Email from Kaler (aka Mr. Potter)

[GopherinPhilly]

It has been mostly focused on people painting themselves as under-appreciated victims. I mean, really, all these ticket threads should be clumped together and thrown into the "off-topic" board as they have very little to do with football and more to do with human interest sob stories or hackneyed economic theory.

^^^^This.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

I'd rather watch us win a B1G championship from the seats I've sat in for years. Just because Norwood jacked up the prices, doesn't mean we are suddenly going to be competing for championships on a yearly basis. If it were that easy, fanbases would be throwing money around like T-Pain.

Have you seen the facilities at other schools...fanbases are throwing money around like T-Pain.

 

[Iceland12]

Have you seen the facilities at other schools...fanbases are throwing money around like T-Pain.

Reading the threads, it seems that after you got your renewal e-mail you never had even had a moment where you were surprised by the amount and time frame of the e-mail. You've talked about your education background and your business experience and you weren't surprised by the scale of the increase? You read about what it was gonna cost you to stay in those seats at TCF and you never even had a moment when you said to yourself "it's going to cost me HOW much in 2017!"

We're talking to the Ticket Office Manager next week and hope to decide what to do then, but you honestly said "Good. It's about time. Where's my checkbook?"

Really?

 

[Iceland12]

I agree with this sentiment, but it's an obviously flawed choice. I do think higher prices will result in more money for the program which "should" lead to a more successful program, but its not guaranteed. I think it will be interesting to see if this new pricing structure works and the football team keeps building on its recent success, if these ship-jumpers will be excited about the progress. I think a rift will materialize between those who are more concerned about their personal experience, and those who truly wish for the collective best for the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers.

This rift is already starting...the people (not every single one, but many) who are complaining the most have had very little to say about how this price increase may help/hurt the team. It has been mostly focused on people painting themselves as under-appreciated victims. I mean, really, all these ticket threads should be clumped together and thrown into the "off-topic" board as they have very little to do with football and more to do with human interest sob stories or hackneyed economic theory.

Okay if we're going to generalize. It seems like many, but not all, of the people such as yourself, who aren't going to spend a dime on the Scholarship Gift charges, or even Student Tickets are constantly telling everybody else to "shut-up and spend your money so I can leech off it and sit at home and watch our Gophers get better."

Sob stories versus the demands of welfare queens. It's made-up the contents of a lot of these threads then?

 

[GopherinPhilly]

Reading the threads, it seems that after you got your renewal e-mail you never had even had a moment where you were surprised by the amount and time frame of the e-mail. You've talked about your education background and your business experience and you weren't surprised by the scale of the increase? You read about what it was gonna cost you to stay in those seats at TCF and you never even had a moment when you said to yourself "it's going to cost me HOW much in 2017!"

We're talking to the Ticket Office Manager next week and hope to decide what to do then, but you honestly said "Good. It's about time. Where's my checkbook?"

Really?

I know there are like 5 different threads on this topic, so I'll repeat myself here. My immediate response was "about time." I have stated that if I was running this I would not have announced the 2016 and 2017 numbers because it takes away flexibility in the coming couple of years but the prices and donation levels seem about right. I also expect that other teams will be making similar announcements in the coming year...the new cost of student athletes for big 5 programs has gone up. Pay for play, stipends, food service, training and practice facilities needed to compete is adding big time costs. Have to pay for it somehow.

A couple other things I might have done is do what places like NE does where your seat donation level is locked in for life if you retain your tickets every year. So the donation levels you see at NE are for new purchases, not for existing fans who may have had their seats for 40 years.

Might be a good idea for the U to do that in 2017 and state that if you maintain your season tickets after 2017, your seat license will not go up. And like NE, seats can't be passed on to family or transferred. When you die, I think your kids can get your seats but they have to lock in the current donation levels (not 100% on this...lived in NE in the 90s and attended lots of games).

As for the fans that are taking this personally or those that feel betrayed...I can't help them. Its emotion that can't be managed by a big corporation like the U athletics. My Grandma never went back to McDonalds after they raised the price of ice cream cones to $.35 from a quarter. She felt betrayed by them. Go figure...people attach a lot of personal crap to things in their lives they can't control and then get hurt when it changes. Fandom, consumerism and celebrity has a long list of these "betrayals." In the end, this is about money and sometimes folks can't afford what they want...does that mean the price should be lower? Not if others will pay what is being asked.

