Ben Johnson and this team

[Dakota2]

I think it SHOULD be safe to say regardless of how you feel about the hire the roster wasn’t very good this year as proven by the fact that many are taking a last place finish as a positive.
And it SHOULD be safe to say this is the team Johnson assembled. Because it is.

Ben's team all the way. We can debate if someone else, facing the absurd task of starting with two players (one of which would lose his year to injury) could have done a better job in the short time available to put a roster together while recruiting a class for next year.

Personally I doubt whether other coaches available to us would have done better. And given the roster, he did an excellent job winning 13 games and taking some ranked teams to the wire. The team exceeded reasonable expectations.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Ben's team all the way. We can debate if someone else, facing the absurd task of starting with two players (one of which would lose his year to injury) could have done a better job in the short time available to put a roster together while recruiting a class for next year.

Personally I doubt whether other coaches available to us would have done better. And given the roster, he did an excellent job winning 13 games and taking some ranked teams to the wire. The team exceeded reasonable expectations.

Ben did put together a team of experienced and gutsy players. They had their moments but also a lot of warts. I enjoyed watching them. Its not fair to fully judge Ben's coaching ability based on this year. He scrambled.

The proof in the pudding is can he bring in higher rated transfers to compliment Battle, Fox and Ihnen and take the pressure off the frosh? Guys that will be more physical and skilled. Guys who are better equipped to compete in the BIG, like Battle and Willis. Unknowns at this time but they will be our hope for the coming season.

TT is a square peg trying to fit into a round hole at this time and has a long way to go to fit in. If he decides to transfer out I wouldn't be surprised. Thiam also.

This is all on Ben. Where will he take the Gophers? I am already excited for next season.

 

[golfing18now]

Ben's team all the way. We can debate if someone else, facing the absurd task of starting with two players (one of which would lose his year to injury) could have done a better job in the short time available to put a roster together while recruiting a class for next year.

Personally I doubt whether other coaches available to us would have done better. And given the roster, he did an excellent job winning 13 games and taking some ranked teams to the wire. The team exceeded reasonable expectations.

It was an absurd task in part because he couldn’t convince anybody to stay. His first two tasks would have been to sell his vision to the players already here and then quickly fill out his staff. Both would have made the task of filling out his year one roster much easier. He wasn’t particularly adept at either. That doesn’t mean he will be a failure long term. But I’m not sure why we can’t evaluate these things honestly.

 

[Some guy]

Ben's team all the way. We can debate if someone else, facing the absurd task of starting with two players (one of which would lose his year to injury) could have done a better job in the short time available to put a roster together while recruiting a class for next year.

Personally I doubt whether other coaches available to us would have done better. And given the roster, he did an excellent job winning 13 games and taking some ranked teams to the wire. The team exceeded reasonable expectations.

Yeah. I have said I would’ve rather had him than Craig smith. I think there are some hires you could make that would’ve been able to put together a better roster. Those options may have been outside of our price range or may have been uninterested.

 

[Spottedmuskie]

It was an absurd task in part because he couldn’t convince anybody to stay. His first two tasks would have been to sell his vision to the players already here and then quickly fill out his staff. Both would have made the task of filling out his year one roster much easier. He wasn’t particularly adept at either. That doesn’t mean he will be a failure long term. But I’m not sure why we can’t evaluate these things honestly.

Outside of Brandon Johnson and Gabe, the rest really didn't play that well elsewhere. Gabe still shot bad, everyone needed a fresh start. How many ppg would Mashburn have averaged under Ben? Liam finally started playing, Gophers season was already over by that point.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Outside of Brandon Johnson and Gabe, the rest really didn't play that well elsewhere. Gabe still shot bad, everyone needed a fresh start. How many ppg would Mashburn have averaged under Ben? Liam finally started playing, Gophers season was already over by that point.

Was going to post something to the same effect. Took a look at last year's roster and here is how I see it.

Gone no matter what:
Robbins - following his uncle
Mashburn - following Pitino
Carr - Seemed like there was no way he was coming back

Guys Johnson probably didn't want:
Tre' Williams - Did very little with Oregon State
Sam Freeman - Did very little with Pacific
Martice Mitchell - nothing listed for 2022 that I found

Guys that maybe could have helped:
Gach & Kalscheur - No clue how seriously either even considered sticking around and not sure either would have provided a major impact for this year's team.

There is only one true loss from last year's roster that potentially was an option to come back and that was Brandon Johnson. He could have really helped this year's team and had a very nice season for DePaul

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Ben's team all the way. We can debate if someone else, facing the absurd task of starting with two players (one of which would lose his year to injury) could have done a better job in the short time available to put a roster together while recruiting a class for next year.

Personally I doubt whether other coaches available to us would have done better. And given the roster, he did an excellent job winning 13 games and taking some ranked teams to the wire. The team exceeded reasonable expectations.

