How many more wins for Ben to lose the disaster level?

Wins to drop disaster label?

  • 10 - plus another season

    Votes: 7 8.4%

  • 9

    Votes: 1 1.2%

  • 8

    Votes: 3 3.6%

  • 7

    Votes: 5 6.0%

  • 6

    Votes: 8 9.6%

  • 5

    Votes: 19 22.9%

  • 4

    Votes: 18 21.7%

  • 3

    Votes: 5 6.0%

  • 2

    Votes: 4 4.8%

  • He has already earned an extension!

    Votes: 13 15.7%
  • Total voters
    83
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Bad Gopher said:
All those players bailed AFTER Ben was hired. He objectively did not inherit an empty roster. It's a lie.
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Good lord this bit is so tiring and played out. The best players from that team were leaving, probably no matter who was hired. So yeah, they may have been on the roster when Johnson was hired but it is being willfully ignorant to pretend like there was any real path to keeping them here. Outside of hiring Robbins uncle to be an assistant coach I guess.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
"Fact oriented" "All those players bailed AFTER Ben was hired. He objectively did not inherit an empty roster. It's a lie."
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And? Bad Gopher is correct.

You and others will point to the bad players who left, and that Carr and Mashburn were already in the portal and were going to leave anyways, which was likely true.

But then you'll also say nothing about keeping Gabe K, Brandon Johnson, and Liam Robbins, who all could have stayed and helped significantly. And then claim you're 'fact driven' and not 'agenda driven', which is ridiculous.

Being a disaster the first two years was 100% on BJ, no matter how much you try to re-write history.
 

Ben himself told an acquaintance of mine that there were players who we saw as good that he chose not to re recruit. That was his decision. The “empty roster” was not imposed on him, but there was not much there for him to bring forward.

I thought he could tap into past recruiting relationships and bring in better players in that first class than he did. The choice to play the first season with almost all one year transfers was his and frustrating to many of us in year two.

One major difference between hiring an inexperienced coach and one with a head coaching resume is higher probability of experienced players coming with him.

Ben chose a path with regression in year two after not much success in year one. That doesn’t win over casual fans very easily.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And? Bad Gopher is correct.

You and others will point to the bad players who left, and that Carr and Mashburn were already in the portal and were going to leave anyways, which was likely true.

But then you'll also say nothing about keeping Gabe K, Brandon Johnson, and Liam Robbins, who all could have stayed and helped significantly. And then claim you're 'fact driven' and not 'agenda driven', which is ridiculous.

Being a disaster the first two years was 100% on BJ, no matter how much you try to re-write history.
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Bad Gopher made the claim he was fact driven and not agenda driven which I pointed out was a lie based on his previous comment. I never did.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Gach, Johnson, Robbins, Gabe, Ihnen were the players Johnson tried to keep. He went 1 for 5 for various reasons. One including not keeping a coach.

Then again you projected the Gophers to be worse than last year and projected them to win 4-5 B1G games after the non-conference this year. But you're purely fact driven as well.
 
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Bad Gopher said:
All those players bailed AFTER Ben was hired. He objectively did not inherit an empty roster. It's a lie.
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I see you are going to stick to this ridiculous idea the cupboard wasn’t bare.

Carr was leaving no matter what.
The guy who forgot how to shoot was gone to Ames.
Pitino took the only reason for optimism with him.
And the center went when his uncle was canned.

Not even Jordan could have talked them into staying.

Well, maybe he could have, with a little NIL from his athletic company.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
His bit is that Ben should have kept the scraps from the 13th place team in the B1G.
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The scraps of the 14th place team last year have helped us win a lot of games this year (Garcia, Payne, Carrington, JOJ, etc.).
 

To answer the main question on this board, it kind of depends.

Tim Brewster was a disaster despite going to a bowl game in year 2.

So to answer the question you're getting it:
  • If we go to the NCAA tournament this year, he's officially not a disaster.
  • If we go to the NIT this year and the NCAA next year, officially not a disaster.
  • If we go to the NIT this year and we are decent but still not an NCAA team next year, I think reasonable people can disagree, but I would put him in the more disaster than not disaster bucket.
  • If we finish this year poorly and don't improve next year, he's a disaster.
  • If we finish this year decent but have a bad year next year, he's a disaster.

