All Things 2024 Minnesota Twins In-Season Thread

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GophersInIowa said:
Larnach has had really good stretches at the big league level. He started off hot last year. Just has to keep it going.
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Then he got hurt again and Wallner took the ball and ran with it.

He appears yo be trusting his hands more now and conscientiously staying back on the ball - he can hit anyone’s fastball and bty staying back he won’t be out in front of their breaking stuff.

He’s got a better pure stoke than Wallner IMO and would be nice for both him and AK to be relatively healthy for the rest of the season and let’s see what numbers they put up.
 
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Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t the White Sox suppose to be this up and coming team a couple years ago?
 




GophersInIowa said:
Assuming Thielbar gets it figured out, I don't think we'll see Okert in a lot of high leverage situations. Funderburk is probably the odd man out once the other guys get healthy.
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Funderburk is probably the best of the 3 lefties though.

Also, I would like to see Jax stay the closer and Duran the 8th inning/fireman. Duran is nastier but give me an ulcer.
 



We go 4-2 on our 6 game road trip we’re back to.500.
Very doable as we have 3 @Angeks and 3 @Mighty Whities

Just need to be a ,500 of better club by June 1 and we’re in contention for another central 👑
 



was reading an Aaron Gleeman "mailbag" article in The Athletic. one or two questions that actually dealt with baseball, and the rest was Gleeman and the readers bashing the ownership and front office.

Haven't watched it yet, but apparently Gleeman was on the "Foul Territory" YouTube show the other day with AJ Pierzynski and that turned into a 'Pohlad bashing' session.

look - the owners cut the payroll. I know that. you know that. everybody knows that. at some point can we please stop obsessing over the payroll and just see how the team does?

the payroll is not making players take called 3rd strikes. the payroll is not making Farmer unable to hit. the payroll did not make Lewis tear a quad, or Correa pull an intercostal.

The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. that is not a typo. The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. So they should be better than the Twins, because payroll is the only thing that matters........right?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was reading an Aaron Gleeman "mailbag" article in The Athletic. one or two questions that actually dealt with baseball, and the rest was Gleeman and the readers bashing the ownership and front office.

Haven't watched it yet, but apparently Gleeman was on the "Foul Territory" YouTube show the other day with AJ Pierzynski and that turned into a 'Pohlad bashing' session.

look - the owners cut the payroll. I know that. you know that. everybody knows that. at some point can we please stop obsessing over the payroll and just see how the team does?

the payroll is not making players take called 3rd strikes. the payroll is not making Farmer unable to hit. the payroll did not make Lewis tear a quad, or Correa pull an intercostal.

The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. that is not a typo. The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. So they should be better than the Twins, because payroll is the only thing that matters........right?
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I think it's a valid complaint. But yeah, it's lazy to keep putting the bulk of the blame on the spending. If they had signed Blake Snell they would not be in a better place than they currently are.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was reading an Aaron Gleeman "mailbag" article in The Athletic. one or two questions that actually dealt with baseball, and the rest was Gleeman and the readers bashing the ownership and front office.

Haven't watched it yet, but apparently Gleeman was on the "Foul Territory" YouTube show the other day with AJ Pierzynski and that turned into a 'Pohlad bashing' session.

look - the owners cut the payroll. I know that. you know that. everybody knows that. at some point can we please stop obsessing over the payroll and just see how the team does?

the payroll is not making players take called 3rd strikes. the payroll is not making Farmer unable to hit. the payroll did not make Lewis tear a quad, or Correa pull an intercostal.

The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. that is not a typo. The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. So they should be better than the Twins, because payroll is the only thing that matters........right?
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Are you serious with this post? You cite one example of a team that sucks with a mid-tier payroll, and that's the definitive answer?

On average, more money is better than less money. Higher payroll is better than lower payroll. And this didn't need to happen - the Pohlads are one of the wealthiest ownership groups in professional sports. They subjected us, the fans, to this bullshit because they're a bunch of greedy fucking tightwads. And you bend over and take it gladly? I thought you were better than that, son.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was reading an Aaron Gleeman "mailbag" article in The Athletic. one or two questions that actually dealt with baseball, and the rest was Gleeman and the readers bashing the ownership and front office.