In 5 years this has the potential to look like genius or folly or somewhere in between. I like the risk reward on this and I also think there are other factors at play. Might be the need for the revenue to get bonds approved for the facilities, might be that several of the corporate donors agreed to buy thousands of top seats as part of their donation and the U is confident they can sell the most expensive seats regardless. Sucks for some fans...but then go to a Viking, Twolve or Wild game and tell me its any different. Only baseball has any family value left and its just barely and only because they play 81 home games (and then not in NYC).

Time is going to tell us if this is a good move or not.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

My initial reaction was why aren't they worrying about selling thousands of empty seats. Then I realized that they did this now because they aren't selling those seats.

Our group is keeping seats for one more year. If they don't win the West, we're gone. I expect to get what I pay for, or it's not worth the money.

 

[Iceland12]

I know there are like 5 different threads on this topic, so I'll repeat myself here. My immediate response was "about time." I have stated that if I was running this I would not have announced the 2016 and 2017 numbers because it takes away flexibility in the coming couple of years but the prices and donation levels seem about right. I also expect that other teams will be making similar announcements in the coming year...the new cost of student athletes for big 5 programs has gone up. Pay for play, stipends, food service, training and practice facilities needed to compete is adding big time costs. Have to pay for it somehow.

A couple other things I might have done is do what places like NE does where your seat donation level is locked in for life if you retain your tickets every year. So the donation levels you see at NE are for new purchases, not for existing fans who may have had their seats for 40 years.

Might be a good idea for the U to do that in 2017 and state that if you maintain your season tickets after 2017, your seat license will not go up. And like NE, seats can't be passed on to family or transferred. When you die, I think your kids can get your seats but they have to lock in the current donation levels (not 100% on this...lived in NE in the 90s and attended lots of games).

As for the fans that are taking this personally or those that feel betrayed...I can't help them. Its emotion that can't be managed by a big corporation like the U athletics. My Grandma never went back to McDonalds after they raised the price of ice cream cones to $.35 from a quarter. She felt betrayed by them. Go figure...people attach a lot of personal crap to things in their lives they can't control and then get hurt when it changes. Fandom, consumerism and celebrity has a long list of these "betrayals." In the end, this is about money and sometimes folks can't afford what they want...does that mean the price should be lower? Not if others will pay what is being asked.

In 5 years this has the potential to look like genius or folly or somewhere in between. I like the risk reward on this and I also think there are other factors at play. Might be the need for the revenue to get bonds approved for the facilities, might be that several of the corporate donors agreed to buy thousands of top seats as part of their donation and the U is confident they can sell the most expensive seats regardless. Sucks for some fans...but then go to a Viking, Twolve or Wild game and tell me its any different. Only baseball has any family value left and its just barely and only because they play 81 home games (and then not in NYC).

All of that is reasonable and well stated IMHO.

The "seat license part" seemed very logical. Wonder if it was discussed and fell apart on "deductibility" issues or not. Matter of fact, as for repeating oneself, it's only the scale and timing I've had trouble with myself, certainly not the need for a substantial increase in revenue. On here, it's the "welfare queens" that irritate. "Spend YOUR Money!" they scream as they tightly hold onto their own.

The "McDonalds" analogy though, may be a little misleading. The University spends a lot of time, effort AND money telling people they are "your Gophers". They induct past Gophers into Halls of Fame or retire their jerseys. They depend on long held traditions, songs, chants, uniform colors etc. to bind people emotionally to the school. All their requests for money include, both literally and figuratively, appeals to the needs of "your school".

If it was just a business/entertainment decision for those people and many others, the Season Ticket base may have fallen into single digits for most of the last 40 years or so.

To then expect those same people to think of increases from 150 to 300% in the same context of a hamburger going up in price?

Yeah, that really doesn't work.

