Fox 9: AD Mark Coyle belives better days ahead for Gophers Football

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DLguy said:
I am not a lawyer, but I am certain that distribution of those types of images are much more serious when it involves a minor.
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Dude - he's not a minor in this context. This is not debatable.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You and the other Coyle haters are making stuff up and lumping him into saying and doing the things that Kaler did. What Coyle and Kaler did are two different independent things. 99% of your and others issues are with Kaler.

Those kids were expelled from school based on the EOAA report. Coyle had nothing to do with that.

Coyle said 'he's our coach' and that was before the EOAA report came out. He never said anything about a contract extension etc. Coyle didn't say anything publicly about suspended kids 'due to privacy issues'. He never called them rapists. Kaler was the one who spoke publicly although he didn't call them rapists either.

The only thing you got right was your last sentence.

Many people's issues on here are really issues with Kaler. The main reason why there are people mad at Coyle is because he fired their favorite coach.
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We know that Coyle directly received the police report that included information that a recruit was involved. So you believe he didn't read the report, and just gave it to Claeys, and allowed him to deal with it without providing any input on what should be done ? If that's true, it was poor job performance on his part. If he did read it and allowed Claeys to decide to not further suspend some players, it was poor job performance for him to not over-rule Claeys if he disagreed. He was his supervisor after all.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You and the other Coyle haters are making stuff up and lumping him into saying and doing the things that Kaler did. What Coyle and Kaler did are two different independent things. 99% of your and others issues are with Kaler.

Those kids were expelled from school based on the EOAA report. Coyle had nothing to do with that.

Coyle said 'he's our coach' and that was before the EOAA report came out. He never said anything about a contract extension etc. Coyle didn't say anything publicly about suspended kids 'due to privacy issues'. He never called them rapists. Kaler was the one who spoke publicly although he didn't call them rapists either.

The only thing you got right was your last sentence.

Many people's issues on here are really issues with Kaler. The main reason why there are people mad at Coyle is because he fired their favorite coach.
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Kaler needs to be fired as well, and from appearances, that will happen in May. You're right, he did as much damage.

I never said Coyle expelled anyone, and as a point of fact, no one has been expelled, yet.

Let me ask a few simple yes or no questions to help you see where I'm coming from:

Did Coyle suspend the kids from returning to the team until the full process had played out having seen the police report? No.

Did Coyle step up and demonstrate public leadership for the Athletic Department in a Crisis? No.

Did Coyle announce the suspensions? Yes. I get your point there is no one single statement brings it all together, but the number of comments made that link it all to the original situation, but he is a part of the administration and his comments along with Kaler's contributed. I'm not saying he made as big a mistake as Kaler -- he's too savvy for that. Some of this is situational. What could he do, right?

Did Coyle say the following in his news conference: "We need strong leadership to take Gopher football to the next level and address these challenges. This decision is about the future of Minnesota football. Moving forward, we need a leader who sets high expectations athletically, academically, and socially.”? Yes.

As a contrast, here is how it was handled at Indiana: Yet yesterday word broke that Wilson had been fired. At an evening press conference, Indiana Athletic director Fred Glass revealed that Wilson had in fact resigned. Glass, a lawyer who was influential in Indianapolis politics before being named AD, blamed “philosophical differences” for the split. Glass wouldn’t elaborate - and this for a situation where the coach was directly responsible for the problems in the program.

So of all of this, are you sure my last sentence was the only thing I'm right about?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
To your first bold point, Coyle as an AD has the authority to expel kids kids from school? Man he has a lot on his plate.
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Why do you continue to pretend like Coyle wasn't in on and part of this decision? He clearly was and he stated he was. Then when sh!t hit the fan he was MIA for weeks only coming out to fire a coach and not actually answer any questions then go back into hiding.
 

caliGopher said:
Just to be clear, I have no issue that Coyle fired Claeys. That he fired Claeys is irrelevant. Given everything that transpired, I agree, Claeys knew he'd be fired, but acted anyway.

I do have issues with the way Coyle handled it. We can agree to disagree if you feel otherwise, but Coyle screwed up royally because he got personal against Claeys when he didn't need to -- he fired the man, how much more personal can it be? -- and said things that hurt both the university and the football program unnecessarily.