Haven't watched it yet, but apparently Gleeman was on the "Foul Territory" YouTube show the other day with AJ Pierzynski and that turned into a 'Pohlad bashing' session.

look - the owners cut the payroll. I know that. you know that. everybody knows that. at some point can we please stop obsessing over the payroll and just see how the team does?

the payroll is not making players take called 3rd strikes. the payroll is not making Farmer unable to hit. the payroll did not make Lewis tear a quad, or Correa pull an intercostal.

The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. that is not a typo. The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. So they should be better than the Twins, because payroll is the only thing that matters........right?
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Nobody has ever said the payroll is all that matters. But when you fail on the field like the Twins have early, it makes it real easy to point fingers at ownership. And when ownership says things like "Tampa wins while not spending money" while failing to mention that Tampa plays in a stadium that's worse than the one your family used as leverage to get the people of Minnesota to help fund a new stadium (and all the revenue that followed), yeah, payroll is going to be a topic of conversation.
 



dpodoll68 said:
Are you serious with this post? You cite one example of a team that sucks with a mid-tier payroll, and that's the definitive answer?

On average, more money is better than less money. Higher payroll is better than lower payroll. And this didn't need to happen - the Pohlads are one of the wealthiest ownership groups in professional sports. They subjected us, the fans, to this bullshit because they're a bunch of greedy fucking tightwads. And you bend over and take it gladly? I thought you were better than that, son.
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the last line of my post was meant to be sarcastic.

But the general idea - that money doesn't solve everything - is something I do honestly believe.

I honestly believe that the Pohlads look at the team as a business. and they try to run the team so that they - the owners - do not lose money. and that is their right as owners of the business.

you apparently believe that makes the Pohlads "a bunch of greedy f*cking tightwads" - because they don't want to lose money on a business they own.

I do not understand - I truly, honestly do not understand - why a sports team belongs in a different class of business. or why the net worth of a business owner means they should be willing to lose money while operating a business.

now, there is a broader discussion to be had about the economics of baseball. but given the current state of affairs, I do not blame the owners for choosing to operate the team like a business.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
the last line of my post was meant to be sarcastic.

But the general idea - that money doesn't solve everything - is something I do honestly believe.

I honestly believe that the Pohlads look at the team as a business. and they try to run the team so that they - the owners - do not lose money. and that is their right as owners of the business.

you apparently believe that makes the Pohlads "a bunch of greedy f*cking tightwads" - because they don't want to lose money on a business they own.

I do not understand - I truly, honestly do not understand - why a sports team belongs in a different class of business. or why the net worth of a business owner means they should be willing to lose money while operating a business.

now, there is a broader discussion to be had about the economics of baseball. but given the current state of affairs, I do not blame the owners for choosing to operate the team like a business.
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They are not obligated to lose $$ every year and no one has said that. But sports is not the same as making widgets, where the bottom line each year is all that matters. There are years to "go for it" even if it means you lose $$. You can make the $$ back later in a down year and/or from the increased value of the team if you win. Most regular businesses do not appreciate in value the way pro sports franchises have. That alone makes it different from a regular business. Losing $$ on operations some years is a reasonable exchange for the overall value of your asset increasing even more.

This was one of those years where going for it makes sense to go all in and they crapped all over it with extremely naive and short-sighted decision making and even worse PR. If you don't care about winning, and can't or don't want to operate within the normal cycles of sports and only care about a nice annual return, sell the team, reap a huge gain and go invest in some business you do care about.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
the last line of my post was meant to be sarcastic.

But the general idea - that money doesn't solve everything - is something I do honestly believe.

I honestly believe that the Pohlads look at the team as a business. and they try to run the team so that they - the owners - do not lose money. and that is their right as owners of the business.

you apparently believe that makes the Pohlads "a bunch of greedy f*cking tightwads" - because they don't want to lose money on a business they own.

I do not understand - I truly, honestly do not understand - why a sports team belongs in a different class of business. or why the net worth of a business owner means they should be willing to lose money while operating a business.

now, there is a broader discussion to be had about the economics of baseball. but given the current state of affairs, I do not blame the owners for choosing to operate the team like a business.
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I don’t give a shit about the payroll. The problem that I and I think most fans have is that they took a playoff winning, seriously contending team for the first time in years and actively made it worse. They didn’t even try to maintain what they had. Especially in the starting pitching staff.
 

howeda7 said:
This was one of those years where going for it makes sense to go all in and they crapped all over it with extremely naive and short-sighted decision making and even worse PR. If you don't care about winning, and can't or don't want to operate within the normal cycles of sports and only care about a nice annual return, sell the team, reap a huge gain and go invest in some business you do care about.
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WilliamsArenaGuy said:
I don’t give a shit about the payroll. The problem that I and I think most fans have is that they took a playoff winning, seriously contending team for the first time in years and actively made it worse. They didn’t even try to maintain what they had. Especially in the starting pitching staff.
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Why was this the year to go all in? Because they finally broke the playoff losing streak? There was no reason to believe that the stars were aligning this year for a special run. There wasn't a platoon of can't miss prospects in the minors ready to join the vets to set the major leagues on fire.

