Dennis Gates... He's my pick.

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SanDiegoGopherFan said:
In the end, whoever gets hired, I'm confident we will have some unhappy people, but even those who are unhappy will hope for the best.

I guess what I am saying is 99% of the people on this board will support whoever the new coach is and wish him/her the best
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At this point, I would support Potato Head Person, or whatever they're calling them nowadays.
 

forever a gopher said:
Maybe. I think PJ is successful because he is overly driven to succeed at everything he does. Like I said, your last two points could be said about probably a thousand kids that are currently playing D1 basketball. That doesn't make them HC candidates. If two coaches are equal, and one played at a high level, and one didn't, I'm taking the guy who played every day of the week. However, I'm not using that as a main reason to hire him, but more of a tiebreaker.

You appear to be very passionate about this dude. I'm not crapping on "your" dude. Just saying for me, I'm not willing to roll the dice when there are candidates who have a much longer track record of success.
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I would be happy with him or a number of other candidates. I think he deserves an interview. I just see a lot of Gopher fans talking themselves out of Gates, so I'm offering some deeper points on him than just his HC experience.

I'm trying not to get too tied to any one candidate at this point, as I hate to be disappointed with whoever Coyle ends up going with.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
In the end, whoever gets hired, I'm confident we will have some unhappy people, but even those who are unhappy will hope for the best.

I guess what I am saying is 99% of the people on this board will support whoever the new coach is and wish him/her the best
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Agreed. I was all-in on Pitino, just like I'll be all-in on whomever is hired this go 'round. It's this difficult in-between phase when we all sit here and debate HC candidates that is hard. Obviously, each person is way overanalyzed when you have weeks and weeks to do it.
 

forever a gopher said:
Agreed. I was all-in on Pitino, just like I'll be all-in on whomever is hired this go 'round. It's this difficult in-between phase when we all sit here and debate HC candidates that is hard. Obviously, each person is way overanalyzed when you have weeks and weeks to do it.
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This is the right attitude.
 

WriterGoph said:
Other than 2 years as a HC, it's not even in the same atmosphere as the Pitino situation. Trust that Coyle is well aware and able to differentiate between the two.
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I would agree. Anyone who really believes that Pitino 8 years ago and Gates today should be viewed the same is, as Arne Carlson once described Michele Bachmann, "not a heavy lifter."

I mostly have held the position that the Big Ten Conference is a place for seasoned coaches who have a demonstrated track record of success at lower levels (or, in some cases, comparable levels). However, I very much try to avoid being an ideologue on any subject. Even as much as I've disliked Pitino over his tenure here (since his second year actually), I've always put that aside when I've felt that he earned the right to remain in the position (at least for another year).

There are numerous exceptions to every rule of thumb. A number of posters have have given examples of relatively unseasoned coaches who have gone on to good careers. Hiring Pitino for this job was a big mistake but having little experience as a head coach was not his only weakness nor even his most significant one. After 8 years of coaching a power six conference team, Pitino is now a seasoned coach but it's difficult to discern significant growth in any area other than recruiting.

Sometimes (actually, often) you are better off making decisions on a case-by-case basis than by hard
and fast rules.
 


forever a gopher said:
The bottom two points do nothing for me, as you could say that about hundreds to thousands of D1 basketball players every year.
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Silly boy. While I don't believe that playing the game at a high level is any guarantee of being a successful coach, I do believe that never having played the game at a high level was a source of Pitino's insecurity. Being able to craft a compelling story doesn't mean anything? What planet are you from? Ever hear of Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama?
 

cjbfbp said:
I would agree. Anyone who really believes that Pitino 8 years ago and Gates today should be viewed the same is, as Arne Carlson once described Michele Bachmann, "not a heavy lifter."

I mostly have held the position that the Big Ten Conference is a place for seasoned coaches who have a demonstrated track record of success at lower levels (or, in some cases, comparable levels). However, I very much try to avoid being an ideologue on any subject. Even as much as I've disliked Pitino over his tenure here (since his second year actually), I've always put that aside when I've felt that he earned the right to remain in the position (at least for another year).

There are numerous exceptions to every rule of thumb. A number of posters have have given examples of relatively unseasoned coaches who have gone on to good careers. Hiring Pitino for this job was a big mistake but having little experience as a head coach was not his only weakness nor even his most significant one. After 8 years of coaching a power six conference team, Pitino is now a seasoned coach but it's difficult to discern significant growth in any area other than recruiting.