They finished in last place, expectations were not exceeded, you can say met, but definitely not exceeded.

 

[leib0039]

Obviously we have heard what Thorson does with the defense and in game stuff. I genuinely have no idea, does Thorson recruit a lot? none? Same with Kemp and and Jenkins. This is not a slam but I dont actually know what their specialty or role on the staff is. I just think for example at Duke I think the reason they hired Scheyer (outside of K wanting them too) is that he was the lead recruiter, he basically closed the deal on these guys. I know its on Ben overall, but I dont know like are Kemp/Jenkins/Hollins??? out sealing guys up or are they more X's and O's guys? I will be honest, I dont know if I heard or saw their names more than like 3 times all year, not that assistant coaches are broadcast but the ones like Orlando Antigua or Scheyer who are out there crushing recruiting are in the news/notes more. Some times its those connections of assistant coaches that mean a lot in recruiting.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Obviously we have heard what Thorson does with the defense and in game stuff. I genuinely have no idea, does Thorson recruit a lot? none? Same with Kemp and and Jenkins. This is not a slam but I dont actually know what their specialty or role on the staff is. I just think for example at Duke I think the reason they hired Scheyer (outside of K wanting them too) is that he was the lead recruiter, he basically closed the deal on these guys. I know its on Ben overall, but I dont know like are Kemp/Jenkins/Hollins??? out sealing guys up or are they more X's and O's guys? I will be honest, I dont know if I heard or saw their names more than like 3 times all year, not that assistant coaches are broadcast but the ones like Orlando Antigua or Scheyer who are out there crushing recruiting are in the news/notes more. Some times its those connections of assistant coaches that mean a lot in recruiting.

You rarely hear much about College Basketball assistant coaches. After reading your post I tried to come up with how many basketball assistants I could name in the Big Ten (excluding ours) and the only one I can think of is Krabbenhoft at Wisconsin, and I only know that one because of the Juwan Howard incident.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

NIU rejected Ben’s application.

 

[VanillaThunder]

Hard to judge Ben on this season. He was thrown into a tough situation at a program mired in mediocrity for 24 years and counting.

He had 1 holdover player in Ihnen and another in Curry who returned for his 6th season. TT was a Pitino recruit who stayed.

Ben seems to have made in roads in local recruiting. Whether or not they develop is on him now.

His weakness from the outside looking in appears to be young player development. sample size of 2. Thiam was his recruit that got no PT even in non conference games. Same pretty much for TT. I don’t buy the crap that he was too skinny to put on the floor. Have you seen the Slim Reaper (Holmgren)? Not saying he is the same caliber of player at all, but he is 7’ tall and did provide some interior defense. In Ben’s defense, TT would have been better if used with an active and experienced post. Didn’t have one.

With so many one year fillers leaving after this season, Ben will need more transfers again. The quality of the transfers in should provide us with a better indication of where this program is headed.

 

[Ope3]

They finished in last place, expectations were not exceeded, you can say met, but definitely not exceeded.

Overall YES, but as this season embarked my expectation was this season was going to be circling the drain by Dec 1. By that I mean zero realistic hope of reaching the post-season following playing Pittsburgh. I didn't think winning 2 games in Asheville was likely, much less Starkville or Ann Arbor.

They were still in the conversation for the NCAA when Feb 1 rolled around and even the NIT a week or so later. By that measure, my own expectations were exceeded. At the very least, I have been entertained and did not feel as though my emotional investment was a waste of time.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Hard to judge Ben on this season. He was thrown into a tough situation at a program mired in mediocrity for 24 years and counting.

He had 1 holdover player in Ihnen and another in Curry who returned for his 6th season. TT was a Pitino recruit who stayed.

Ben seems to have made in roads in local recruiting. Whether or not they develop is on him now.

His weakness from the outside looking in appears to be young player development. sample size of 2. Thiam was his recruit that got no PT even in non conference games. Same pretty much for TT. I don’t buy the crap that he was too skinny to put on the floor. Have you seen the Slim Reaper (Holmgren)? Not saying he is the same caliber of player at all, but he is 7’ tall and did provide some interior defense. In Ben’s defense, TT would have been better if used with an active and experienced post. Didn’t have one.

With so many one year fillers leaving after this season, Ben will need more transfers again. The quality of the transfers in should provide us with a better indication of where this program is headed.

I feel you have to give a young player a couple years before passing judgment on development. You look at our drunken neighbors to the east, and some of their more productive guys over the years did next to nothing their freshman year and came alive the following year through off-season development. Jordan Taylor was one, and Steven Crowl this year is another. TT was more highly rated coming out of HS than Crowl. If Thompson doesn't show more next year, then there might be something wrong on the development front.

