Doogie: New U leaders taking notice of Tubby's recruiting misses

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"Bottom line: the pressure is on Smith big-time to produce in the next two years. If he doesn't, the Shaka Smart-to-Minnesota rumors will begin in earnest."

Wasn't the buyout for Tubby lowered for the next two years?
 

station19 said:
"Bottom line: the pressure is on Smith big-time to produce in the next two years. If he doesn't, the Shaka Smart-to-Minnesota rumors will begin in earnest."

Wasn't the buyout for Tubby lowered for the next two years?
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That is what I thought too, 19.

Bleed and GW will straighten us out.
 

station19 said:
"Bottom line: the pressure is on Smith big-time to produce in the next two years. If he doesn't, the Shaka Smart-to-Minnesota rumors will begin in earnest."

Wasn't the buyout for Tubby lowered for the next two years?
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No - it was increased to a stated $2.5 million. It effectively winds up being more because of unique 90-day written notice and no firing during the season clauses.

In addition, unlike most contracts, Smith's buyout doesn't decrease much over time. Based on the structure of the contract, it should be $2.5 million for the next 3 to 4 years, then might be* reduced (determined via calculation, but with a cap of $2.5 million) to about $2.2 million for the final 1 to 2 years.

Remember, if Smith simply reaches the Sweet 16 one time in the next 5 years, the contract moves from a 5 year deal to a 6 year deal (automatic one-year extension given).

Now is not the time to be having 'internal meetings' about concerns, if there is validity to that comment. Those meetings should have been done prior to handing over the house.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
No - it was increased to a stated $2.5 million. It effectively winds up being more because of unique 90-day written notice and no firing during the season clauses.

In addition, unlike most contracts, Smith's buyout doesn't decrease much over time. Based on the structure of the contract, it should be $2.5 million for the next 3 to 4 years, then might be* reduced (determined via calculation, but with a cap of $2.5 million) to about $2.2 million for the final 1 to 2 years.

Remember, if Smith simply reaches the Sweet 16 one time in the next 5 years, the contract moves from a 5 year deal to a 6 year deal (automatic one-year extension given).

Now is not the time to be having 'internal meetings' about concerns, if there is validity to that comment. Those meetings should have been done prior to handing over the house.
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Completely agree...Got mixed feelings on this...First, his recruiting has always been questioned, but he is a winner. His style is not for all the players. Also, MN has to build a better winning rep AND get stable recruits who are not head cases. Smith has had recruiting success, White, Williams and Mwbake (sp) to name a few (and I am not one hwo blames him for White's problems), but a few coming up are nationally noticed and he is going against the big boys for them (Duke, MS, Kansas will be in the mix as well I am sure). Best to let cooler heads prevail right now...lets see what happens after a year of healthy players and no talk about other programs knocking on his door will do for the team. Not all of Smith's difficulties with winning have been his fault.
 


I thought you guys were done listening to Doogie. Who did we miss??? Fuller? I thought you guys didn't want him.... Washington? Never on the radar. I believe Tubby never had sincere interest in him. I think he got his offer when WI and Louisville offered him. I've seen him play at least 10 times. He is tall and athletic but in all the times I've seen him I may have seen him 1 maybe 2 productive games. Thomas will probably be a miss. But I think it's going to be a miss for Thomas too. With all the transfers that Hoiberg brings in he might not get the opportunity that he would've received here.By all means do I think with Tubby's name and contract he's doing a great job but he's had solid recruiting classes, especially compared to Monson's last few years. I know everyone is getting nervous because his class last year wasn't the greatest and we don't have a commitment for 2013. But he does have a decent list of interested player along, good talent in the program, and the best instate talent he's had since 2009 coming up in the 2014 class. With a good year this year which is a must I believe the program will go forward.
 

I get the feeling 2012-13 is a very important season on the court for the Gopher basketball program. The potential for upward momentum is there, and we need to deliver. Trying to remain guarded, but this team has tons of experience and unlike last season should be battle tested by the time the B1G season rolls around.
 

SoMpls said:
I thought you guys were done listening to Doogie. Who did we miss??? Fuller? I thought you guys didn't want him....
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I don't think anyone has had a problem with Fuller. And FWIF the Doog, isn't as bad as I once thought.

SoMpls said:
Washington? Never on the radar. I believe Tubby never had sincere interest in him. I think he got his offer when WI and Louisville offered him. I've seen him play at least 10 times. He is tall and athletic but in all the times I've seen him I may have seen him 1 maybe 2 productive games.
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Same. I've seen him play like a unpolished prospect with upside, but most games he just looked terrible. It's more fun to watch his Pop's after a bad play, looks (and talks) like he wants to rush the court and ring his neck.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
No - it was increased to a stated $2.5 million. It effectively winds up being more because of unique 90-day written notice and no firing during the season clauses.

