A positive: Wisconsin's #1 (Parish) a Gopher

[Badger_inohiovalley]

More likely, Bielema knew he had no chance so he didn't offer him to save face.

Parish played for Tom Taraska at Heartland Arrowhead. Had Wisconsin had him rated at a place where they wanted him, they'd have walked in and offered at any point and had a hell of a chance to close the deal. They didn't offer. We'll find out if their evaluation to select Brennan ahead of Parish is correct.

As for how they were evaluated, both players had their offers in the spring - Brennan's list is the more impressive one. I'll take college recruiters, who's jobs are on the line, over a star system. That's won Wisconsin 10 Bowl games (including 3 Rose Bowls) in the last 17 years. When they misevaluate, they lose their jobs. The guys at the websites' ratings are forgotten shortly after they are printed.

At the end of the day, both of these players could wind up never seeing the field. Players have come in ahead of them, and players will come in behind them. Somehow thinking that Tom Parish is the missing ingredient to ending the domination of this rivalry by Wisconsin is shortsighted. Until a change is made, Brewster is your coach. We'll be content to not worry in Madison as long as that is the case.

 

[CWCWCW]

Until a change is made, Brewster is your coach. We'll be content to not worry in Madison as long as that is the case.

Things don't change for us overnight. There is a slight hint of evidence that Brewster can get it done, but there is more evidence that Bielema is eroding Bucky's program. Brett is beating the lower tier Big 10 teams, but he has a very un-Barry like record with the big boys.

 

[gophmeister]

Somehow thinking that Tom Parish is the missing ingredient to ending the domination of this rivalry by Wisconsin is shortsighted. Until a change is made, Brewster is your coach. We'll be content to not worry in Madison as long as that is the case.

Man you were a dink 10 years and you're just as bad now.

 

[MNBadgerGuy]

Things don't change for us overnight. There is a slight hint of evidence that Brewster can get it done, but there is more evidence that Bielema is eroding Bucky's program. Brett is beating the lower tier Big 10 teams, but he has a very un-Barry like record with the big boys.

This is what I just don't get. Where is this evidence that Bielema is eroding UW's program? The youngest team in the conference just went 10-3 handily beating a top 15 Miami team in a bowl game. I get that UM and UW are rivals, but blatantly making things up as evidence that the program is somehow eroding is just asinine.

Oh well. I'm very happy with BB as coach of our program, and very happy TB is coach of UM.

 

[MNBadgerGuy]

no my point was after you said your guy is better because he has more offers, I wondered why some rate parish better.......game, set match

you dont have a clue who is better....hell you dont even know what they look like......LMAO

What??? Good argument, I guess you win the game, set and match...

 

[dpodoll68]

This is what I just don't get. Where is this evidence that Bielema is eroding UW's program? The youngest team in the conference just went 10-3 handily beating a top 15 Miami team in a bowl game. I get that UM and UW are rivals, but blatantly making things up as evidence that the program is somehow eroding is just asinine.

Oh well. I'm very happy with BB as coach of our program, and very happy TB is coach of UM.

Handily? Handily? If you call Miami having the ball and a chance to win the game at the end "handily", then by all means, be my guest.

In no way, shape or form is a one-score game a "handling". The delusion continues in Badgerland.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Things don't change for us overnight. There is a slight hint of evidence that Brewster can get it done, but there is more evidence that Bielema is eroding Bucky's program. Brett is beating the lower tier Big 10 teams, but he has a very un-Barry like record with the big boys.

Bielema and Wisconsin have records of 12-1, 9-4, 7-6, and 10-3. That's a Gopher fans wet dream. The "erosion" of the program you claim to see would be the pinnacle for a guy like Brewster. Like I said, we'll let you know when he has us nervous. Bielema's got two bowl wins you guys would dance in the streets over.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Handily? Handily? If you call Miami having the ball and a chance to win the game at the end "handily", then by all means, be my guest.

In no way, shape or form is a one-score game a "handling". The delusion continues in Badgerland.

When you can't win the arguement, you have to turn to semantics.

Anyone who watched that game saw the dominance. You can cling to the score. What we are discussing was the physical dominance of the U. Their inability to block the Badgers front seven or the lack of athleticism in covering their TEs. That's where the Badgers dominated the game.

Glad we didn't have to face mighty Iowa State.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Man you were a dink 10 years and you're just as bad now.

LOL! Some things never change. UW keeps pushing Minnesota around. And guys like you can't handle the truth. Kim Royston is going to be the only non-redshirting Gopher player to have touched the axe in the last four years.

I guess those realities make us Badger fans dinks. Someone get a chair leg. And get the excape route planned.