So Coyle's only visible actions as AD in regards to Football:

  • Let his head coach reinstate players when he had information and insights on that suggest the process would continue to unfold and it would get ugly before it got better. - My opinion, if your the AD of a power 5 school and don't know that was coming next, you should be fired.
  • Actively provided public information about a process that had not completed that expanded those involved by 100%, and by words, deed and action created an environment that suggested all 10 were rapists. This is a fireable offense in almost every corporation and public institution in this country.
  • He failed to provide public leadership when it was clear the coach could/would not do so, instead preferring to operate in the shadows (isn't that how he described his "management" style?) and avoid any association with the scandal -- unfortunately when you're the AD your job is to solve the problem not hide from it.
  • Lost his cool when performing his duties as Athletic Director and took personal shots that were both inaccurate and unnecessary. For a professional AD, not his first goat rodeo, this is, to me a fireable offense.

If he'd done one of these things, and didn't get fired, but was reprimanded, sure. But these are his four high profile actions (or inactions). When this is the body of your work, and the scandal involved is as bad as it is, you're gone -- in most cases.

I am incredibly disappointed in the press for dropping the ball in holding the admin of the U accountable for their equal roles in this mess. Kaler and Coyle fired their patsy, and that seemed to mollify what passes for a free and independent press in Minnesota these days.

Now, as for believing that Coyle didn't hire Claeys, so it's not his fault - actually, resolving this fiasco in September is MORE likely for an athletic director with no ties to the coach. Why he didn't serve notice at that point is beyond me.

Instead, he hid, and hoped it would go away and when it appeared it would, told Claeys he'd be retained -- actively searched for a coach -- then fired Claeys. That smacks of a lack of integrity on the front that he showed no concern for the alleged victim until it was politically expedient, made a comment on extending Claeys to Claeys and alluded to publicly at the end of the regular season, all the while planning to fire him after the bowl game (again, a key ingredient of a good culture was missing here -- integrity!) and then melted down on stage while firing him.

So yeah, given that this is what I've seen of Mark Coyle, making a good hire on paper doesn't really absolve him of his transgressions, and frankly, until he's fired, I'm more concerned at our ability to hold onto PJ Fleck long term. Assuming the Fleck show is genuine, he's not going to stick around and work for someone as morally ambiguous as Mark Coyle.

When Kaler is not renewed in May, the clock will star ticking on Coyle and hopefully we can get someone who wants to make a real and serious commitment to changing the way the administration and university faculty look at the athletic department, but I doubt it. Ultimately Coyle fired his patsy and nothing changed.
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Wow! I've had many of the same concerns regarding Coyles inaction. Not sure how much the scandal will affect Kaler though. Sounds like you've given it considerable thought, so it would be interesting to read your reasoning regarding Kaler not weathering the storm.
 


bigticket1 said:
We know that Coyle directly received the police report that included information that a recruit was involved. So you believe he didn't read the report, and just gave it to Claeys, and allowed him to deal with it without providing any input on what should be done ? If that's true, it was poor job performance on his part. If he did read it and allowed Claeys to decide to not further suspend some players, it was poor job performance for him to not over-rule Claeys if he disagreed. He was his supervisor after all.
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They were cleared legally and allowed to play, which would likely happen at any other school. In the meantime the EOAA did their investigation which resulted in expulsions from school, something Coyle had no control over.
 

bottlebass said:
Why do you continue to pretend like Coyle wasn't in on and part of this decision? He clearly was and he stated he was. Then when sh!t hit the fan he was MIA for weeks only coming out to fire a coach and not actually answer any questions then go back into hiding.
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Because he has no authority to expel kids from school. Yes they were expelled, read the cover letter of the EOAA report. That's on Kaler.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Because he has no authority to expel kids from school. Yes they were expelled, read the cover letter of the EOAA report. That's on Kaler.
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Nobody has been expelled. Recommended yes, but not expelled. Making egregious statements that aren't true hurt your argument greatly.
 

DLguy said:
Coyle does not have the authority to expel, suspend or put on probation. That is done by the school, not the AD. And if players are being given those sentences, he must suspend them from playing. So how is he at fault there.

