 4 wins is a virtual certainty this season.
 

Brew was a nice guy with the best of intentions, but he was clearly not ready to coach at the Big 10 level. I think the players saw this and checked out on him completely because they realized he was nothing but a cheerleader, and sort of an embarrassing one at that. As a coach you got to have the confidence of your boys. Yeah, let's try white helmets, that'll get every one fired up! Brew was the wrong guy. Admit it and move forward. Coach K is the guy now, and my sense is that he is much more grounded and substantive than his predecessor. To the extent that Brews recruits will play and succeed, it will be because of the coaching that K will provide.
 


dpodoll68 said:
This is not accurate. His most successful SIU season by far was 2007, his 7th and final season as their head coach. He took a team that consisted entirely of players recruited by him and who played their entire collegiate careers for him to the national I-AA semifinals and a 12-2 record. His previous 2 seasons consisted of 2 trips to the quarters, something he didn't accomplish in his first 4 seasons when the team was made up mostly/entirely of Quarless recruits. The team got better the longer he stayed there, which is true for each head
coaching job he's held. Each of his teams has posted a better record in the 2nd year than the 1st,
so a floor of 4 wins is a virtual certainty this season.
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I will begrudgingly give you/Kill SIU, for the most part my trepidation remain (in regards to Kill winning with his own players) but not the degree I would argue if you disagree. My point is that there is not enough of a track record (IMO) to establish that Kill is a lock for when it comes to successful recruitment and that the best football players on this roster are still Brewster recruits.

Also, while I'm in the same camp as those that believe Kill will be successful here and that he is a better X's and O's coach (not recruiter) than Brewster, they both (like everyone else) have their negatives and positives. The sad thing is, neither are better than what we had 7 years ago....Mason.
 

Wouldn't You like to Know said:
Of course, Brew played Gray as a receiver and it is obvious that Kill has coached him up!
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Brew had it right, Gray had a chance to be special as a receiver. QB? I'm pulling for him. The 2011 team wins more games with Parrish at QB and Gray at receiver. If there had been an open competition Parrish would have won it hands down....but that's why there wasn't. Now in fairness to Gray he hadn't been groomed to be successful last year (IMO) by the previous staff. In fairness to the previous staff...they may have thought they had seen enough. I can tell you for a fact if they had remained Gray would have stayed at WR. I believe Gray should have stayed at WR (Parrish was the best QB on the roster last season..IMO) I hope Gray makes me look like an idiot.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Brew had it right, Gray had a chance to be special as a receiver. QB? I'm pulling for him. The 2011 team wins more games with Parrish at QB and Gray at receiver. If there had been an open competition Parrish would have won it hands down....but that's why there wasn't. Now in fairness to Gray he hadn't been groomed to be successful last year (IMO) by the previous staff. In fairness to the previous staff...they may have thought they had seen enough. I can tell you for a fact if they had remained Gray would have stayed at WR. I believe Gray should have stayed at WR (Parrish was the best QB on the roster last season..IMO) I hope Gray makes me look like an idiot.
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I could somewhat see this argument if we ran a pro style offense or if we had a running game, but our running game last year without Gray at QB would have been awful. He was/is the best playmaker we've had running the ball since Gary Russell. He had to be QB.

I think you can always play devil's advocate and say that if Brew had played Gray more and never switched him to QB, the 2011 team wins more games.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Brew had it right, Gray had a chance to be special as a receiver. QB? I'm pulling for him. The 2011 team wins more games with Parrish at QB and Gray at receiver. If there had been an open competition Parrish would have won it hands down....but that's why there wasn't. Now in fairness to Gray he hadn't been groomed to be successful last year (IMO) by the previous staff. In fairness to the previous staff...they may have thought they had seen enough. I can tell you for a fact if they had remained Gray would have stayed at WR. I believe Gray should have stayed at WR (Parrish was the best QB on the roster last season..IMO) I hope Gray makes me look like an idiot.
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You should watch Gopher football sometime. What are you basing this Parrish was the best QB on? He never played. We would have been 1-11 at best without Gray last year. He was our only run game.

And to the poster that said our best players are still Brew guys: not as much as there should be. Our best players at RB, TE, probably WR, DE, second best DT (likely Roland), and probably 1 of the safeties are Kill guys. Brew is responsible for some great players, but a team with good depth would not have had this much turnover.
 