 

[grunkiejr]

As for how they were evaluated, both players had their offers in the spring - Brennan's list is the more impressive one. I'll take college recruiters, who's jobs are on the line, over a star system. That's won Wisconsin 10 Bowl games (including 3 Rose Bowls) in the last 17 years. When they misevaluate, they lose their jobs. The guys at the websites' ratings are forgotten shortly after they are printed.

You show a lack of understanding of how QB recruiting works. QB is normally the first position targeted by schools. They throw out offers to their top candidates and as dominoes fall the QB's remaining end up with a lot of offers. The recruitment of Parish lasted all of two weeks. He sent out his video to Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin. Minnesota offered and he came to visit the following weekend with his father. I don't remember if he committed on his visit or after discussing it with his father on the way home but he was committed before the following Monday--thereby preventing anyone else from taking his position in the recruiting class.

Brennan got a lot of offers because he stuck around longer and everybody that missed on plan A and plan B started offering plan C (Brennan).

QB is the one position where evaluating a player based on offers can be misleading.

 

[MNBadgerGuy]

Handily? Handily? If you call Miami having the ball and a chance to win the game at the end "handily", then by all means, be my guest.

In no way, shape or form is a one-score game a "handling". The delusion continues in Badgerland.

Well then all reporters covering the game must be delusional. Everything I read regarding the game concluded that Wisconsin physically dominated the game.

Look, I'm not trashing the U, nor am I trashing Parish. For all anyone knows he could end up an all B10 QB someday. Just saying, as has been mentioned before in this thread, that Parish was somewhere down the list of QBs that the UW staff was after. Maybe they mis-evaluated him, I guess we'll find out in the coming 4-5 years.

 

[grunkiejr]

...Parish was somewhere down the list of QBs that the UW staff was after.

That isn't actually accurate.

 

[GVBadger]

That isn't actually accurate.

Well, he didn't get an offer, so who knows how high he was on the list. Maybe if the Badgers don't get Brennan, they would have offered him. It is all conjecture at this point.

And for accuracy, he was the number two rated player in Wisconsin by Rivals. There were 15 three star players in Wisconsin which is very rare. There are also no four star players. That is rare as well. Usually there are 2 or 3 in every class.

The Badgers were not going to sign 15 in state players. They never have and they never will. Given that fact, some were sure to go elsewhere.

Parrish was one of them. As were Epping and Eggan. I hope they all are successful at Minnesota. It will be interesting to see who has better careers when all is said and done, those three or the three guys the Badgers offered instead of them. The good news is there will be no guessing. It will all play out on the field.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

You show a lack of understanding of how QB recruiting works.

I am fully aware of how QB recruiting works. I'm not new to observing it.

If you go back and re-read my original post, I said that it mattered not that Parish was offered and committed to Minnesota for Wisconsin not to offer if they wanted him, like we saw with Bielema deciding that he's like Konrad Zagzebski to have a UW offer. Wisconsin would not back away from a Minnesota offer to a kid from Tom Taraska's Arrowhead program. And if they had wanted him, I have all the confidence in the world that he'd be wearing red next season.

The same can be said for Miami. If Miami had wanted Parish, they would not have been scared off by a second rate Big Ten program. But they felt that Joe Brennan and others were better players. Same with Pittsburgh and the rest.

This doesn't mean Parish can't be good.

You guys want to discuss hypotheticals, go ahead. We know what we observed. One player had better offers. One player chose a team that struggles to reach .500 each season. We'll see how it plays out between the liines.....like each year with you guys, you want to discuss how the UW is in a downward spiral only to have an empty trophy case back in Minnesota, a lethargic fanbase, and a 3rd tier bowl loss.

 

[bankonit]

I am fully aware of how QB recruiting works. I'm not new to observing it.

If you go back and re-read my original post, I said that it mattered not that Parish was offered and committed to Minnesota for Wisconsin not to offer if they wanted him, like we saw with Bielema deciding that he's like Konrad Zagzebski to have a UW offer. Wisconsin would not back away from a Minnesota offer to a kid from Tom Taraska's Arrowhead program. And if they had wanted him, I have all the confidence in the world that he'd be wearing red next season.

The same can be said for Miami. If Miami had wanted Parish, they would not have been scared off by a second rate Big Ten program. But they felt that Joe Brennan and others were better players. Same with Pittsburgh and the rest.

This doesn't mean Parish can't be good.

You guys want to discuss hypotheticals, go ahead. We know what we observed. One player had better offers. One player chose a team that struggles to reach .500 each season. We'll see how it plays out between the liines.....like each year with you guys, you want to discuss how the UW is in a downward spiral only to have an empty trophy case back in Minnesota, a lethargic fanbase, and a 3rd tier bowl loss.

