All Things Pitino rumor mill thread

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Maximus said:
Pitino inherited such an embarrassment of riches...the team with the greatest season in the last 23 years of Gopher basketball....minus Mbakwe, minus Williams, minus Coleman, minus Welch, minus Ingram, minus a recruiting class.
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dpodoll68 said:
So he took an already-depleted roster and has made it even worse. I'm glad we agree.
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Maximus, you forgot the sarcasm symbol. /s
 



bga1 said:
I remember going down to Williams Arena to see Pitino's presser and thinking- he sounds impressive, but look at the squad he's got coming back- the two Hollins, EE and big huge Mo was about it. Had he reversed the two seasons, we probably would feel better right now.
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Great comment. Somehow team managed to over achieve the first year and second year lay eggs in multiple games. I kow it comes down to W/L but how many games were they in but blew it because "the one player" didn't step up and score or they missed a boat load of free throws.
 

watertown 1987 guy n said:
Great comment. Somehow team managed to over achieve the first year and second year lay eggs in multiple games. I kow it comes down to W/L but how many games were they in but blew it because "the one player" didn't step up and score or they missed a boat load of free throws.
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I'm not one to get too encouraged by the notion that we could have won some more games if it weren't for all of the things we did that lost us those games.
 



I'm not really concerned about him leaving this off season. However, another Gaston admission situation and he may leave sooner than we thought.
 

Pitino's B1G record through two years (including BTT) is 16-24 (40%).

Kill's B1G record through 4 years is 13-19 (40.625%).

As you can see, Kill's record is vastly superior.
 

mnsportsgeek said:
I'm not really concerned about him leaving this off season. However, another Gaston admission situation and he may leave sooner than we thought.
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Gopher Warrior said:
Think this one through a bit more.
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Gopher Warrior said:
Always appeared unlikely to work out with Diedhiou (both respect to initially joining the program and also longer-term). Things could always change, but if he never joins the team I don't see it as a negative.
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Gopher Warrior said:
Sometimes the real story is fed in a certain way for effect.
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Gopher Warrior said:
Things are often not what they seem if you accept only what you're told.
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Gopher Warrior said:
Consider what may actually be at play here and different ways of handling it. See if you don't conclude this path may be the best available.
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.
 



howeda7 said:
Pitino's B1G record through two years (including BTT) is 16-24 (40%).

Kill's B1G record through 4 years is 13-19 (40.625%).

As you can see, Kill's record is vastly superior.
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You don't get to count Big Ten Tournament games in his record. His Big Ten record is 14-22 (.388). The Big Ten winning percentages of his predecessors are .426, .188 (interim), .393, .381, .182 (interim), and .444 going back the last 40 years. Meanwhile, the Big Ten winning percentages of Kill's predecessors are .400 (interim), .222, .400, .200, .396, .412, .278, and .482 over the last 40 years. In other words, Pitino has the worst Big Ten winning percentage of the last 40 years among non-interim coaches and Haskins - and Haskins had several of his best years wiped away by cheating. His record is also worse than his predecessor's, who was vilified by the fan base for achieving superior results. Meanwhile, Kill's conference record is demonstrably better than his predecessor's, and bettered in the last 40 years only by Holtz (a HOFer) and Stoll. When you look at things in a vacuum, they look pretty similar. When you take context and trajectory into account, they are very different.
 

wasn't kill 4-12 in his first two years in big ten play? .25

comparing two years to four years seems arbitrary to me
 


GopherOhana said:
wasn't kill 4-12 in his first two years in big ten play? .25

comparing two years to four years seems arbitrary to me
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Some posters are never going to like the Pitino hire. Even if in 6 years he achieves the "superior results" of his predecessor he will be deemed a failure by those that want to celebrate the previous regime.
 




dpodoll68 said:
Yes.



Why does it have to be either/or? How about option C - recruiting players who are better than Coleman, Mathieu, and King? By the start of next season, he will have turned over 12 of the 13 scholarships available to him, and thus far those 12 scholarships have turned into 1 player with all-conference potential. That's embarrassing. Pitino and Collins took over at about the same time - Collins at a worse program with far more stringent academic requirements. Whose roster would you rather have right now? And recruiting is allegedly Pitino's best asset.

Be a little realistic for Pete's sake. We hired him from FIU. Did you expect he had a trail 4 stars he had been tracking at FIU that would just follow him here that Spring when he got Matheui and King? I believe he had a nice PF coming here in Buckles (10 rebound guy) if the NCAA would have cleared his transfer. I just don't know how he could have done better that Spring.