 

[VanillaThunder]

I you have to give a young player a couple years before passing judgment on development. You look at our drunken neighbors to the east, and some of their more productive guys over the years did next to nothing their freshman year and came alive the following year through off-season development. Jordan Taylor was one, and Steven Crowl this year is another. TT was more highly rated coming out of HS than Crowl. If Thompson doesn't show more next year, then there might be something wrong on the development front.

Recent winning tradition and depth provides WI with that advantage. We have neither currently.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Recent winning tradition and depth provides WI with that advantage. We have neither currently.

Fair but the point is still valid in regards to young players. Every coach handles development differently but there are lots of true freshman that just aren't ready to compete at a high level in their first year of college.

Some coaches will just throw them to the wolves anyway while others will really limit minutes until they feel they are ready for a bigger role. Johnson would seem to fall into that second group.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Is Ben Carlson coming home to the U?

 

[tjgopher]

Eric Curry?

What about Eric Curry?

 

[leib0039]

Fair but the point is still valid in regards to young players. Every coach handles development differently but there are lots of true freshman that just aren't ready to compete at a high level in their first year of college.

Some coaches will just throw them to the wolves anyway while others will really limit minutes until they feel they are ready for a bigger role. Johnson would seem to fall into that second group.

This is such a double edged sword, and there is no way to know the right answer most times. I will use the NFL. Was peyton manning ready year 1 in the NFL? His 3-13 record and 28 INT's suggest he wasnt, but that seemed to have been good for him and prepped him for a stellar career. Tim Couch went 2-12 his first year and seemed to send his career into a spiral. Would Manning been as good if he sat 1 year, I assume so but you dont know. Would Couch have done better given a year to learn and not take a beating, maybe, maybe not but you will never know.

Do I think TT/Thiam needed to play more, yes I do, but ultimately none of us know the player and if that will help or not. I tend to think the only way to learn is to play, but thats not always true for every player, especially now where kids are coddled so there are times where if it goes bad they give up or get down on themselves. Maybe the next kid says NOPE NOT LETTING THAT HAPPEN AGAIN! and puts in more work to get better. That falls on the coach, that is to me the #1 thing Pitino was AWFUL at, there was no improvement from the guys who didnt get a ton of run early. You knew if we had a freshman on campus who didnt play, well thats 4 wasted years because they will never amount to anything. I honestly cant think of 1 guy who didnt play a ton as a FR who got better over 4 years under RP. As a program that seems unlikely to bring in a ton of top end talent, that has to be Ben's bread and butter. Guys like TT/Thiam/JOJ/Henley need to develop, and its up to him to know if playing or sitting them helps more over time.

 

[leftyslefty]

Is Ben Carlson coming home to the U?

No. most likely leaving Badgers though.

 

[BarnBurner]

Overall YES, but as this season embarked my expectation was this season was going to be circling the drain by Dec 1. By that I mean zero realistic hope of reaching the post-season following playing Pittsburgh. I didn't think winning 2 games in Asheville was likely, much less Starkville or Ann Arbor.

They were still in the conversation for the NCAA when Feb 1 rolled around and even the NIT a week or so later. By that measure, my own expectations were exceeded. At the very least, I have been entertained and did not feel as though my emotional investment was a waste of time.

 

[Spottedmuskie]

I you have to give a young player a couple years before passing judgment on development. You look at our drunken neighbors to the east, and some of their more productive guys over the years did next to nothing their freshman year and came alive the following year through off-season development. Jordan Taylor was one, and Steven Crowl this year is another. TT was more highly rated coming out of HS than Crowl. If Thompson doesn't show more next year, then there might be something wrong on the development front.

Crowl looked good at Eastview, he really could do it all. TT was such a mystery, his ranking just seems random. Yes he has a high ceiling, but he hasn't really done much and didn't put up great numbers at all at LL in Indiana. Watching two games of each last year on espn, Kenny Pohto looked like he would be ready to contribute day 1 over TT.

 

[Spottedmuskie]

Is Ben Carlson coming home to the U?

He should go to SDSU or St Thomas imo

 

[Spottedmuskie]

NIU rejected Ben’s application.

Minnesota rejected John Wooden's

 

[Bad Gopher]

Recent winning tradition and depth provides WI with that advantage. We have neither currently.

Taylor did get some playing time his freshman year, and he looked lost and inept. He wasn't ready. He couldn't have done much. His sophomore year he hit the ground running. It's true what they say: you improve your game in the off season.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Crowl looked good at Eastview, he really could do it all. TT was such a mystery, his ranking just seems random. Yes he has a high ceiling, but he hasn't really done much and didn't put up great numbers at all at LL in Indiana. Watching two games of each last year on espn, Kenny Pohto looked like he would be ready to contribute day 1 over TT.