 

[GopherHomer]

Okay if we're going to generalize. It seems like many, but not all, of the people such as yourself, who aren't going to spend a dime on the Scholarship Gift charges, or even Student Tickets are constantly telling everybody else to "shut-up and spend your money so I can leech off it and sit at home and watch our Gophers get better."

Sob stories versus the demands of welfare queens. It's made-up the contents of a lot of these threads then?

Actually - no that's not what I want out of you. I don't care if you spend your money...the "shutting up" part would be nice, though. Maybe you're right, and maybe the Gophers should just have private viewings for all the wealthy people that have donated throughout the years.

Just remember if/when you leave, you will be easily replaced. So, by "welfare queens" are you being homophobic, anti-woman, or a little bit of both?

 

[Iceland12]

Actually - no that's not what I want out of you. I don't care if you spend your money...the "shutting up" part would be nice, though. Maybe you're right, and maybe the Gophers should just have private viewings for all the wealthy people that have donated throughout the years.

Just remember if/when you leave, you will be easily replaced. So, by "welfare queens" are you being homophobic, anti-woman, or a little bit of both?

Touched a nerve huh? Not that easy being a troll is it? Talk about painting oneself as a victim..
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[GopherHomer]

Touched a nerve huh? Not that easy being a troll is it? Talk about painting oneself as a victim..
<img id="ums_img_tooltip" class="UMSRatingIcon">

Oh the great rhetorical device of saying, "You mad, Bro?" Clever.

In the end, we're really not that different. The prime seats now have a very steep price tag for access. I won't be sitting there because I can't afford it (which I evidently should feel shame for), and you won't be sitting there because you refuse to based on principle. So we're both basically hoping for someone else to pick up the bill...unless you hope the system fails proving that your "principles" are more important than the team you supposedly support.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

All of that is reasonable and well stated IMHO.

The "seat license part" seemed very logical. Wonder if it was discussed and fell apart on "deductibility" issues or not. Matter of fact, as for repeating oneself, it's only the scale and timing I've had trouble with myself, certainly not the need for a substantial increase in revenue. On here, it's the "welfare queens" that irritate. "Spend YOUR Money!" they scream as they tightly hold onto their own.

The "McDonalds" analogy though, may be a little misleading. The University spends a lot of time, effort AND money telling people they are "your Gophers". They induct past Gophers into Halls of Fame or retire their jerseys. They depend on long held traditions, songs, chants, uniform colors etc. to bind people emotionally to the school. All their requests for money include, both literally and figuratively, appeals to the needs of "your school".

If it was just a business/entertainment decision for those people and many others, the Season Ticket base may have fallen into single digits for most of the last 40 years or so.

To then expect those same people to think of increases from 150 to 300% in the same context of a hamburger going up in price?

Yeah, that really doesn't work.

Marketing, whether it be corporate jingles or school songs is still marketing. The personalization of what isn't personal, whether it be the price of an ice cream cone or a seat at a football game is going to lead to disallusionment and resentment more times than not. And if you would have asked my Grandmother what was more important, her ability to buy ice cream cones for her grandbabies or for your or me to sit and watch a football game, she would have cackled at you and shook here head. Its just football.

 

[GopherHomer]

My initial reaction was why aren't they worrying about selling thousands of empty seats. Then I realized that they did this now because they aren't selling those seats.

Our group is keeping seats for one more year. If they don't win the West, we're gone. I expect to get what I pay for, or it's not worth the money.

Oh no, not that. Anything but that. So much of our fanbase is summed up perfectly in that post. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

Touched a nerve huh? Not that easy being a troll is it? Talk about painting oneself as a victim..
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Don't worry Ice, my alter ego doesn't like me much either. I'm just glad someone is reading my posts even if it is just me.

 

[Iceland12]

Marketing, whether it be corporate jingles or school songs is still marketing. The personalization of what isn't personal, whether it be the price of an ice cream cone or a seat at a football game is going to lead to disallusionment and resentment more times than not. And if you would have asked my Grandmother what was more important, her ability to buy ice cream cones for her grandbabies or for your or me to sit and watch a football game, she would have said you were the crazy one.

Didn't know your Grandma but it's hard to believe she'd think spending an extra 10 cents on an ice-cream cone was the equivalent of spending an extra $300 to $3000 on tickets. If she saw the checks you've written for tickets, she probably did think you were crazy for spending it though.