Gray parlayed a career year into an insane 3 year/$75M contract with a 4th year option for $30M. He was 8-8 with the Twins and certainly wasn't the ace of the staff. His career record after 12 seasons was 98-85. Should the Twins have gone "all in" he'd be as 'productive' into his late 30s? I frankly don't think that he would've signed here even if the pay was equal because he HATED the way he was pulled by the staff in 2022. Gray has come off the IR and done quite well this year.

Maeda, coming off of TJ surgery, had a staggering 6-8 record in 2023 with a 4.23 ERA. He was horrible in the post season. The Tigers gave a 2 year/$24M contract to a 36 year old pitcher who is clearly in the twilight of his career. He's currently sporting an ERA of just under 6. Should the Twins have gone 'all in' with Maeda?

I get the frustration but baseball is a long season. The team certainly has struggled early with injuries but they just swept the Sox. Let's see if they can gather a little momentum and improve their play before some of the injured players return before we fully write off the team.
 

ecoperson said:
Why was this the year to go all in? Because they finally broke the playoff losing streak? There was no reason to believe that the stars were aligning this year for a special run. There wasn't a platoon of can't miss prospects in the minors ready to join the vets to set the major leagues on fire.

Gray parlayed a career year into an insane 3 year/$75M contract with a 4th year option for $30M. He was 8-8 with the Twins and certainly wasn't the ace of the staff. His career record after 12 seasons was 98-85. Should the Twins have gone "all in" he'd be as 'productive' into his late 30s? I frankly don't think that he would've signed here even if the pay was equal because he HATED the way he was pulled by the staff in 2022. Gray has come off the IR and done quite well this year.

Maeda, coming off of TJ surgery, had a staggering 6-8 record in 2023 with a 4.23 ERA. He was horrible in the post season. The Tigers gave a 2 year/$24M contract to a 36 year old pitcher who is clearly in the twilight of his career. He's currently sporting an ERA of just under 6. Should the Twins have gone 'all in' with Maeda?

I get the frustration but baseball is a long season. The team certainly has struggled early with injuries but they just swept the Sox. Let's see if they can gather a little momentum and improve their play before some of the injured players return before we fully write off the team.
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Because last year was their best season in a long time and the division is there for the taking. Also, there is no Dodgers equivalent in the AL. I don't mean "all in" like have a payroll of $200 million. But at least keep the core or replace Sonny Gray with someone similar on a one year deal instead of cutting $30 million off of payroll and playing the "poor us" card.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
the last line of my post was meant to be sarcastic.

But the general idea - that money doesn't solve everything - is something I do honestly believe.

I honestly believe that the Pohlads look at the team as a business. and they try to run the team so that they - the owners - do not lose money. and that is their right as owners of the business.

you apparently believe that makes the Pohlads "a bunch of greedy f*cking tightwads" - because they don't want to lose money on a business they own.

I do not understand - I truly, honestly do not understand - why a sports team belongs in a different class of business. or why the net worth of a business owner means they should be willing to lose money while operating a business.

now, there is a broader discussion to be had about the economics of baseball. but given the current state of affairs, I do not blame the owners for choosing to operate the team like a business.
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You sound like you're interviewing for the Pohlad family PR spokesman position. Seriously.

There is no credible argument that they've lost money. Carl Pohlad purchased the team 40 years ago for $44 million. The team is conservatively worth $1.4 or $1.5 billion, and if they were to sell it they would most likely fetch $2 billion or more.

But even using the conservative figure of $1.4 billion, that is an annualized return averaging 9% for the past 40 years. If you use the more realistic figure of $2 billion, that is north of a 10% average return. AVERAGING a double-figure return for 4 decades - you can't do that anywhere without a huge horseshoe up your ass.

And, moreover, the current owners did literally nothing to deserve any of that other than winning the genetic lottery. And you want to be an apologist for them. I'm literally gobsmacked.