Sometimes (actually, often) you are better off making decisions on a case-by-case basis than by hard
and fast rules.
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I don't think anyone is saying they are exactly the same. They are saying Dennis Gates is risky because his resume is lacking for head coaching experience in the exact same way that Richard's was lacking.

They both had minimal experience at a lesser level for the EXACT JOB we would be hiring him for. Are they the exact same candidate? Of course not. Are there similarities when comparing the single most important kind of experience applicable for the job? Yep. In my opinion, Richard's failures were largely due to his inexperience as a Head Coach. He didn't come off as immature to me.

All of that said, I do like Dennis Gates. I like the way Cleveland State plays and he is really impressive in all of the videos. But make no mistake, we would be buying low on him. It's risky in a similar way to Richard being risky.
 


He seems like a good guy, but his resume isn't that much thicker than Richard's was. And I'm not generally a "the coach will leave us" person, but I feel like if he has success here he will be off to Florida State to replace Hamilton when he retires or another ACC job within 5 years.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't think anyone is saying they are exactly the same. They are saying Dennis Gates is risky because his resume is lacking for head coaching experience in the exact same way that Richard's was lacking.

They both had minimal experience at a lesser level for the EXACT JOB we would be hiring him for. Are they the exact same candidate? Of course not. Are there similarities when comparing the single most important kind of experience applicable for the job? Yep. In my opinion, Richard's failures were largely due to his inexperience as a Head Coach. He didn't come off as immature to me.

All of that said, I do like Dennis Gates. I like the way Cleveland State plays and he is really impressive in all of the videos. But make no mistake, we would be buying low on him. It's risky in a similar way to Richard being risky.
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I had this argument about Whalen needing to get 8 years like Pitino based on experience. You could argue the at Gates and Whalen’s experiences have them set up better than Pitino.
 

Gates is definitely a penny stock right now. That isn't a bad thing, he seems to be widely rumored to lots of jobs.

Porter Mosser has more coaching experience. But of his time, he has only really had success the past 5 years. Everything before that was pretty well, bad.

So I guess it would get down to which of them do you believe would be better at recruiting. That very well may depend on who they bring in as assistant coaches. Gates seems to have recruited pretty well in his limited time and may have out performed Moser.

He might be the guy, but is Coyle ready to roll the dice?

Certainly Gates has options since BC is rumored to be looking at him.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
IYep. In my opinion, Richard's failures were largely due to his inexperience as a Head Coach.
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What's the excuse for the last two years then? He had 7 years under his belt prior to the 2019-20 season and two of the best players in the conference. What's his excuse for this year when he probably had his deepest team since his first year?
 

cjbfbp said:
What's the excuse for the last two years then? He had 7 years under his belt prior to the 2019-20 season and two of the best players in the conference. What's his excuse for this year when he probably had his deepest team since his first year?
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That is just a myth.
 



Get him in for an interview!

Take it from there.

If someone else beats him out in the interview process, great! But I'm betting on Gates provided we get him in.
 

Coaching resumes below...Pitino skated around off of his dads success/name. Gates at least has some HC experience and more significant work as an asst imo.

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Face The Facts said:
Get him in for an interview!

Take it from there.

If someone else beats him out in the interview process, great! But I'm betting on Gates provided we get him in.
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Yup. I also think he should at the very least be interviewed. Who knows, maybe he doesn't even want to come here. Perhaps he wants to get a couple more years down there and go elsewhere
 

Notice how Pitino never latched on anywhere without going back to someplace comfortable pretty quickly. Like he didn't bring enough to the table for guys like Donovan to keep him around.

Gates stuck with Hamilton for a good long time. So he was good at recruiting or coaching or developing players. Leonard would have booted him if he didn't provide something meaningful to the program.

That may just mean something.
 

MinnGopher said:
Coaching resumes below...Pitino skated around off of his dads success/name. Gates at least has some HC experience and more significant work as an asst imo.

View attachment 11910View attachment 11911
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Again, why are we comparing anybody to Pitino? Pitino was hired by a slimy dude who thought he was way bigger of a deal than he was. He struck out on how many coaches before he got to Pitino? I think everybody (fans and Teague among them) was more than all-in on Shaka, and it's unfortunate that didn't happen. But to use Pitino's resume as a measuring stick is a very low bar.
 

forever a gopher said:
Again, why are we comparing anybody to Pitino? Pitino was hired by a slimy dude who thought he was way bigger of a deal than he was. He struck out on how many coaches before he got to Pitino? I think everybody (fans and Teague among them) was more than all-in on Shaka, and it's unfortunate that didn't happen. But to use Pitino's resume as a measuring stick is a very low bar.
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That's a good point. Pitino is the low bar. We should not compare him to that.

