doogie was dead on with d'antonio v brew

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thailleagle said:
Do you think Michigan State fans feel those Notre Dame wins mean nothing? Becuz their board was pretty damn happy last Saturday. Or what about beating Michigan? Have you ever been outside of Gopherhole & seen the reaction that happens between State fans & Mich fans when they play? Do you think they care or look that deep into the "state" of the other team?

So lets say Wisconsin or Iowa bombs this season...is a victory against them less sweeter? Do you think Gopher fans were upset that they beat an "average" Hawkeye team in 2006? You think South Dakota cared that they beat a "down" Minnesota or do you think they were ecstatic about their victory against a Big Ten team? And if USD beat us & brushed it off because we're not the 2003 or 1999 team then what does that tell you about the perception of Minnesota then?

Seriously it's like some of you want the Gophers to go 11-0 while beating nothing but Top 25 teams before you're satisfied...
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Your reasoning makes absolutely zero sense. Of course those wins matter and you want to beat yoru rivals, but you don't think those accomplishments mean less and less when those teams are lousy?

Your argument is that because MSU beat Michigan and Notre Dame, he is a fantastic coach.

Unless of course you think that Brewster's wins over Purdue would have been as significant as Mason's over a Drew Brees led Purdue (if they existed)?

It's good to beat rivals, it is one of the most fun things about college football, but I personally didn't think that Mason magically had great seasons in 2006 (OK Iowa Team). How good the program is that you are defeating is obviously a major factor in how significant that win is (ask Iowa fans which game was more memorable last season Penn St. or MN).
 

He has had one staff turnover since he took over the Job at MSU. Consistency matters, imo.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Your reasoning makes absolutely zero sense. Of course those wins matter and you want to beat yoru rivals, but you don't think those accomplishments mean less and less when those teams are lousy?

Your argument is that because MSU beat Michigan and Notre Dame, he is a fantastic coach.

Unless of course you think that Brewster's wins over Purdue would have been as significant as Mason's over a Drew Brees led Purdue (if they existed)?

It's good to beat rivals, it is one of the most fun things about college football, but I personally didn't think that Mason magically had great seasons in 2006 (OK Iowa Team). How good the program is that you are defeating is obviously a major factor in how significant that win is (ask Iowa fans which game was more memorable last season Penn St. or MN).
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My argument is that Dantonio is better then Brewster...& that what a Gopher fan considers a "lousy" win against Michigan or Notre Dame a MSU fan doesn't...
 

I love Dantonio, and a coach to the south that shall not be named. Those are my kind of coaches. But alas, they are there. And quite frankly they both have alot to prove yet. The comparison while interesting means nothing except they are different. At some point both will have moved on because they retired, found a better paying gig, or were fired. Just like Brewster.
 



Facts

In 2006, Michigan State ended up being 4-8 and Minnesota ended up being 6-6.

In 2010, D'Antonio's record is 25-17 (.595) and Brewster's is 15-26 (.366).

D'Antonio is 3-0 in 2010 and Brewster is 1-2.

I do not see any progress under Brewster's tenure.
 

Comparison is natural

"I never understand why people constantly compare Dantonio to Brewster."

I respectfully disagree. I think it's completely fair to compare coaches when they come into the same conference at the same time. Dantonio and Brew were brought into the Big Ten at the same time to upgrade the programs they inherited. That's about as straight forward of a comparison as you can get. Using all tangible measures, it's pretty clear to this point the only area where Brew has the edge on Dantonio is head-to-head (1-0).

To me, comparing Brew to Dantonio is as natural as comparing (on the basketball side) Tubby to Lickliter (major failure at Iowa) and Beilein (good start at Big Blue, but starting to get some heat). Those three all came in to the Big Ten at the same time, and so far it's looking pretty good for Minnesota, though I'm not ready to count out Beilein yet if he can survive what likely will be a lean year or two. He has a proven track record as a head coach at multiple schools, so I don't think Michigan is as likely to give up on him as Minnesota will be to give up on a coach (Brew) with no previous head coaching/coordinator experience.
 


Formo said:
I don't know how this is even a debate. IMO, Dantonio and MSU > Brew and Minnesota. Even though we pulled one out from underneath them last year.
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I don't know where this perception comes from. Over the last decade Minnesota has been the better program. It really hasn't even been close.

Dantonio is a very good coach. But he's coaching a team that has been reliably less competitive than Minnesota over the last decade or so.
 



scools12 said:
but Brewster has a talented but young defense that will only get better and be a top 4 unit next year in the B10 when we have our breakout year.

what does D'Antonio have? Oh yea, signature wins and in his 2nd year at Michigan St coached his team to a New Year's Day game.
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I am impressed with Michigan State this year. This may be their best team in a while. Lots of talent. He has been recruiting better lately. They could surprise people in the Big Ten. Can they maintain consistency throughout the conference play, that is the key for them.
 

The only way this is a valid comparison is if you make two pretty huge leaps:

1) That Maturi should've made the decision to fire Mason immediately after the season. In hindsight, it's obvious, but I don't know how he could've done so at the time. Having the vacancy be this immediate is the only way we could've been in play for Dantonio.

2) Given #1, proof that Dantonio had any interest whatsoever in coming here. Since he grew up in OH, and has spent nearly the entirety of his coaching career in OH or MI, I would call that very doubtful. I think it's safe to say that MSU/Mich/OSU were about the only jobs that would have pulled him away from Cincinnati.

Given the extremely low likelihood of the former, and even lower likelihood of the latter, the Dantonio/Brewster debate is moot. It's pretty much like saying, "Why didn't Minnesota hire Nick Saban? We'd be a lot better off."

All it proves is that, at this point, MSU made a better hire to fit its program, recruiting, personnel, fanbase, etc. than Minnesota did.
 

"Over the last decade Minnesota has been the better program. It really hasn't even been close."

I'll agree with you on the first sentence, but I think it's quite a bit of hyperbole to say "It hasn't even been close." I'd give the Gophers a slight edge because of head-to-head and a couple more bowl wins/appearances, but that's about it. Certainly, MSU challenged itself much more outside of the Big Ten than Minnesota did under Mason. To his credit, Brew is changing that.

Since 2000 Season (not including results so far this season)
Minnesota 62-62 overall, Michigan State 60-62 overall
Michigan State 32-48 in Big Ten, Minnesota 30-50 in Big Ten
Minnesota leads head-to-head 4-2.
Minnesota 3-5 in bowl games, Michigan State 1-4 in bowl games

Edge Gophers, but I don't see a significant gap between the two programs over the last 10 years. Over the last 10 seasons, both teams' numbers fit to a "T" the definition of a middlin' Big Ten program. That's why I think it's fair to compare Brew vs. Dantonio. They arrived at the same time, and neither program is of Ohio State or Penn State ilk.
 

People probably should not start threads with the words "Dantonio" and "dead"


At least not this week
 


dpodoll68 said:
The only way this is a valid comparison is if you make two pretty huge leaps:
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It's all pretty meaningless. Whenever you hire a coach, someone else can say after the fact "This coach turned out to be better." Doesn't mean a thing.
 

Three pages of a pointless debate. It's like ripping the Timberwolves for not taking Evan Turner this year with their first pick.
 


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