In addition, unlike most contracts, Smith's buyout doesn't decrease much over time. Based on the structure of the contract, it should be $2.5 million for the next 3 to 4 years, then might be* reduced (determined via calculation, but with a cap of $2.5 million) to about $2.2 million for the final 1 to 2 years.

Remember, if Smith simply reaches the Sweet 16 one time in the next 5 years, the contract moves from a 5 year deal to a 6 year deal (automatic one-year extension given).

Now is not the time to be having 'internal meetings' about concerns, if there is validity to that comment. Those meetings should have been done prior to handing over the house.
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I knew it was the 2.5

Maybe it was the 2.5 amount was lower than what Tubby was asking for with the extension. Make sense?
 



I dare say Doogie knows more about local sports than anyone in town. You can question his editorials but he is in there digging perhaps more than anyone.
 

station19 said:
I knew it was the 2.5

Maybe it was the 2.5 amount was lower than what Tubby was asking for with the extension. Make sense?
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Not positive, but I think you're saying "Wasn't the buyout for Tubby lowered for the next two years?" = "Isn't the buyout lower than what Tubby wanted?"

If so, most certainly, however I don't think any amounts have been floated out there from the negotiations. Several months ago my take was that he should be asking for $4 million and the U should be asking for less than $2 million, with $2.5 million being the upper end of a reasonable range that the U would agree to.

They really gave him a lot in this deal, though. Additional incentives and the lowering of the bar to achieve existing incentives was significant. Smith owned the U in this one.
 

Doogie worshipers are amazingly naive the guy basically uses phony/lame sources to strike out on lame rumors. .Do you really believe that the administration is so worried about tubbys recruiting that they just extended and improved his contract and a month later they are fretting and wringing their hands at high level meetings? wake up rubes! The moron forgets tubbys first 2 classes were pretty highly rated so forget the weak 5 years of recruiting garbage. Learn to think critically for yourself and you will not follow everything a sportswriter spews out as valid
 

SelectionSunday said:
I get the feeling 2012-13 is a very important season on the court for the Gopher basketball program. The potential for upward momentum is there, and we need to deliver. Trying to remain guarded, but this team has tons of experience and unlike last season should be battle tested by the time the B1G season rolls around.
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We need Tubby to have success next year to help with the practice facility->eventually address Williams Arena. So even if he is eventually let go at least we will have the facilities to bring in someone good who isn't a step behind.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
Not positive, but I think you're saying "Wasn't the buyout for Tubby lowered for the next two years?" = "Isn't the buyout lower than what Tubby wanted?"

If so, most certainly, however I don't think any amounts have been floated out there from the negotiations. Several months ago my take was that he should be asking for $4 million and the U should be asking for less than $2 million, with $2.5 million being the upper end of a reasonable range that the U would agree to.

They really gave him a lot in this deal, though. Additional incentives and the lowering of the bar to achieve existing incentives was significant. Smith owned the U in this one.
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Yes that's what I was saying, and I agree.

Edit: I also was a little surprised Tubby got so much considering the results so far.
 

THE SCOUT! said:
Do you really believe that the administration is so worried about tubbys recruiting that they just extended and improved his contract and a month later they are fretting and wringing their hands at high level meetings?
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And that they confide in Doogie?
 

It seems to me that 2014 and 2015 are important recruiting classes, if Tubby loses out on Vaughn, Travis, and Jones he is going to be on thin ice not that dissimiliar to Monson when he was losing all the top Minnesota kids.
 

jovs said:
It seems to me that 2014 and 2015 are important recruiting classes, if Tubby loses out on Vaughn, Travis, and Jones he is going to be on thin ice not that dissimiliar to Monson when he was losing all the top Minnesota kids.
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I would think if Tubby doesn't have a respectable recruiting class for 2013 it may hinder the chances for landing tyus, rashad and travis.
 

If the numbers are close to accurate in this article http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2011/10/13/cinderellas-make-headlines.html

it's not like the U gave away the store to Tubby.

Minnesota looks to be about 16th in the country in total Basketball revenue at $13.7 Million Dollars in the 2009-2010 Season.

Using the numbers in the article if you subtract Basketball Expenses from Basketball Revenue, Minnesota made $8 Million dollars in 2009-2010. I am not sure how they calculated the numbers but they also show Game Day expenses of $1 Million Dollars. If that should also be subtracted then they are down to only $7 Million Dollars Basketball profit for 2009-2010.

Using the numbers in the article they also show the expenses per player. Minnesota ranked as the 7th lowest of the 20 top teams listed at $70,000 per player 09-10. My guess is that the revenue from increased ticket prices and BTN money has increased revenues considerably since 2009-2010.