A sports team is so obviously a different class of business that it's not even worth discussion. If you don't want to do everything within reason to win as much and as often as you can, you're not in it for the right reasons. Going into on occasional annual operating deficit when your asset is averaging a double-digit annual return is more than reasonable to do when the entire basis of your business is the goodwill and support of the general public.
 

Yep, echoing what other folks have said. I don't expect them to spend with the big boys, but I don't expect them to shed payroll after winning the division and being the clear favorites to win it again.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was reading an Aaron Gleeman "mailbag" article in The Athletic. one or two questions that actually dealt with baseball, and the rest was Gleeman and the readers bashing the ownership and front office.

Haven't watched it yet, but apparently Gleeman was on the "Foul Territory" YouTube show the other day with AJ Pierzynski and that turned into a 'Pohlad bashing' session.

look - the owners cut the payroll. I know that. you know that. everybody knows that. at some point can we please stop obsessing over the payroll and just see how the team does?

the payroll is not making players take called 3rd strikes. the payroll is not making Farmer unable to hit. the payroll did not make Lewis tear a quad, or Correa pull an intercostal.

The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. that is not a typo. The White Sox have a higher payroll than the Twins. So they should be better than the Twins, because payroll is the only thing that matters........right?
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Since you graciously provided context, to a post of mine from The Athletic regarding the FO, I thought I would reciprocate (regarding ownership); sharing is caring🤗

From the aforementioned “Mail Bag” article by Gleeman, see specific fan question below regarding payroll and his reply.

With how the Twins have performed so far after trimming payroll, would the Pohlads raise payroll next year to field a more competitive team? — Rand C.

That would be nice, but I’d be absolutely shocked.

Ownership slashed payroll by $30 million following a division-winning season and the Twins’ first playoff series victory in 20 years. It’s tough to imagine them reversing course and returning payroll to 2023 levels after a disappointing, non-playoff season, particularly when that would no doubt involve lower attendance than expected and other revenue shortfalls.

On some level, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Owners say they’re losing money, so they lower payroll. That weakens the team, which lowers fan interest and revenue. And then the whole cycle repeats itself, except this offseason the Twins would be attempting to secure a new local television contract coming off a year in which ratings and interest in their product declined. Good luck.

Winning cures everything, of course, and the Twins still have plenty of time to turn things around on the field. But off the field, cynicism is beyond warranted.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
Since you graciously provided context, to a post of mine from The Athletic regarding the FO, I thought I would reciprocate (regarding ownership); sharing is caring🤗

Not sure why this wasn’t included, unless Joey P. gave you a bonus not to🤣 - what number is he on your speed dial?

From the aforementioned “Mail Bag” article by Gleeman, see specific fan question below regarding payroll and his reply.

With how the Twins have performed so far after trimming payroll, would the Pohlads raise payroll next year to field a more competitive team? — Rand C.

That would be nice, but I’d be absolutely shocked.

Ownership slashed payroll by $30 million following a division-winning season and the Twins’ first playoff series victory in 20 years. It’s tough to imagine them reversing course and returning payroll to 2023 levels after a disappointing, non-playoff season, particularly when that would no doubt involve lower attendance than expected and other revenue shortfalls.

On some level, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Owners say they’re losing money, so they lower payroll. That weakens the team, which lowers fan interest and revenue. And then the whole cycle repeats itself, except this offseason the Twins would be attempting to secure a new local television contract coming off a year in which ratings and interest in their product declined. Good luck.

Winning cures everything, of course, and the Twins still have plenty of time to turn things around on the field. But off the field, cynicism is beyond warranted.
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The Twins payroll may well end up being like potato chip bags - once it’s shrunk, it’s not going back to the original size.

The angle he missed in his reply regarding payroll, is if the Twins do win the division, thats proof that the extra $30M was extraneous,

Reminds me in my sales career, if a guy was crushing it, sometimes they got tired of cutting fat checks to one person, it wasn’t unheard of to have their territory reduced. The theroy was hopefully two people could work it harder and generate more coin - it rarely worked. Management frequently wants to you to do more with less.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
The Twins payroll may well end up being like potato chip bags - once it’s shrunk, it’s not going back to the original size.

The angle he missed in his reply regarding payroll, is if the Twins do win the division, thats proof that the extra $30M was extraneous,

Reminds me in my sales career, if a guy was crushing it, sometimes they got tired of cutting fat checks to one person, it wasn’t unheard of to have their territory reduced. The theroy was hopefully two people could work it harder and generate more coin - it rarely worked. Management frequently wants to you to do less with more.
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Cut dirt, raise quota, pay less!
 

dpodoll68 said:
You sound like you're interviewing for the Pohlad family PR spokesman position. Seriously.