What team struggles to reach .500? I know the Gophers were a few points from winning 9 games.

 

[Jeshurun]

More positive remindering about our pending 2010 class: we may be on the verge of losing our state's #1 , but we are on the verge of signing Wisconsin's #1, Tom Parish. Not too shabby after that fat turkey-neck a-hole's comments about recruiting in state in Minnesota.

PS- I am aware Parish is currently ranked #2 in WI by Rivals, but take a look at the current #1 Mike Hardy. He was demoted to a 5.6 (below Parish) but the rankings weren't updated.

Wisconsin cooled on him.

 

[wait!what?]

I am fully aware of how QB recruiting works. I'm not new to observing it.

If you go back and re-read my original post, I said that it mattered not that Parish was offered and committed to Minnesota for Wisconsin not to offer if they wanted him, like we saw with Bielema deciding that he's like Konrad Zagzebski to have a UW offer. Wisconsin would not back away from a Minnesota offer to a kid from Tom Taraska's Arrowhead program. And if they had wanted him, I have all the confidence in the world that he'd be wearing red next season.

The same can be said for Miami. If Miami had wanted Parish, they would not have been scared off by a second rate Big Ten program. But they felt that Joe Brennan and others were better players. Same with Pittsburgh and the rest.

This doesn't mean Parish can't be good.

You guys want to discuss hypotheticals, go ahead. We know what we observed. One player had better offers. One player chose a team that struggles to reach .500 each season. We'll see how it plays out between the liines.....like each year with you guys, you want to discuss how the UW is in a downward spiral only to have an empty trophy case back in Minnesota, a lethargic fanbase, and a 3rd tier bowl loss.

trying, to read. this post. Is Kind of giving, me a headache.

 

[eag35]

The Gophers were only a few points from winning 9 games...that post is precious. I needed a good laugh today.

No, heaven's no! We didnt struggle to .500! We only missed 9 wins by a few points! Heck, let's push for "almost wins" for next year to count too, just like a tie in hockey! Maybe then Brewster can get us to January 1 bowl...

 

[badnjanes]

Surprise that little Timmy does not have a spot for those almost wins in his great coaching records.

 

[grunkiejr]

I am fully aware of how QB recruiting works. I'm not new to observing it.

If you go back and re-read my original post, I said that it mattered not that Parish was offered and committed to Minnesota for Wisconsin not to offer if they wanted him, like we saw with Bielema deciding that he's like Konrad Zagzebski to have a UW offer. Wisconsin would not back away from a Minnesota offer to a kid from Tom Taraska's Arrowhead program. And if they had wanted him, I have all the confidence in the world that he'd be wearing red next season.

The same can be said for Miami. If Miami had wanted Parish, they would not have been scared off by a second rate Big Ten program. But they felt that Joe Brennan and others were better players. Same with Pittsburgh and the rest.

This doesn't mean Parish can't be good.

You guys want to discuss hypotheticals, go ahead. We know what we observed. One player had better offers. One player chose a team that struggles to reach .500 each season. We'll see how it plays out between the liines.....like each year with you guys, you want to discuss how the UW is in a downward spiral only to have an empty trophy case back in Minnesota, a lethargic fanbase, and a 3rd tier bowl loss.

I know you're trying to use Miami here to somehow prove your point because they are a historically great program but they don't really help you here. Miami's class isn't up to former Miami standards (26 commitments with a 3.15 star average) and Miami missed on a bunch of QB's in this class. Blake Bell was target #1 for Miami but he committed to Oklahoma. Then they went hard after Andrew Hendrix only to see him commit to Notre Dame (after Notre Dame missed on Jake Heaps & Nick Montana). They targeted AJ Derby but they were never really a player in his recruitment and he ended up at Iowa. They targeted Dallas Lloyd but he committed to Stanford. With those guys off their board they pushed for Brennan and missed. In all they targeted 9 different QB's and finally ended up landing Stephen Morris in August (very late for QB recruiting at an elite BCS school). Some of the other guys they offered ended up at UCF, TCU and Florida International--all committed after Miami got their QB--but those are not the schools you expect Miami to be in recruiting battles against.

The point being, the date a QB commits can actually tell you more than the offers he received because that tells you how many dominoes fell before he committed. You are still trying to defend an inferior QB prospect by pointing to offers and hopefully I made it even more clear the second time why that doesn't work with QB prospects.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

You are still trying to defend an inferior QB prospect by pointing to offers and hopefully I made it even more clear the second time why that doesn't work with QB prospects.