Just using Basketball Revenue dollars (I know they help fund other programs in the Athletic Department) it looks like they should have enough money left over to pay Tubby if he wins the National Championship again. Or, and I hope this is not the case, buy him out if that becomes necessary in the eyes of the administration and those that negotiated the contract even though they have to wait til the end of the season to do it.
 

jovs said:
It seems to me that 2014 and 2015 are important recruiting classes, if Tubby loses out on Vaughn, Travis, and Jones he is going to be on thin ice not that dissimiliar to Monson when he was losing all the top Minnesota kids.
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I haven't been critical of Smith's recruiting thus far, but I'll start grousing if he goes 0-for these big three. Dutcher and Clem would have gotten one or two of them, and that's why those coaches had Tournament success and won a couple conference titles. You do need to reel in a big fish once in a while. And besides even the Top-50 guys, you have to get the 3- and 4-star locals. With Bo Ryan being over there, Fred Hoiberg down there and now Tim Miles to the southwest, there'll be more and more competition for those types of players. It's getting harder.

After reading the article about Miles pounding the pavement for recruits and how much energy and determination that takes, I have to admit wondering whether Smith wants it enough to try to keep up with that anymore. The proof will ultimately be in the pudding.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Dutcher and Clem would have gotten one or two of them, and that's why those coaches had Tournament success and won a couple conference titles.
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It's not difficult to recruit well when you cheat.

Also, Clem never won a conference title.
 


THE SCOUT! said:
clem never cheated to get players only to keep em eligible
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You can recruit/take risks on good players with questionable academics if you know they'll stay eligible because you'll cheat them there.

Also, Clem's cheating created more wins which helps recruiting immensely.

So while Clem likely didn't tell kids "come to Minnesota and you'll never have to do homework or go to class" his cheating led to better recruits and a wider selection of recruits.
 

dpodoll68 said:
It's not difficult to recruit well when you cheat.

Also, Clem never won a conference title.
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Of course you know how sanctimonious that sounds.

The point is that Tubby will not have earned the mountains of money he's made at the U until he brings in big-time recruits and wins some Tournament games. I'm not a Las Vegas betting house, but I'm thinking it's close to even money that Hoiberg or Miles wins a NCAA game before Smith does.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Of course you know how sanctimonious that sounds.
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Call it whatever you want, it's factual.

Bad Gopher said:
The point is that Tubby will not have earned the mountains of money he's made at the U until he brings in big-time recruits and wins some Tournament games. I'm not a Las Vegas betting house, but I'm thinking it's close to even money that Hoiberg or Miles wins a NCAA game before Smith does.
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I'm not sure about Miles, but I don't know why anyone would be surprised at Hoiberg being more successful at Iowa St. than Tubby at Minnesota. Iowa St. is much more successful historically in basketball than Minnesota, and it's not close, especially over the last 25 years or so. Hoiberg already has an NCAA win at Iowa St., btw.
 

I would definitely take that bet. If the Gophers are healthy the expectations should be them being in the top half of the Big 10 and winning a torunament game. Iowa State has some good transfers that'll be eligible but there's no way Nebraska makes the tournament in the next couple of years. If they have a decent recruiting class this year along with recruiting a combination of Vaughn and Travis we'll be looking real good. Andre Hollins, Elliason, Walker, Coleman will all be seniors with, hopefully good young talent. Still way too early to count Tubby out.
 

On a serious note Is Doogie auditioning to be Sid's replacement, that column reads like Sid's jottings section? I'm not trashing it, it seems like someone like Doogie would worker harder at getting "scoops" Does Sid even right his own column or does he have an intern write it and a 4th grader edit it?
 

So eventhough I was in the building when the gophers clinched the Big Ten it didn't happen because of piece of paper said so? So if the bible the whale in Jonah, do you really believe it happened?
 

Clem absolutely won a conference title, he also went to a Final Four and an Elite Eight. You have to be a complete outsider to the world of major college athletics to believe what went on at Minnesota in the mid-late nineties was somehow unique.

Also, Clem's "cheating" did not bring him better recruits as he was often criticized for losing recruiting battles and not working hard enough on the trail. Even after the Final Four, he took the Gophers out of the Doug Wren recruitment which was chronicled quite extensively on the GopherHole (Wren and Kevin Burleson were thought to be a package deal, the Gophers ended up with the lesser regarded Burleson and Wren had quite the journey around college bball).
 

bemidjigopher said:
So eventhough I was in the building when the gophers clinched the Big Ten it didn't happen because of piece of paper said so? So if the bible the whale in Jonah, do you really believe it happened?
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So I assume John Calipari is one of your favorite coaches as well? And you give him full recognition for his final fours and titles?
 

EG#9 said:
Clem absolutely won a conference title, he also went to a Final Four and an Elite Eight. You have to be a complete outsider to the world of major college athletics to believe what went on at Minnesota in the mid-late nineties was somehow unique.

Also, Clem's "cheating" did not bring him better recruits as he was often criticized for losing recruiting battles and not working hard enough on the trail. Even after the Final Four, he took the Gophers out of the Doug Wren recruitment which was chronicled quite extensively on the GopherHole (Wren and Kevin Burleson were thought to be a package deal, the Gophers ended up with the lesser regarded Burleson and Wren had quite the journey around college bball).
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TY.
 

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