All Things Brad Davison Recruitment Thread

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underground629 said:
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This made me feel better
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Thought I remembered him being very interested in Creighton and Butler too. We were kind of the odd duck among those other schools. And of course the same people criticizing Pitino for not getting Macura would be ciriticizng him now for taking Macura after whatever incident he got into semi-recently.
 

3399 said:
The only "style" I have seen is how fast can we get the worst shot possible up, run back and play very little defense, then repeat. Davison is a darn good basketball player and by all reports a top notch kid. The reputation that this program has built under Pitino, good players with off the charts character should be the new style and the only style they consider. Time will tell that they blew it with this one. And to think the family has season tickets at Williams Arena.......
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Are you implying that Davison's parents having season tickets should have factored into Pitino's assessment of him as a player?
 

3399 said:
The only "style" I have seen is how fast can we get the worst shot possible up, run back and play very little defense, then repeat.
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Try watching a game.

We might miss a lot of shots, but one thing has been consistent (outside of final 2 minutes of many close games) we get pretty damn decent looks at the net, consistently.



We haven't lost Davison yet. edit: just saw he committed And the only way this is a "miss" is if Pitino doesn't get one of the 3 or 4 guards we are actively recruiting.

Coaches make choices about players all the time. it's not like there is a "rating" like in a video game that they can see a kids going to be xyz player. This is a judgement call, and none of us know how this will turn out yet.
 

Wright is also a highly skilled high character kid. Most would agree Wright fits the system better and has a higher ceiling. Why would he not be our priority? Davison is a nice player, but he was a late bloomer, and doesn't fit the system. A coach isn't going to try and build a roster for 2+ years based on a certain system and then change it all for one 3 star recruit
 


Winasota Gopher said:
Try watching a game.

We might miss a lot of shots, but one thing has been consistent (outside of final 2 minutes of many close games) we get pretty damn decent looks at the net, consistently.



We haven't lost Davison yet. edit: just saw he committed And the only way this is a "miss" is if Pitino doesn't get one of the 3 or 4 guards we are actively recruiting.

Coaches make choices about players all the time. it's not like there is a "rating" like in a video game that they can see a kids going to be xyz player. This is a judgement call, and none of us know how this will turn out yet.
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Pitino's choice was that he wanted Davison on the team.
 


DLguy said:
Wright is also a highly skilled high character kid. Most would agree Wright fits the system better and has a higher ceiling. Why would he not be our priority? Davison is a nice player, but he was a late bloomer, and doesn't fit the system. A coach isn't going to try and build a roster for 2+ years based on a certain system and then change it all for one 3 star recruit
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What system is that exactly? All this talk about Pitino's supposed "system" is ridiculous. Yea we play a faster pace than Wisconsin does, but doesn't everyone else in the league save for Northwestern? Do we actually press and play faster than our other conference rivals?
 

3399 said:
The only "style" I have seen is how fast can we get the worst shot possible up, run back and play very little defense, then repeat.

Davison is a darn good basketball player and by all reports a top notch kid. The reputation that this program has built under Pitino, good players with off the charts character should be the new style and the only style they consider. Time will tell that they blew it with this one. And to think the family has season tickets at Williams Arena.......
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I'm not sure I agree with this statement. I actually enjoy the up tempo offense and generally, most of our shots are pretty high quality. We just don't make them as consistently as we should. This style is so much easier on the eyes then what Tubby ran. Tubby won with his defense.

The part I agree with is that our TEAM defense definitely needs to improve and that comes with athletes, player development and not playing your walk on's!
 



As I have read about it the WI "system" is to value points per possession.
I do not follow stats at all but is their PPG lower than most teams in the BIG and where do the Gophers fit in PPG and PPP?
 

olddoc said:
As I have read about it the WI "system" is to value points per possession.
I do not follow stats at all but is their PPG lower than most teams in the BIG and where do the Gophers fit in PPG and PPP?
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The shorter shot clock has changed the game a bit, you have to up tempo it a bit, Wisconsin with Decker, Hayes, and Kaminsky were a different team than they had been, very athletic with lots of skills, not sure any of these recruits match those players, time will tell, Reuvers and Davison are decent recruits but I don't see them as being any better than Wright or Sims, if we strike out on our current recruits then it will hurt but not a big concern right now.
 

bc2211 said:
Just curious what the play was here. Was Pitino's offer a political move with the local system to admit he was wrong about an eval? I could see how this could impact future relationships, by way of preventing any burnt bridges. Seems like people took exception to the Macura recruitment. I don't know, I can't imagine pitino thought he had a legit shot at him despite Marcus's tweet suggesting otherwise. My guess is that he is dealing with the local egos.