That's the line of the day. Inferior to who?

And if you didn't notice, Miami will start the season ranked in the top 15.....with Wisconsin. Some programs are just inferior to places like those. You know how that works in Minnesota.

EDIT:

Grunkie.....If it makes you feel better, I will happily admit that Brennan wasn't Miami's top target and will meanwhile point out that Tom Parish was no one's target down the line. As I said, no team is scared off by a Minnesota commit from a Wisconsin kid....least of all, the Badgers. You and I (and the Parish family) all know that AJ Derby was always going to be a Hawkeye. So even that offer to Tom surely had strings attached.

At the end of the day, one player had more options from better teams - first and foremost, Wisconsin who is a clearly superior program to Minnesota as demonstrated between the lines. There is no way that Tom Parish is a Gopher if Wisconsin had wanted him. See: Zagzebski, Konrad. Players grow up in Wisconsin wanting to play for the Badgers - especially Heartland Arrowhead. Not for a team that struggles to reach a bowl and gets beat when there.

It's important to note your place in the order of things. Minnesota is a third rate program. No way around it.

 

[KD6-3.7]

That's the line of the day. Inferior to who?

Parish.

And if you didn't notice, Miami will start the season ranked in the top 15.....with Wisconsin. Some programs are just inferior to places like those. You know how that works in Minnesota.

congrats on being perennially overranked. the badgers had ONE good win last year. i hate wisconsin but i admitted that wisconsin played well against miami. color me unimpressed on the other nine wins (only ONE of which came against a team with a winning record, the mighty california state university fresno a team that pipped illinois by one). [/QUOTE]

EDIT:

Grunkie.....If it makes you feel better, I will happily admit that Brennan wasn't Miami's top target and will meanwhile point out that Tom Parish was no one's target down the line. As I said, no team is scared off by a Minnesota commit from a Wisconsin kid....least of all, the Badgers. You and I (and the Parish family) all know that AJ Derby was always going to be a Hawkeye. So even that offer to Tom surely had strings attached.

THE GUY COMMITTED IN MARCH! are you really saying that he would not have picked up any more offers had he stayed open until september? because that is preposterous.

At the end of the day, one player had more options from better teams - first and foremost, Wisconsin who is a clearly superior program to Minnesota as demonstrated between the lines.

you keep riding that euphoria of beating a mediocre sub-.500 team. although, the margin of victory was not much to be excited over.

There is no way that Tom Parish is a Gopher if Wisconsin had wanted him. See: Zagzebski, Konrad.

i almost rooted for wisconsin against miami, but this is exactly why i didn't. for all of miami's fan's arrogance, they pail in comparison to wisconsin's fan's arrogance which is only dwarfed by their delusion. please post a link or any other objective piece of data that shows that parish would have chosen wisconsin had he received an offer. your self parody would be funny if it was intentional.

Players grow up in Wisconsin wanting to play for the Badgers - especially Heartland Arrowhead. Not for a team that struggles to reach a bowl and gets beat when there.

It's important to note your place in the order of things. Minnesota is a third rate program. No way around it.

it is important to note your delusion, wisconsin *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# stinks. and the fact that you and all your little buddies compulsively troll this board as well as every other minnesota board shows your inferiority. Minnesota fans have enough class to realize that what goes around comes around. but then when that happens you certainly won't be here, you will be decrying in your pointless, pathetic little life.

 

[eker0016]

I wanted to add to BigTenChamp's message about Wisconsin's fabled dominance. I'll give you an analysis of both schedules:

Common games:
Head to head (WIS win by 3 points - most important)
Michigan State (both win)
Purdue (both win)
Ohio State (both lose)
Iowa (both lose)
Northwestern (MN wins, WIS loses)

Analagous opponents:
Illinois/Indiana (MN loss/WIS win)
South Dakota State/Wofford (both win)
Air Force Academy/Fresno State (both win)
Syracuse/Northern Illinois: (both win)
Cal/Miami (MN loss/WI win)

Dissimilar opponents:
Average ISU team: MN loss
Weak Michigan team: WIS win
Strong PSU team: MN loss
Weak Hawaii team: WIS win

What I see here is:
a. WIS was a solidly average team that took care of business. They beat everyone they were supposed to be besides Northwestern, and they lost to everyone they were supposed to except Miami.
b. MN was a slightly below average team that took care of business against a lot of solid teams (AFA, NW, MSU) but also dropped a couple to a team it was significantly better than (Illinois).
c. WIS got to play Michigan and Indiana while we played PSU and Illinois. I think if we trade those two games we win both and the Badgers lose to PSU.