Let's have Clem be our bar, minus the infractions.
 

Otis said:
That is just a myth.
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Not really, when have we had more than 1 guy who can handle the ball? We can actually go 8/9 deep, we just don't have any semblance of an offense, and play inconsistent D.

PG: Carr/Mash-haven't had 2 PGs Pitinio's entire tenure
SG: Kalscheur/Carr
SF: Tre/Gach
PF: Johnson/Ihnen
C: Robbins/Curry/Freeman
 

forever a gopher said:
Again, why are we comparing anybody to Pitino? Pitino was hired by a slimy dude who thought he was way bigger of a deal than he was. He struck out on how many coaches before he got to Pitino? I think everybody (fans and Teague among them) was more than all-in on Shaka, and it's unfortunate that didn't happen. But to use Pitino's resume as a measuring stick is a very low bar.
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I'm not saying we should be, I'm making the point that his resume's and Pitino's are not that similar. Guy actually was a staple in a program that saw its stock rise while he was there with the HC. Pitino hopped around via connections/name, not results.
 

Otis said:
That is just a myth.
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Well, it looks that way when viewing the end result but it's worth looking at certain segments of the story.

Why did a guy (Ihnen) who averaged 6.9 points per game in the last seven games of his freshman season become an offensive nonentity this year?

Why is a guy (Gach) who averaged double figures in Utah last year, 10.5 points/gm over the first 14 games, and 6.3 over the first 7 Big Ten games, averaging 2.3 points/gm over his last 11 games?

Why couldn't Pitino get more playing time for Freeman, Mitchell, and Mutaff (while he was here) earlier in the year instead of leaving the starters in for so long in blowout wins and losses? Would have helped to give these players a little more exposure and confidence in game situations. I don't know if that would have kept Mutaff from leaving, or if he would have been any good if he stayed, but I guess we'll never know.

Depth is a perennial problem with Pitino's teams and so is the fact that when certain players start struggling, he rarely finds a way to bring them back.
 

MinnGopher said:
Coaching resumes below...Pitino skated around off of his dads success/name. Gates at least has some HC experience and more significant work as an asst imo.

View attachment 11910View attachment 11911
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Thing that sticks out is Gates has been at FSU long enough to know how a full program operates. Pitino had 2 years at any stop before landing MN.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Thing that sticks out is Gates has been at FSU long enough to know how a full program operates. Pitino had 2 years at any stop before landing MN.
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Being in a program, where the buck ultimately stops with someone else, is not the same thing as calling your own shots. Not saying you were claiming otherwise.
 

cjbfbp said:
Well, it looks that way when viewing the end result but it's worth looking at certain segments of the story.

Why did a guy (Ihnen) who averaged 6.9 points per game in the last seven games of his freshman season become an offensive nonentity this year?

Why is a guy (Gach) who averaged double figures in Utah last year, 10.5 points/gm over the first 14 games, and 6.3 over the first 7 Big Ten games, averaging 2.3 points/gm over his last 11 games?

Why couldn't Pitino get more playing time for Freeman, Mitchell, and Mutaff (while he was here) earlier in the year instead of leaving the starters in for so long in blowout wins and losses? Would have helped to give these players a little more exposure and confidence in game situations. I don't know if that would have kept Mutaff from leaving, or if he would have been any good if he stayed, but I guess we'll never know.

Depth is a perennial problem with Pitino's teams and so is the fact that when certain players start struggling, he rarely finds a way to bring them back.
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Those are good questions!
 

bga1 said:
Those are good questions!
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Thanks! One of my greatest frustrations with Pitino has been that he seems to give up on certain players when they enter a period of funk and struggle. What results is increased pressure on the best players to produce even more.
 

cjbfbp said:
Thanks! One of my greatest frustrations with Pitino has been that he seems to give up on certain players when they enter a period of funk and struggle. What results is increased pressure on the best players to produce even more.
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^ This. Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I think he broke Gabe.
 

How? Plenty of playing time. Kept Gabe in there when he missed wide open shots. Never yanked him out he was allowed to play through misses and mistakes. Gave Gave support when speaking to the media. Just curious.
 


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