Also, I wonder who was taking lead of his evaluation. Sure, it ultimately falls on Pitino, but there's more than one opinion at play. I'm not convinced the staff is particularly good at anything.




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Ben Johnson is in charge of the local talent. I think they like Davidson, someone closer to the program might know otherwise, I think they feel guys like Wright, Washington etc were better fits. Just like the staff prefers John and Sims to Reuvers. I think Reuvers and Davidson can have good careers in Madison and will get a couple good recruits and be just fine. I saw Champlin play Maple Grove, both Wright and Davidson had good games, Maple Grove won a game that could've gone either way, came away thinking wright was a little quicker and had a better shot, but Davidson was a little more grittier. Both saw the floor pretty well. I thought Nikko outplayed John and that was the difference. It sucks to lose a kid to Wisconsin, but with so many instate guys, we couldn't take all of them and Wisconsin was going to come in and be an option as well.
 

Guessing Reuvers will redshirt so he can add strength to his frame. Davison it'll be interesting because they redshirted Pritzel (sp) and he will still have three years of eligibility left when the Class of 17 steps on campus, plus they still have the PG who missed the dunk at Williams Arena, so I wonder if they'll try to redshirt Davison as well, but that would seem unusual to redshirt two scholarship players in basketball at once
 



bemidjigopher said:
Guessing Reuvers will redshirt so he can add strength to his frame. Davison it'll be interesting because they redshirted Pritzel (sp) and he will still have three years of eligibility left when the Class of 17 steps on campus, plus they still have the PG who missed the dunk at Williams Arena, so I wonder if they'll try to redshirt Davison as well, but that would seem unusual to redshirt two scholarship players in basketball at once
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Pritzl had some sort of injury before the season, so he might have been redshirted because of that. Perhaps one of the Badger fans who are undoubtedly reading this thread could clear that up.
 

They might redshirt 2-3 guys next year. They have a team basically full of seniors and a few sophomore contributors and follow it up with the next wave. I have been told by Becky friends that Illikainen could redshirt, one or both of their freshmen.
 

Cayman said:
Pritzl had some sort of injury before the season, so he might have been redshirted because of that. Perhaps one of the Badger fans who are undoubtedly reading this thread could clear that up.
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Yep. Pritzl played in a game or two but hurt his foot and sat out the rest of the year. It will almost assuredly count as a medical redshirt giving him four years of eligibility left. One other thing, the guy who missed the dunk at Williams last year is a wing, not a PG. The only PGs on the roster right now are Koenig and Jordan Hill, with D'Metrick Trice (MSU's Travis' little brother) a freshman entering this fall.

There will most likely be a redshirt or two this fall from a sophomore. Illikainen and Charlie Thomas are both good frontcourt prospects for a redshirt.
 

olddoc said:
As I have read about it the WI "system" is to value points per possession.
I do not follow stats at all but is their PPG lower than most teams in the BIG and where do the Gophers fit in PPG and PPP?
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Just answering the questions posed - using last year's stats, WI & MN were 11th and 12th in the B1G in PPG, respectively (Rutgers & PSU were lower). In offense PPP, WI was 9th (overall 98th in all of NCAA) and MN was 13th (overall 278th - only ahead of Rutgers). In defense PPP, WI was 1st (overall 10th) and MN was 13th (overall 173rd - again beating out Rutgers).

Just stating the obvious, but if you have more offensive PPP than defensive PPP in a game, you'll win - that's why it's important to look at both. WI had a +14 points per 100 possession margin (offense minus defense), and MN was -5.3.

In tempo (which measures possessions per game), MN was 3rd fastest behind Rutgers and Iowa, and WI was last (NW was slightly faster). By the way, the difference in the number of possessions per game between WI and MN was only 5, which is about an 8% difference.

In the previous year, WI had the highest offensive PPP in the country while still being one of the slowest tempo teams. Watching that team, most said they looked faster tempo than previous Badger teams (which wasn't really true), but they were just uber-efficient - part of that was due to low turnovers (both giving and receiving), therefore less possessions. The reason Rutgers was such a fast team is they turned it over at a very high rate, thus causing more possessions.
 

Radio Badger said:
Yep. Pritzl played in a game or two but hurt his foot and sat out the rest of the year. It will almost assuredly count as a medical redshirt giving him four years of eligibility left. One other thing, the guy who missed the dunk at Williams last year is a wing, not a PG. The only PGs on the roster right now are Koenig and Jordan Hill, with D'Metrick Trice (MSU's Travis' little brother) a freshman entering this fall.