Your parents should have given Grandma an extra buck for those long ago missed ice cream cones. Talk about bringing in "sob stories" and "personal issues". If Grandma couldn't get that extra coin or too, and thought that was the same as ticket money then yes, she may have been crazy. Or just trying to defend her Grandson's horrible analogy.

Can't speak to your family stories of disfunction.

 

[Iceland12]

Oh no, not that. Anything but that. So much of our fanbase is summed up perfectly in that post. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!

You think that describes the people who have been footing the bill for a football team that hasn't won 6 Big Ten games since 1973!. A team that wasn't won a Big Ten title since 1967 or been in a New Year's Bowl since 1962? That's a fan base that DEMAND'S SATISFACTION"? Gees..

You should go back to being a reasonable, rational poster. You were good at that. As a troll, your coming off more as an idiot than an irritant.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

Marketing, whether it be corporate jingles or school songs is still marketing. The personalization of what isn't personal, whether it be the price of an ice cream cone or a seat at a football game is going to lead to disallusionment and resentment more times than not. And if you would have asked my Grandmother what was more important, her ability to buy ice cream cones for her grandbabies or for your or me to sit and watch a football game, she would have cackled at you and shook here head. Its just football.

It's just football, but for lots of people, this is personal. I'm not in this boat, I'm just a guy who loves the Gophers and college football. I get the people who had made Gopher Saturdays a part of their family tradition who are hurt by this. If you lose your home, it's just business for the bank to take it back, but for the family that's forced to move, you bet your ass it's personal. And no, it's not even remotely the same thing, but you get the point.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

Oh no, not that. Anything but that. So much of our fanbase is summed up perfectly in that post. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!

That's right. The U has hundreds of people just lining up to buy our seats. Of course, that doesn't exactly explain while there are seats in our row that have gone unsold for every game except Iowa this year. And no, they aren't owned by people who aren't showing up. You can buy them directly through gophersports.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Oh no, not that. Anything but that. So much of our fanbase is summed up perfectly in that post. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!

Did you just become a Gopher fan in the past year or two? If all these fans were really in this situation, they would have dropped their season tickets years and even decades ago.

 

[saintpaulguy]

Oh the great rhetorical device of saying, "You mad, Bro?" Clever.

In the end, we're really not that different. The prime seats now have a very steep price tag for access. I won't be sitting there because I can't afford it (which I evidently should feel shame for), and you won't be sitting there because you refuse to based on principle. So we're both basically hoping for someone else to pick up the bill...unless you hope the system fails proving that your "principles" are more important than the team you supposedly support.

I say there is a part of me, yes, that hopes this shows to be an overreach.

Signed Francisco d'Anconia

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

The bottom line is that the price rise is too steep and in too short a time span, insults the fan base - especially those who have stuck with a team not winning a title in half a century or so, and is bad business as there is no great demand for tickets now, even after a good season. Plus the area has five pro teams overlapping with U football.

 

[tikited]

The bottom line is that the price rise is too steep and in too short a time span, insults the fan base - especially those who have stuck with a team not winning a title in half a century or so, and is bad business as there is no great demand for tickets now, even after a good season. Plus the area has five pro teams overlapping with U football.

Agree 100%. There isn't one aspect of this that can be considered a smart move.

 

[Maximus]

The bottom line is that the price rise is too steep and in too short a time span, insults the fan base - especially those who have stuck with a team not winning a title in half a century or so, and is bad business as there is no great demand for tickets now, even after a good season. Plus the area has five pro teams overlapping with U football.

Maybe you're the fool for sticking with a team that hasn't won a title in half a century? God forbid the U try to change that.

 

[tikited]

Maybe you're the fool for sticking with a team that hasn't won a title in half a century? God forbid the U try to change that.

Once again you seem to ignore the part where most here are complaining about the short time span/massive increases. I don't remember anyone saying that any increase is bad.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Oh no, not that. Anything but that. So much of our fanbase is summed up perfectly in that post. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!

If the U had a demanding fanbase, there would be no fans in their seats after not winning our conference since 1967. Nor would we tolerate losing 11 times in a row to our biggest rival. Those streaks are insane.