It was hard to listen to the press conference of the firing, as it did get personal. But he was only correcting misinformation that had been started by Claeys to throw Coyle under the bus. Remember when Claeys stated he had not read the report? Well, we now know that Claeys was provided the entire report and was explained the suspensions. So Claeys lied. Claeys continued to play the victim with all of the players and parents instead of explaining the situations and acting like a man. He showed he had no backbone. To this day, he is still acting like the victim. He threw Coyle under the bus to his players and parents, and Coyle had to correct those items. I cant fault the guy for that.
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Ummm, I might be mistaken but he can decide if a player participates in a game, or any football related activities. IIRC the students in question are still in school, so attending class hasn't been an issue until this point.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
They were cleared legally and allowed to play, which would likely happen at any other school. In the meantime the EOAA did their investigation which resulted in expulsions from school, something Coyle had no control over.
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I thought he said he had information that others didn't... So Coyle saw the same information and had two entirely different opinions between September and January?
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
They were cleared legally and allowed to play, which would likely happen at any other school. In the meantime the EOAA did their investigation which resulted in expulsions from school, something Coyle had no control over.
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Coyle knew in September that current players had involved a recruit in the reported activities, as did Claeys if Coyle passed the report on to him. Even if the activities were not illegal, do you believe they should have at a minimum, suspended the players responsible for hosting that recruit ? If Claeys alone made that decision, should Coyle have over-ruled him ?
 

bigticket1 said:
Coyle knew in September that current players had involved a recruit in the reported activities, as did Claeys if Coyle passed the report on to him. Even if the activities were not illegal, do you believe they should have at a minimum, suspended the players responsible for hosting that recruit ? If Claeys alone made that decision, should Coyle have over-ruled him ?
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If he did suspend the players you'd all be complaining about the administration holding back sports again.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
If he did suspend the players you'd all be complaining about the administration holding back sports again.
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Most likely true until the EOAA report came out. Then we would have known why.

And taking heat for doing the right thing is a lot different than making moral decisions only when you're caught.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I'm in the "inaction is a concern" camp.

Coyle doesn't have to go to the mattresses for the players or even Tracy. But amid a mess the AD does need to take some action to address the issues, mitigate what is going on, and maybe highlight the good things going on related to the department.... and should coordinate with the coaches if he feels things are "unhelpful". Rather we saw him seemingly sit on his hands and when he finally took action / spoke he straight up seemed annoyed with having to deal with it.

It is possible that with Coyle on his hands things could have gotten out of hand, snowballed to a point he could not get out in front of it.... it didn't, but taking that risk is not acceptable for an AD IMO. He took that risk, possibly just for his own benefit / purposes.
 


Maverick said:
Nobody has been expelled. Recommended yes, but not expelled. Making egregious statements that aren't true hurt your argument greatly.
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Try reading, it's helpful in life.

Subd. 19. Violation of University Rules. Violation of University rules means engaging in conduct that violates
University, collegiate, or deparimental regulations that have been posted or publicized, including provisions
contained in University contracts with students. Specifically you were found to have violated the following:
Administrative Policv· Sexual Harassment
Administrative Policy: Sexyal Assault Stalkin~ and Relationship Violence
Subd. 21. Persistent Violations. Persistent Violations means engaging in repeated conduct or action in violation of
this Code.

As a result of these violations, you are being offered the following sanctions to resolve this matter informally:
EXPULSION: Effective immediately your University of Minnesota studentship will be ended with resultant loss of
all student rights and privileges. A disciplinary hold will be placed on your record. The hold will prevent you from
registering at the University and from obtaining your records through routine channels.

Both you and the reporting student are being notified of this outcome at the same time. Each party has the option to
request a formal hearing by the Student Sexual Misconduct Subcommittee (SSMS) if the outcome is unacceptable. If
I have not heard from either party within five business days (by December 20, 2016) of sending this letter, then the
decision will stand.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U%20of%20M%20EOAA%20redacted5.pdf
 

They're all attending classes they aren't expelled yet.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Except you haven't, not once. All talk no substance as usual.
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Blah blah blah. You are joining an elite club on my ignore list. Actually, you fit in well. Say hi to Mark for me at your next family dinner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
If he did suspend the players you'd all be complaining about the administration holding back sports again.
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My reaction is irrelevant. We have been told by many that Coyle has taken the high ground throughout this situation. Should he have taken action, considering what he knew ?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Try reading, it's helpful in life.