As far as what I think will happen? I think we probably finish at 8-10 in conference this year (and Ben should be commended for that improvement) and I think Ben's job should come down to making the NCAA tournament next year. And I like our odds.
 




I think the total record does matter. If you get an "F" on the first test of the school year, that stays on your record and impacts your final grade.

on the roster issue - nothing was stopping Johnson from going to the portal and bringing in better players for year one. If Holy Man is accurate, Johnson made a choice to bring in players who would only be here for one year. that was his choice and he has to live with the results.

Look - I like Johnson as a person and I hope he succeeds. but he doesn't get a mulligan for the 1st two years.

like it or not, we live in an age of instant communication and instant opinion. and in sports, a lot of people want instant results. I supported the decision to get rid of Rich Pitino - but Pitino has a top-25 team at New Mexico built largely on portal transfers. He chose a different route. (I could ask why he couldn't do the same thing at MN, but that would be a different discussion altogether....)
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
To answer the main question on this board, it kind of depends.

Tim Brewster was a disaster despite going to a bowl game in year 2.

So to answer the question you're getting it:
  • If we go to the NCAA tournament this year, he's officially not a disaster.
  • If we go to the NIT this year and the NCAA next year, officially not a disaster.
  • If we go to the NIT this year and we are decent but still not an NCAA team next year, I think reasonable people can disagree, but I would put him in the more disaster than not disaster bucket.
  • If we finish this year poorly and don't improve next year, he's a disaster.
  • If we finish this year decent but have a bad year next year, he's a disaster.

As far as what I think will happen? I think we probably finish at 8-10 in conference this year (and Ben should be commended for that improvement) and I think Ben's job should come down to making the NCAA tournament next year. And I like our odds.
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not disputing anything you say here.

but just want to make the point that it -IMHO - really shouldn't be a binary situation (disaster/not a disaster). there is a reason most classes grade on a curve and assign letter grades A to F or numerical grades 0 to 100.

in my book Johnson gets a D+ in year one and a D- in year two. But he can bring up the GPA by earning better grades going forward. right now this season is looking like a C+ to B-. if he aces the final exam, might even get up to a B+. (have to get to some post-season play for an A)
 

TheRealUncleRico said:
Don’t give up on JOJ yet. Last year he was surprisingly the most big ten ready freshman and this year has added a little bit of an outside game. He needs to improve at the 3 and keep the energy consistent but can fill in admirably at the 4 when needed. If he can keep his motor running on high I see him being the poor man’s version of Jordan Murphy in a year or two
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Agree with this, but where he really needs to improve is on the defensive end. He gets out of position or misses a rotation too many times. He'll play more once he figures that end out.
 

CBJ is NOT a disaster, and he is a very good in-game coach. This team has gotten to the level of being able to play with any team in a one possession game on any given night. In previous years due to many factors discussed already, MN would typically have only 1-2 really great games where they were engaged, defending, and making shots. With such a thin bench then, that level of play wasn't sustainable consistently , and opposing coaches could easily adjust to eliminate the hot hand, etc.

Now that MN has a bench, and the players seem to be embracing their roles, the Gophers have the ability to mix things up and play at a higher level more regularly. The trajectory is very positive, but this team WILL have bad nights where they look disjointed and lay an egg. Haters will hate, but when coaching young kids that is going to happen. (Examples of inconsistency: NW lost by 30 to Illinois, beat Purdue, and then beat OSU by 25).

Regardless of the outcome of the next couple road games--Iowa/Purdue, I just want to see a team that plays hard, defends, and takes good shots. They shouldn't get run off the court. Stealing a game on the road would be fantastic. Hopefully, MN has a "big upset" coming like most Gopher competitive years (Iowa/Garza, #1 Indiana/Rodney Williams, Purdue 2x/Trevion,Matt Haarms).

After returning from the 2 game road stint, Minnesota's schedule is very favorable for a strong finish with 4 of last 7 (plus BTN tourney) at home against beatable teams. MN has yet to play its best basketball, and that's exciting! Steal a road game here or there, and we are right in the mix. Go Gophers!
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The scraps of the 14th place team last year have helped us win a lot of games this year (Garcia, Payne, Carrington, JOJ, etc.).
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Those guys aren't "scraps". Three of the four were true freshman with lots of upside. You can build around those players as we are seeing this year.