The basic point of my showing this schedule is to show that I don't think the Gophers and the Badgers were such different teams last season. If we played the last 5-6 games like we played the first 5-6 I think we beat Illinois, ISU and have a great shot against a hurt Iowa. No way we beat PSU or OSU.

Thoughts?

 

[Gopher Realist62]

I wanted to add to BigTenChamp's message about Wisconsin's fabled dominance. I'll give you an analysis of both schedules:

Common games:
Head to head (WIS win by 3 points - most important)
Michigan State (both win)
Purdue (both win)
Ohio State (both lose)
Iowa (both lose)
Northwestern (MN wins, WIS loses)

Analagous opponents:
Illinois/Indiana (MN loss/WIS win)
South Dakota State/Wofford (both win)
Air Force Academy/Fresno State (both win)
Syracuse/Northern Illinois: (both win)
Cal/Miami (MN loss/WI win)

Dissimilar opponents:
Average ISU team: MN loss
Weak Michigan team: WIS win
Strong PSU team: MN loss
Weak Hawaii team: WIS win

What I see here is:
a. WIS was a solidly average team that took care of business. They beat everyone they were supposed to be besides Northwestern, and they lost to everyone they were supposed to except Miami.
b. MN was a slightly below average team that took care of business against a lot of solid teams (AFA, NW, MSU) but also dropped a couple to a team it was significantly better than (Illinois).
c. WIS got to play Michigan and Indiana while we played PSU and Illinois. I think if we trade those two games we win both and the Badgers lose to PSU.

The basic point of my showing this schedule is to show that I don't think the Gophers and the Badgers were such different teams last season. If we played the last 5-6 games like we played the first 5-6 I think we beat Illinois, ISU and have a great shot against a hurt Iowa. No way we beat PSU or OSU.

Thoughts?

Last year is OVER and we failed to record a significant victory. Look forward to more of the same this fall...

 

[KD6-3.7]

I wanted to add to BigTenChamp's message about Wisconsin's fabled dominance. I'll give you an analysis of both schedules:

Common games:
Head to head (WIS win by 3 points - most important)
Michigan State (both win)
Purdue (both win)
Ohio State (both lose)
Iowa (both lose)
Northwestern (MN wins, WIS loses)

Analagous opponents:
Illinois/Indiana (MN loss/WIS win)
South Dakota State/Wofford (both win)
Air Force Academy/Fresno State (both win)
Syracuse/Northern Illinois: (both win)
Cal/Miami (MN loss/WI win)

Dissimilar opponents:
Average ISU team: MN loss
Weak Michigan team: WIS win
Strong PSU team: MN loss
Weak Hawaii team: WIS win

What I see here is:
a. WIS was a solidly average team that took care of business. They beat everyone they were supposed to be besides Northwestern, and they lost to everyone they were supposed to except Miami.
b. MN was a slightly below average team that took care of business against a lot of solid teams (AFA, NW, MSU) but also dropped a couple to a team it was significantly better than (Illinois).
c. WIS got to play Michigan and Indiana while we played PSU and Illinois. I think if we trade those two games we win both and the Badgers lose to PSU.

The basic point of my showing this schedule is to show that I don't think the Gophers and the Badgers were such different teams last season. If we played the last 5-6 games like we played the first 5-6 I think we beat Illinois, ISU and have a great shot against a hurt Iowa. No way we beat PSU or OSU.

Thoughts?

great points, all.

with the exception of beating miami, which i agree was a nice win, wisconsin was the very definition of a paper tiger last season.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Thoughts?

12 of 14. That is utter dominance in this rivalry. You can reason anything away. The near wins. The near losses. 12 of 14 speaks for itself. Everything else is just window dressing.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Hey 1899.....your post reads:

"I HAVE AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX!"

So save yourself the typing time and just post that next time.

 

[KD6-3.7]

12 of 14. That is utter dominance in this rivalry. You can reason anything away. The near wins. The near losses. 12 of 14 speaks for itself. Everything else is just window dressing.

no one mentioned the rivalry. this is classic badger delusion. you speak reason to fantasy and it is 'window dressing'. it is impossible to have a rational conversation with sconnites.

 

[MBAGuy]

Last year is OVER and we failed to record a significant victory. Look forward to more of the same this fall...

So, and I just want to make this clear, you're actually looking forward to us losing next year?

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

no one mentioned the rivalry. this is classic badger delusion. you speak reason to fantasy and it is 'window dressing'. it is impossible to have a rational conversation with sconnites.

So some Gopher fans analysis of the UW schedule constitutes rational conversation? ROFLMAO!

That line outdid grunkie's of earlier today!