The next recruiting class looked fine - Mason, Martin and Konate were all considered good gets - Lofton and Gaston were risk/reward plays for sure. Again he lost battles for Reid Travis and perhaps Rashad Vaughn. I don't fault him for the effort but perhaps he should have shot lower than some of the studs he went after and could not get. I think when all is said and done- people will look back and find that we got three good 4 year players out of that class.

But hey, predicting gloom and doom for the Gopher basketball program is always a good bet for a know it all like you. If it works out well you can say that you are happy for the Gophers. But if it works out badly you will really love it because your favorite person will have been right all along.



TBD, but I'm not optimistic.



Yes - thank you for the compliment! I am pretty awesome.
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I get it. You reserve the right to declare yourself correct later, regardless of the results.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You don't get to count Big Ten Tournament games in his record. His Big Ten record is 14-22 (.388). The Big Ten winning percentages of his predecessors are .426, .188 (interim), .393, .381, .182 (interim), and .444 going back the last 40 years. Meanwhile, the Big Ten winning percentages of Kill's predecessors are .400 (interim), .222, .400, .200, .396, .412, .278, and .482 over the last 40 years. In other words, Pitino has the worst Big Ten winning percentage of the last 40 years among non-interim coaches and Haskins - and Haskins had several of his best years wiped away by cheating. His record is also worse than his predecessor's, who was vilified by the fan base for achieving superior results. Meanwhile, Kill's conference record is demonstrably better than his predecessor's, and bettered in the last 40 years only by Holtz (a HOFer) and Stoll. When you look at things in a vacuum, they look pretty similar. When you take context and trajectory into account, they are very different.
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The only fair comparison is first two years versus first two years:

Conference play
Haskins 6-30 (.167)
Monson 9-23 (.28)
Tubby 17-19 (.47)
Pitino 14-22 (.39)

Recruits:
Haskins Year 1 - Connel Lewis, Coffey, Terrance Williams Year 2: Erik Wilson, Marlon Maxey, K Lynch, Walter Bond
Monson Year 1- Ryan Wildenborg, Year 2 Tavaris Bennert (juco), Kerwin Flemming (juco)
Tubby Year 1- none Year 2- Iverson, sampson, Bostick, Carter, Joseph
Pitino - Year 1: Matheui/King, McNeil...Year 2: Mason, Konate, Gaston, Lofton, Martin

Nobody killed it in recruiting the first two years. Haskins got three Dutcher signees who came in as frosh in Newbern,Burton and Schik. Monson got Priz. from Clem. Tubby received Nolan and Hoff from Monson, while Pitino got handed the big nothing coming in.
 

HOOP DREAMS said:
Ahhh... yes you can. It's his record vs. Big Ten opponents
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It's my fault. I should have asked his permission before posting facts.

FWIW, I would have included Kill's victory over OSU in the B1G championship game if it happened. :cool:
 

Tubby's kids do not fit Pitino's style. The only left over that did was Buggs. Mason and Konate are the real deal. In fact I do think that Konate has the potential to a 2nd Team all B10 player by his Junior/Senior season. He is a big, physical dude that runs well, is learning to rebound and play defense. That I expect next year to be there. Then his offensive game can take off. Gaston joined the team in January- he wasn't allowed to practice or even meet with the team. So who knows what an off-season will mean for that man! This year was a mess....there is no denying that. I also think chemistry this year was an issue. But I do see this team winning 5-7 B10 games next year and then competing for a tournament spot the following year. I think the biggest leap comes in 16-17. I think that team has the potential to be really good!

This is what this board is for I guess. We all have our opinions. Some say he'll be fired by 16-17 because in 4 years he didn't make the tourney. Maybe, maybe not. I say NOT.
 

Hammer em' said:
Some say he'll be fired by 16-17 because in 4 years he didn't make the tourney. Maybe, maybe not. I say NOT.
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if you read some of the coaching rumors out there now, 4 years is a repeated theme. though it's either flat or down trending trajectories. I don't think that assessment for RP will come until at the end of year 5. I say he makes it, at least longer than Enfield
 

sonnygarcia said:
Ah, you're one of those guys that thinks Pitino is not full of sh!t when he's fawning over everything MN. I may not be the "brightest bulb" as you put it, but at least I'm not naive.

I love the Gophs, but I don't see everything rosy all the time; I need to remember this doesn't sit well with the majority of gopher holers who are typically insecure and butt hurt over anything perceived as negative about the Gophs.