There will most likely be a redshirt or two this fall from a sophomore. Illikainen and Charlie Thomas are both good frontcourt prospects for a redshirt.
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Would Ilk or Thomas go along with that. Tough to sell a kid on being a prominent part of the program going forward, if you redshirt them after they play as a freshman. I don't really remember Thomas, but Ilk got solid rotation minutes didn't he, unless that was just against the gophers. I feel like he would be in line to start as a Junior
 

bc2211 said:
Just curious what the play was here. Was Pitino's offer a political move with the local system to admit he was wrong about an eval? I could see how this could impact future relationships, by way of preventing any burnt bridges. Seems like people took exception to the Macura recruitment. I don't know, I can't imagine pitino thought he had a legit shot at him despite Marcus's tweet suggesting otherwise. My guess is that he is dealing with the local egos.

Also, I wonder who was taking lead of his evaluation. Sure, it ultimately falls on Pitino, but there's more than one opinion at play. I'm not convinced the staff is particularly good at anything.




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Unbelievable...staff just brought in a top 25 class for 2016 and don't get a kid who is probably a better fit elsewhere, all of a sudden they aren't "particularly good at anything".
 

mnhoopboy said:
Unbelievable...staff just brought in a top 25 class for 2016 and don't get a kid who is probably a better fit elsewhere, all of a sudden they aren't "particularly good at anything".
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I've mentioned in many past threads. Amir was a blessing that brought Curry in with. This is not a bad thing, but I don't expect it to be consistent. Coffey was just not elite enough to be taken by most bluebloods and he was a legacy with a dad that wanted him to stay around.

Now, maybe I'm wrong and we get the main 3 remaining MN guys, but I expect us to drop back down into the 40s for recruiting classes for a while...and that isn't a problem to me.

Just get solid recruiting classes and pick up a Coffey-type every few years. Similar to Coughlin in football...we get these studs who want to stay around every 3-4 years. I'm not expecting it to be a yearly event until the programs are elevated.
 

Biggsohnasty said:
Yeah I don't really buy into the "x player doesn't fit..." narrative. If a guy like Davison doesn't fit, the team is running the wrong system.

I mean I get that Davison isn't probably the type of guard you want if your goal is to recreate Louisville 2.0 in the north, but c'mon. I don't know if he was never coming here anyways, but it looks bad when you ignore a kid like that who clearly was a high-major D1 player.

I'm not like a lot of folks who think we need every local kid but when ones like Davison come around, don't ignore them. That just looks foolish.
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I'm certain he wasn't ignored. Just because a scholarship isn't offered, doesn't mean the staff isn't keeping tabs on the kid. You recruit for the system you want to employ. Period. The staff didn't see that Davison was fit so he wasn't offered earlier. All of sudden because the kid has a hot few months of summer ball and garners a few HM offers, the staff is supposed to stray from their philosophy? Wright and Washington are and should be the priorities given the limited scholarships available.
 

mnhoopboy said:
Unbelievable...staff just brought in a top 25 class for 2016 and don't get a kid who is probably a better fit elsewhere, all of a sudden they aren't "particularly good at anything".
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Take it easy big fella. I didn't say they were particularly bad either. I also don't think I expressed an opinion about not "landing" Davison anywhere. I was theorizing about why Pitino would offer just days before he committed to wisco after not communicating for so long.

edit: reread my post, and shouldn't have ended saying they weren't particularly good at anything since that wasn't my main point. However, one top 25 class anchored by a local kid and his friend doesn't show me that the staff is made up of great evaluators. That's not meant as a dig, as I hope the staff gets the chance to grow on the strong foundation they've gathered.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bemidjigopher said:
Would Ilk or Thomas go along with that. Tough to sell a kid on being a prominent part of the program going forward, if you redshirt them after they play as a freshman. I don't really remember Thomas, but Ilk got solid rotation minutes didn't he, unless that was just against the gophers. I feel like he would be in line to start as a Junior
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Good question. The first issue is that the entire starting 5 is back. Then there's Andy Van Vliet - a big from Belgium, who, not unlike many other internationals, had NCAA clearinghouse issues and was ruled ineligible last year. The word out of practices last year was that he was one of the better players on the team (this is the same sort of thing that was heard about Happ when he redshirted the year before). So, the amount of minutes available this year is likely to go down. Ilk and/or Thomas might have redshirted last year if Van Vliet had been eligible. If I had to guess, I'd think Thomas might not redshirt because he brings something different to the table than the other two - he's more of a banger, which can be helpful to have against some of the more physical teams. Both Ilk and Van Vliet are beanpoles and everyone expects Van Vliet to be in the rotation. Therefore, Ilk's minutes could be few (assuming no injuries).