Subd. 19. Violation of University Rules. Violation of University rules means engaging in conduct that violates
University, collegiate, or deparimental regulations that have been posted or publicized, including provisions
contained in University contracts with students. Specifically you were found to have violated the following:
Administrative Policv· Sexual Harassment
Administrative Policy: Sexyal Assault Stalkin~ and Relationship Violence
Subd. 21. Persistent Violations. Persistent Violations means engaging in repeated conduct or action in violation of
this Code.

As a result of these violations, you are being offered the following sanctions to resolve this matter informally:
EXPULSION: Effective immediately your University of Minnesota studentship will be ended with resultant loss of
all student rights and privileges. A disciplinary hold will be placed on your record. The hold will prevent you from
registering at the University and from obtaining your records through routine channels.

Both you and the reporting student are being notified of this outcome at the same time. Each party has the option to
request a formal hearing by the Student Sexual Misconduct Subcommittee (SSMS) if the outcome is unacceptable. If
I have not heard from either party within five business days (by December 20, 2016) of sending this letter, then the
decision will stand.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U%20of%20M%20EOAA%20redacted5.pdf
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They are all in class and not expelled. You are a fake news generator that needs to be expelled from this forum.
 


Spoofin said:
Blah blah blah. You are joining an elite club on my ignore list. Actually, you fit in well. Say hi to Mark for me at your next family dinner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Go ahead. You want to ignore me because I post actual facts that differ from your opinion.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Dude - he's not a minor in this context. This is not debatable.
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Under Minn Stat 617.246, a statute governing use of minors in pornography among other things, a minor is defined as someone under 18. It is inconsistent with the statutes governing the age of consent for purposes of determining whether criminal sexual conduct occurred. As a result, it is illegal to make and distribute a sex tape with a 17 year-old, even if the sex itself is not considered illegal.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Go ahead. You want to ignore me because I post actual facts that differ from your opinion.
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Facts like the kids are already expelled? I can do without those "facts".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Prove it then. That's straight from the EOAA report. What's fake about it?
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They haven't been expelled. That's what's fake about it. They might be expelled someday, they might not. Only time will tell. In your eagerness to have the expelling process complete already, you are making yourself out to be an idiot by arguing indefensible positions.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Prove it then. That's straight from the EOAA report. What's fake about it?
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Nothing fake about it. Now, you claim you're offering actual facts that differ from his opinion, but please, take a closer look at the facts you offered:

Subd. 19. Violation of University Rules. Violation of University rules means engaging in conduct that violates
University, collegiate, or deparimental regulations that have been posted or publicized, including provisions
contained in University contracts with students. Specifically you were found to have violated the following:
Administrative Policv· Sexual Harassment
Administrative Policy: Sexyal Assault Stalkin~ and Relationship Violence
Subd. 21. Persistent Violations. Persistent Violations means engaging in repeated conduct or action in violation of
this Code.

As a result of these violations, you are being offered the following sanctions to resolve this matter informally:
EXPULSION: Effective immediately your University of Minnesota studentship will be ended with resultant loss of
all student rights and privileges. A disciplinary hold will be placed on your record. The hold will prevent you from
registering at the University and from obtaining your records through routine channels.

Both you and the reporting student are being notified of this outcome at the same time. Each party has the option to
request a formal hearing by the Student Sexual Misconduct Subcommittee (SSMS) if the outcome is unacceptable. If
I have not heard from either party within five business days (by December 20, 2016) of sending this letter, then the
decision will stand.

So easy there Buck Rogers. You're "facts" don't support your argument. They have been threatened with Expulsion, but since they chose to appeal, the decision does not stand. The facts you provided, as written, say they will be expelled if they just take the punishment, which the players did not. Hence, they are all in school, taking classes and awaiting the outcome of the appeals process, so in FACT, they have not been expelled, only threatened with expulsion as of right now. It may be a formality given how this was all handled, but the players have not be Expelled. Yet. My apologies if this FACT doesn't mesh with your OPINION.
 




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