Parrish at QB and Gray at receiver. If there had been an open competition Parrish would have won it hands down....
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How do you figure? Where is Parish now? What has he done at the collegiate level? What would have happened to the Run Game w/o Gray.

hat the best football players on this roster are still Brewster recruits.
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Ummm because Kill has had 2 recruiting classes and the 1st was made up of mostly Brew recruits due to Kill honoring all commitments. Football players tend to get better with time meaning that upper class man generally are better. However IF you watch practice, read articles or watched games from last year you would see that we are playing a lot of Kill recruits because they are better.

There was NO accountability under Brew and Michael Carter is a perfect example of this. Brew allowed Carter to walk all over him with Kill at the helm look at his turn around. Not only has he become a better football player but he has become a better student and person under Kill. Brew could land HIGH STAR recruits there is no question but he could not develop them nor did he hold them accountable. From the GPA, classroom attendance, preparation, study, weight room and coaching ability the difference between Brew and Kill is night and day!
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Brew had it right, Gray had a chance to be special as a receiver. QB? I'm pulling for him. The 2011 team wins more games with Parrish at QB and Gray at receiver. If there had been an open competition Parrish would have won it hands down....but that's why there wasn't. Now in fairness to Gray he hadn't been groomed to be successful last year (IMO) by the previous staff. In fairness to the previous staff...they may have thought they had seen enough. I can tell you for a fact if they had remained Gray would have stayed at WR. I believe Gray should have stayed at WR (Parrish was the best QB on the roster last season..IMO) I hope Gray makes me look like an idiot.
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Shortell would have never played if Parrish was ready. He wasn't, and Parrish is gone.

MARQUEIS GRAY HAD THE 5th MOST RUSHING YARDS IN IN THE COUNTRY BY A QUARTERBACK. He's kind of good.
 

Would it be fair to say that Kill has never been a head coach of a team with this much football talent?
If JK cannot recruit the calibre of players that Brewster did then it is possible that talent wise this is the best we will see for awhile unless the JK's coaching cohesion is what it was advertised and = Big Ten wins.
 

wait!what? said:
Would it be fair to say that Kill has never been a head coach of a team with this much football talent?
If JK cannot recruit the calibre of players that Brewster did then it is possible that talent wise this is the best we will see for awhile unless the JK's coaching cohesion is what it was advertised and = Big Ten wins.
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Than why are guys like Gillum, T. Olson, M. Jones, T. Cockran and M Amefula probable starters and guys like Shabazz, Baltazar, Boddy, R. Johnson, J. Harbison, I fruechte, A. McDonald among others likely to see the field if Kill is such a bad talent evaluator.

Come on guys! One of the first things Kill said when he got here was that we lacked talent and speed and in just two classes what have we seen from him talent and speed. Look past the stars and the class rankings and watch the athlete on the field!

Come to a practice and just watch the team speed. I will guarantee that we are going to be markedly better on Defense than we have been in years during this upcoming season. Also, look for a much more balanced offense and much improved O-Line. You really have to see it to believe it there really is that much of a difference. EASY 6 wins this season!
 

JUCOs are probably the linchpin. I overlooked them and if they have on field success that will be a direct correlation to JK's ability to ID and sign talent.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Brew had it right, Gray had a chance to be special as a receiver. QB? I'm pulling for him. The 2011 team wins more games with Parrish at QB and Gray at receiver. If there had been an open competition Parrish would have won it hands down....but that's why there wasn't. Now in fairness to Gray he hadn't been groomed to be successful last year (IMO) by the previous staff. In fairness to the previous staff...they may have thought they had seen enough. I can tell you for a fact if they had remained Gray would have stayed at WR. I believe Gray should have stayed at WR (Parrish was the best QB on the roster last season..IMO) I hope Gray makes me look like an idiot.
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You just made yourself look like an idiot. Gray doesn't have to do anything to accomplish that. Parrish wasn't even good enough to be the backup last year. Either your trolling or you have no idea how to evaluate a football players ability.
 

Wouldn't You like to Know said:
Than why are guys like Gillum, T. Olson, M. Jones, T. Cockran and M Amefula probable starters and guys like Shabazz, Baltazar, Boddy, R. Johnson, J. Harbison, I fruechte, A. McDonald among others likely to see the field if Kill is such a bad talent evaluator.
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T. Olson was a Brewster recruit. Although, to be fair, it's not really accurate to "credit" him to anybody, since he was going to come here even if you or I were the coach.
 


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