There is no credible argument that they've lost money. Carl Pohlad purchased the team 40 years ago for $44 million. The team is conservatively worth $1.4 or $1.5 billion, and if they were to sell it they would most likely fetch $2 billion or more.

But even using the conservative figure of $1.4 billion, that is an annualized return averaging 9% for the past 40 years. If you use the more realistic figure of $2 billion, that is north of a 10% average return. AVERAGING a double-figure return for 4 decades - you can't do that anywhere without a huge horseshoe up your ass.

And, moreover, the current owners did literally nothing to deserve any of that other than winning the genetic lottery. And you want to be an apologist for them. I'm literally gobsmacked.

A sports team is so obviously a different class of business that it's not even worth discussion. If you don't want to do everything within reason to win as much and as often as you can, you're not in it for the right reasons. Going into on occasional annual operating deficit when your asset is averaging a double-digit annual return is more than reasonable to do when the entire basis of your business is the goodwill and support of the general public.
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Fans have every right to be pissed that the Pohlad family didn't break the piggy bank this year but
the team's value on the open market has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of cash flow available to spend on player salaries.

My grandparents' home appreciated over the decades to astronomical levels but they couldn't afford to pay for the upkeep. They couldn't qualify for a home equity loan because they had no income other than SS and couldn't even do a reverse mortgage because they had let the property detiorate. They eventually gave in and sold out.

The Pohlads expected a cash flow deficit this year with the broadcasting fiasco and made a business decision to be more conservative with the payroll. The Pohlads certainly shouldn't be expected to take a loss this year just to try to win the damn Central again. This team did not have the look of a serious contender last year and wasn't a player or two away from doing so this year. Why overextend this year?

You can't seriously expect owners to write checks out of their personal bank accounts! Owners don't mix up the finances of their business enterprises either. Glen Taylor doesn't pull profits from the printing company to pay Ant, Gobert, and KAT.

The Pohlads don't owe us anything. They've earned our 'goodwill' by not selling the team. The team was destined for contraction in the early 00s because the Twins couldn't generate the revenue. Prior to that, we all remember the talk about selling the team and moving them to North Carolina or Nashville.

I'd rather have a team with a smaller payroll in 2024 than no team at all. Once the broadcast uncertainty is over, the Pohlads will again support strategic investment in the team. We may not be the Dodgers but they will return to a slightly less than average payroll with occasional pops when the situation warrants.
 

ecoperson said:
I'd rather have a team with a smaller payroll in 2024 than no team at all. Once the broadcast uncertainty is over, the Pohlads will again support strategic investment in the team. We may not be the Dodgers but they will return to a slightly less than average payroll with occasional pops when the situation warrants.
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I think a lot of this is about the TV situation. you can argue that the Pohlads panicked or over-reacted when they got caught in limbo on the local TV decision.

But - point I should have made sooner. The Twins, under the Pohlads, have had a stated policy that roughly 50% of their expected revenue goes to payroll. when they were getting $55-Million from Diamond, they raised the payroll to a record high level at $156-Million. when some of the TV money went away, they lowered the payroll.

quote from Derek Falvey last November:

"We've pushed our payroll to heights that we had never pushed it before with the support, certainly, of ownership. We know there is some natural ebb and flow to that," Falvey told media Tuesday, as was first reported by Bobby Nightengale Jr. of the Star Tribune.

"Will it be where it was last year? I don't expect that. I expect it less than that."

and - according to published reports, at least 9 MLB teams cut their payrolls this season. 30% of MLB teams have lower payrolls compared to last year. It's not like the Twins are the only team in this situation.
 



Breakin' The Plane said:
Correa is looming, roster move coming. It'll probably be Miranda, but Farmer and Santana should be on notice.
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They’ll have a longer leash, I’m guessing because of their contracts and Twins’ rep for they treat veterans, plus Miranda’s got to have some options left, right?
 

Sanó got hosed on that called 3rd strike. Looks solid playing the hot corner.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
They’ll have a longer leash, I’m guessing because of their contracts and Twins’ rep for they treat veterans, plus Miranda’s got to have some options left, right?
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It's early. But Farmer looks lost. And Martin can play every position that Farmer can (plus more). But the money's already spent, so...
 

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