I didn't pay much attention to either, I have to say. Perhaps this reflects more on evaluation and scouting than on player development. I do like the looks of TT, but it's hard not to categorize him as a bit of a project. I've compared him to John Thomas, who turned out pretty dang good in the end. (Even Trevor Winter would look good out there right now.)

That's the frustrating part this past...generation? Some guy goes somewhere and excels, and everyone here is like, I knew he was going to be great. I'm not sure he had interest in Minnesota, but I think of 3-star local guys as generally get-able.

 

[Spottedmuskie]

I didn't pay much attention to either, I have to say. Perhaps this reflects more on evaluation and scouting than on player development. I do like the looks of TT, but it's hard not to categorize him as a bit of a project. I've compared him to John Thomas, who turned out pretty dang good in the end. (Even Trevor Winter would look good out there right now.)

That's the frustrating part this past...generation? Some guy goes somewhere and excels, and everyone here is like, I knew he was going to be great. I'm not sure he had interest in Minnesota, but I think of 3-star local guys as generally get-able.

For sure, it's hard to tell and most times we can trust the experts with their rankings. What I do like about Ben is he offered Ola-Joseph, Carrington, and Payne all before they were ranked on 247. Okay maybe covid slowed down their ranking, but still. He offered Kapke before any other D1 school, and Kapke doesn't have a 247 ranking yet.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Hard to judge Ben on this season. He was thrown into a tough situation at a program mired in mediocrity for 24 years and counting.

He was thrown into a tough situation, without question. But if you can't judge a coach on how the team develops over the course of a full season, team improvement, etc. how can you judge a coach? Are they better today than they were in Nov/Dec? That is certainly a reasonable metric to use in assessing the effectiveness of the coach

 

[BarnBurner]

He was thrown into a tough situation, without question. But if you can't judge a coach on how the team develops over the course of a full season, team improvement, etc. how can you judge a coach? Are they better today than they were in Nov/Dec? That is certainly a reasonable metric to use in assessing the effectiveness of the coach

Usually.

Not now, not here. Unprecedented situation and circumstances.

 

[MNVCGUY]

This is such a double edged sword, and there is no way to know the right answer most times. I will use the NFL. Was peyton manning ready year 1 in the NFL? His 3-13 record and 28 INT's suggest he wasnt, but that seemed to have been good for him and prepped him for a stellar career. Tim Couch went 2-12 his first year and seemed to send his career into a spiral. Would Manning been as good if he sat 1 year, I assume so but you dont know. Would Couch have done better given a year to learn and not take a beating, maybe, maybe not but you will never know.

Do I think TT/Thiam needed to play more, yes I do, but ultimately none of us know the player and if that will help or not. I tend to think the only way to learn is to play, but thats not always true for every player, especially now where kids are coddled so there are times where if it goes bad they give up or get down on themselves. Maybe the next kid says NOPE NOT LETTING THAT HAPPEN AGAIN! and puts in more work to get better. That falls on the coach, that is to me the #1 thing Pitino was AWFUL at, there was no improvement from the guys who didnt get a ton of run early. You knew if we had a freshman on campus who didnt play, well thats 4 wasted years because they will never amount to anything. I honestly cant think of 1 guy who didnt play a ton as a FR who got better over 4 years under RP. As a program that seems unlikely to bring in a ton of top end talent, that has to be Ben's bread and butter. Guys like TT/Thiam/JOJ/Henley need to develop, and its up to him to know if playing or sitting them helps more over time.

I would have liked to have seen the freshman play more, especially early in the year. But in the end I am willing to give Johnson the benefit of the doubt in regards to how he chooses to develop young guys and assume he knows what he is doing.

If we start to see a pattern of guys not getting better under Johnson then we will know his approach isn't working. But it is too early to know at this point.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Minnesota rejected John Wooden's

If you believe Sid, Wooden would have been the coach at MN but a snowstorm that knocked out telephone service screwed it up.

If Frank McCormick, the Gophers athletic director in 1948, had not been caught in a snowstorm in South Dakota, the late John Wooden would have been the Gophers men's basketball coach rather than move from Indiana State to UCLA.

McCormick had offered Wooden the job, and Wooden had accepted it but only if he could bring in his own assistant coaches. However, McCormick wanted Wooden to keep Dave MacMillan, who had another year left on his contract. In order to get approval to let MacMillan go and pay him and add Wooden's coaches to the budget, McCormick had to get permission from then- University of Minnesota President Lotus Coffman.

McCormick did finally get approval from Coffman to allow Wooden to hire his own coaches, but the snowstorm had cut off phone lines in South Dakota and McCormick couldn't get in touch with Wooden. After not hearing from McCormick for a couple of days, Wooden took the job at UCLA.

Wooden, who died Friday at age 99, told me more than once that at the time he would have preferred the Gophers job because of his background in the Big Ten as a player at Purdue. But things couldn't have turned out any better at UCLA.