That being said, it is a senior-laden 2016-17 team, and both Ilk & Thomas will be counted on for more in 2017-18 with Hayes and Brown departing. It's just a question of whether they have 2 or 3 years of eligibility left. Redshirting at Wisconsin is more common than most schools, but they usually leave the decision up to the player. There likely won't be a lot of minutes for them this year, so head should say redshirt, but heart would say play because this team should be pretty good.
 

RickDornsby said:
I've mentioned in many past threads. Amir was a blessing that brought Curry in with. This is not a bad thing, but I don't expect it to be consistent. Coffey was just not elite enough to be taken by most bluebloods and he was a legacy with a dad that wanted him to stay around.

Now, maybe I'm wrong and we get the main 3 remaining MN guys, but I expect us to drop back down into the 40s for recruiting classes for a while...and that isn't a problem to me.

Just get solid recruiting classes and pick up a Coffey-type every few years. Similar to Coughlin in football...we get these studs who want to stay around every 3-4 years. I'm not expecting it to be a yearly event until the programs are elevated.
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Ya if we can land two of Wright/Washington and Sims/John will be fine, be great if we could take three, but I don't think Pitino wants to get a Tom Crean like reputation where your name is a punch line for negative recruiting. Class of 18 is big two just as much talent in that class as the class of 17. Than Mattthew Hurt in 2019.
 

So how does it work? Pitino has offered several PGs. If he prefers Wright over Davidson, and Davidson is ready to get on with his life and commit somewhere and Wright isn't, what is a coach to do?

Certainly, in some cases the coach will take the first to commit and in others they're willing to hold out for the top choice; there are probably other possibilities in between. I don't know which was at play here, but I'm not sure we could've expected any other ending to Davidson's recruitment.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
What system is that exactly? All this talk about Pitino's supposed "system" is ridiculous. Yea we play a faster pace than Wisconsin does, but doesn't everyone else in the league save for Northwestern? Do we actually press and play faster than our other conference rivals?
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We scored .2pts per game more than Wisconsin did last year. While we gave up 10.2pts more a game. Not really sure about style either.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
What system is that exactly? All this talk about Pitino's supposed "system" is ridiculous. Yea we play a faster pace than Wisconsin does, but doesn't everyone else in the league save for Northwestern? Do we actually press and play faster than our other conference rivals?
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The Gophers were tied for 3rd in the conference in possessions per game last year which could indicate we do play at a faster pace. Or it could be just because we don't play very good defense. Or it could be both.
 

I hope Osseo has a great season this year and sweeps Maple Grove like they often do with less talent.
 

formerlybis said:
That being said, it is a senior-laden 2016-17 team, and both Ilk & Thomas will be counted on for more in 2017-18 with Hayes and Brown departing. It's just a question of whether they have 2 or 3 years of eligibility left. Redshirting at Wisconsin is more common than most schools, but they usually leave the decision up to the player. There likely won't be a lot of minutes for them this year, so head should say redshirt, but heart would say play because this team should be pretty good.
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Except it's not. The NBA already has a hard time with seniors but a redshirt senior? I suspect that many players who want a chance at the NBA are really against redshirting. That means that anyone in the top 150 would likely not enjoy red-shirting.

Too many posters here spend too much time on the football comment section or something as redshirting is not done very often in basketball.
 

Tim1406 said:
Except it's not. The NBA already has a hard time with seniors but a redshirt senior? I suspect that many players who want a chance at the NBA are really against redshirting. That means that anyone in the top 150 would likely not enjoy red-shirting.

Too many posters here spend too much time on the football comment section or something as redshirting is not done very often in basketball.
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I agree with your premise that many players would be against redshirting. However, Wisconsin routinely has redshirts for basketball - I know it's not the norm elsewhere, but it is there. The prime current example is Ethan Happ who redshirted in the 14-15 season when he would have been stuck behind Kaminsky, as well as Hayes and Dukan. It allowed him to practice against really good competition and put a year of work in the weight room. There have been many others in the past, going back to Brian Butch. Guys like Illikainen and Thomas are similar to Happ in that they're expected to be major contributors when it's "their turn", but there is a logjam of experienced players ahead of them and they have a long ways to go to be considered NBA-caliber. Only 60 guys get drafted each year - about a third are from overseas, and second rounders rarely pan out. The fringe 100-150 guys - which is who we're talking about here - aren't very likely to be leaving early. They have to develop. Whether a kid has the maturity to recognize that is a different question.

Some guys who see the writing on the wall in terms of low playing time choose to transfer, e.g., Riley Dearring and George Marshall (who did pretty well at So Dak St. getting them to the tourney). If Ilk and Thomas don't want to wait until it's their turn, they might transfer like Jarrod Uthoff did (who also redshirted at Wisconsin).
 

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