If you want to say we have been paying for White Castle and getting what we paid for, that's fine. However, if we are going to get charged for steak, I better not end up with another White Castle slider on my plate.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Talking to family from North Carolina who has wolf pack season tickets. They did a 10 year commitment per seat. They figured what they needed over 10 years and you have ten years to pay off the deductible license.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

In the end, everyone has to assess their own budget, and decide what's important to them. I dropped about 11 grand remodeling my house a couple of years ago. I suppose I did not HAVE to do it, but it had tangible benefits (energy efficiency, improved resale value) and intangible benefits (house looks nicer).

I know families that spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year because they have multiple kids in youth hockey, and they shell out for ice time, equipment, and travel to tournaments. That is a choice they make, because it's important to them - just like people make a choice to buy Gopher tix and pay the extra fees, because it's important to them. I would never dream of trying to tell someone else how to spend their money - and I don't want anyone trying to tell me how to spend my money.

Disclaimer: I do not have Gopher Season tickets, and I do not contribute to the U scholarship fund. Why - I'm cheap, and I make about 29,000 a year while paying my bills and trying to put money away for retirement. (not to mention the $3500 I dropped this year on medical bills not covered by insurance, but that's another story.)

 

[GopherinPhilly]

Didn't know your Grandma but it's hard to believe she'd think spending an extra 10 cents on an ice-cream cone was the equivalent of spending an extra $300 to $3000 on tickets. If she saw the checks you've written for tickets, she probably did think you were crazy for spending it though.

Your parents should have given Grandma an extra buck for those long ago missed ice cream cones. Talk about bringing in "sob stories" and "personal issues". If Grandma couldn't get that extra coin or too, and thought that was the same as ticket money then yes, she may have been crazy. Or just trying to defend her Grandson's horrible analogy.

Can't speak to your family stories of disfunction.

The analogy is about taking something that isn't personal and making it so and then being outraged about it. Whether its 10 cents or $500 bucks, it is the same kind of crazy.

And you might want to be a bit more restrained in speaking about someone elses family...especially if you don't know that person. Because that is actually personal.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

You think that describes the people who have been footing the bill

What imaginary bill have they been footing? People donate as a choice. They buy tickets and attend games as a choice. They got whatever joy, happiness or satisfaction from their spending, cheering, etc. that they were owed.

You can buy a car, you can buy a house, you can buy a couch and own it...you can't buy your college football team. The money spent does not come with a title or papers, so if you did it for any reason other than enjoyment, you are a fool. Regardless of how you feel about your spending, nobody owes any of those people anything. Next year the price of your enjoyment goes up, and again the year after, and so on. Partake, take a pass, do whatever, nobody cares, just for the love of all that is holy, stop pissing and moaning about it and acting like you were robbed of something.

 

[Section209]

I would never dream of trying to tell someone else how to spend their money - and I don't want anyone trying to tell me how to spend my money.

Disclaimer: I do not have Gopher Season tickets, and I do not contribute to the U scholarship fund.

You're dead on and I appreciate your comment and the honesty. The people voicing complaints about the pricing hikes have been told they're whining, have hurt feelings, are cheap, just don't care enough about the team, and on and on. And a fair amount (not all) of that criticism is coming from people who don't have season tickets and in some cases don't even live within a two hour flight of Minnesota. No impact to them or skin in the game, yet they have no problem telling those of us who are paying these fees what our commitment level should be and how much of our money we should be willing to part with.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

You're dead on and I appreciate your comment and the honesty. The people voicing complaints about the pricing hikes have been told they're whining, have hurt feelings, are cheap, just don't care enough about the team, and on and on. And a fair amount (not all) of that criticism is coming from people who don't have season tickets and in some cases don't even live within a two hour flight of Minnesota. No impact to them or skin in the game, yet they have no problem telling those of us who are paying these fees what our commitment level should be and how much of our money we should be willing to part with.

Agreed. I have very little patience for people who aren't paying for season tickets telling other people why its their duty to pay more for season tickets. Its like when someone who pays no income tax wants to talk about other people paying their "fair share".