There was no "young" talent remaining on the Gophers roster when Johnson was hired. Mashburn was the only HS player worth a damn that Pitino brought in his final two recruiting classes....and he was already gone. There was almost no way to avoid a total rebuild with the scraps remaining (that weren't already in the portal or incredibly likely to transfer regardless) from Pitino's final team.
 

GFBfan said:
Agree with this, but where he really needs to improve is on the defensive end. He gets out of position or misses a rotation too many times. He'll play more once he figures that end out.
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Agreed.

He needs to find a way to help his team when the ball isn’t in his hands - by moving, rebounding, becoming a junk yard dog kind of player.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I think the total record does matter. If you get an "F" on the first test of the school year, that stays on your record and impacts your final grade.

on the roster issue - nothing was stopping Johnson from going to the portal and bringing in better players for year one. If Holy Man is accurate, Johnson made a choice to bring in players who would only be here for one year. that was his choice and he has to live with the results.

Look - I like Johnson as a person and I hope he succeeds. but he doesn't get a mulligan for the 1st two years.

like it or not, we live in an age of instant communication and instant opinion. and in sports, a lot of people want instant results. I supported the decision to get rid of Rich Pitino - but Pitino has a top-25 team at New Mexico built largely on portal transfers. He chose a different route. (I could ask why he couldn't do the same thing at MN, but that would be a different discussion altogether....)
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A school test is not an accurate example.

An accurate example is a business...when the first 2 years are all startup stuff, not even starting sales yet.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
I mean if you're going to call out people for lying you shouldn't lie either. Mashburn, Carr, and Omersa were in the portal before Ben was hired.
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To your corners, Boys! No one has a motivation to lie about something over which they have no control. But we can have a different take on the definition of an empty roster. If almost the entire roster leaves when a new coach is hired, to me that’s the definition of an empty roster. It makes no difference if the players leave BEFORE the new coach is hired or after. The result is still the same.
 

Bobek said:
To your corners, Boys! No one has a motivation to lie about something over which they have no control. But we can have a different take on the definition of an empty roster. If almost the entire roster leaves when a new coach is hired, to me that’s the definition of an empty roster. It makes no difference if the players leave BEFORE the new coach is hired or after. The result is still the same.
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Pay heed to the Bobek, for he is wise.
 

And if the new business is making a profit...why obsess over the first 2 years of startup? Especially when there's no debt. The startup is all over.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And? Bad Gopher is correct.

You and others will point to the bad players who left, and that Carr and Mashburn were already in the portal and were going to leave anyways, which was likely true.

But then you'll also say nothing about keeping Gabe K, Brandon Johnson, and Liam Robbins, who all could have stayed and helped significantly. And then claim you're 'fact driven' and not 'agenda driven', which is ridiculous.

Being a disaster the first two years was 100% on BJ, no matter how much you try to re-write history.
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Liam followed his uncle.
 

Otis said:
Further proof that OSU’s gain was really Minnesota’s!

Question: what does last year’s 14th ranked B1G basketball team have in common with this year’s?

Jamison Battle
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Sad for Battle but true.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
As far as what I think will happen? I think we probably finish at 8-10 in conference this year (and Ben should be commended for that improvement) and I think Ben's job should come down to making the NCAA tournament next year. And I like our odds.
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I'm assuming you mean 8th through 10th place. Yes? Or, do you mean 8, 9, or 10 wins? Can't have an 8-10 conference record of course.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I have a hard time thinking that Ben would give up on JOJ but I don't think it's so unlikely that JOJ might give up on the team and decide to transfer in hopes of a bigger role. I think that would just make him a fairly typical college basketball player these days.
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I definitely agree with that, I think he is the most likely to transfer at this point. Im hoping he can work out of this recent funk and earn back some minutes and stick with it.
 

Just sayin’ : B1G NOW discussion moments ago, “Who do you like for coach of the year?” 4th name mentioned (after Painter, Underwood, and Collins), none other than Ben Johnson .
 

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