Go get some more curls in....
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Unless you can share some actual proof, then his point was valid. You very well may end up being correct, but stop acting like your opinion is fact. It's one thing to say you don't like him or whatever, but when you act like everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is an idiot or naive, you're going to get these type of reactions.

I think Pitino can be successful, but I'm not going to say he will be for sure because in the end I'm not close to the program and can't predict the future.
 

HAS to be allowed to have his own guys as upperclassmen. That means at least 4 years. by then you will have a idea on not only development but recruiting as well. Recruiting takes time. I have been a scout for 40 years and each young coach had to find his way. Be patient. Instead of thinking he would be able to walk in a room and make a bigger impression then 6-7 coaches just in the Big ten is not realistic. The competition for those recruits in that 50-100 range is ferocious. The Minnesota job is very tough. It is not a college town. It is not a private school in a hot recruiting climate. It will take time. Hitting a grand slam in a coaching hire is very difficult. Seems like it works best when the AD is good at it and you find that guy who thinks this is his dream job. FYI, i like Mason a great deal. UVA wanted him and that is a good thing because that is the kind of targeting you need. Beat Izzo, Ryan and Bennett out for some kids and then be able to develop as well as they do. Not crazy about any of the other recruits but keep in mind that the first 2 years are tough. Finding kids that you can lose with like this year can be the foundation of toughness that eventually pays off. He is not going anywhere. not a single power conference school has him on their short list. let him prove himself. One idea i really believe in when your down is scheduling way up ! It really helps your program even if you suffer in the short term. By up i do not mean St. Johns, Georgia. I mean Iowa St., At Kansas. you may have to give up a home game or two and that is why you need full support all in including facilities and travel
 

Things Difficult to plan for

Everybody, including Reid Travis, thought he was a Gopher until mom flipped him at the 11th hour. We have a very different team, season and outlook if he is a Gopher as anticipated.
Mathieu was a great surprise last year and unfortunately just as surprising this year in reverse.
The list of things that have gone wrong is definitely lengthy. Not many things have gone as anticipated by Pitino. I believe the worm turns, things balance out and all the naysayers will say they knew he could coach all along.
 

60's Guy said:
Everybody, including Reid Travis, thought he was a Gopher until mom flipped him at the 11th hour. We have a very different team, season and outlook if he is a Gopher as anticipated.
Mathieu was a great surprise last year and unfortunately just as surprising this year in reverse.
The list of things that have gone wrong is definitely lengthy. Not many things have gone as anticipated by Pitino. I believe the worm turns, things balance out and all the naysayers will say they knew he could coach all along.
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Agreed. Plus the loss of McNeil hurt depth and defense. Hold on boys and girls.
 

bga1 said:
Be a little realistic for Pete's sake. We hired him from FIU. Did you expect he had a trail 4 stars he had been tracking at FIU that would just follow him here that Spring when he got Matheui and King? I believe he had a nice PF coming here in Buckles (10 rebound guy) if the NCAA would have cleared his transfer. I just don't know how he could have done better that Spring.
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You didn't answer the question. Whose roster would you rather have right now - Northwestern's or ours? Collins and Pitino were hired within days of each other - and Collins didn't have any recruits to bring along with him.

bga1 said:
The next recruiting class looked fine - Mason, Martin and Konate were all considered good gets - Lofton and Gaston were risk/reward plays for sure. Again he lost battles for Reid Travis and perhaps Rashad Vaughn. I don't fault him for the effort but perhaps he should have shot lower than some of the studs he went after and could not get. I think when all is said and done- people will look back and find that we got three good 4 year players out of that class.
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I was saying that the entire time. His hubris wouldn't allow him to believe that you can't just walk in the door at Minnesota and start signing 5-stars. The unfortunate side effect is that we had to settle for lesser players than we could have gotten had he aimed for realistic recruiting targets from the start. Some of my favorite threads from those days were the ones wondering how we were going to find playing time for everybody with Whitehead, Vaughn, Newton, Travis, and Nairn all on the roster at the same time. Those were the best.

bga1 said:
But hey, predicting gloom and doom for the Gopher basketball program is always a good bet for a know it all like you.
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Because our opinions differ on things, I'm a "know it all". It's a good thing that you're above petty things like ad hominem and making up the lie that I sit and correct people's grammar all day, bga.

bga1 said:
If it works out well you can say that you are happy for the Gophers. But if it works out badly you will really love it because your favorite person will have been right all along.
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That's stupid. I don't want it to work out badly. I'm as big of a Gopher fan as anyone, and I want the Gophers to succeed. It would even be better for my professional career if the Gophers are good in athletics. I just don't see it with this coach.
 

howeda7 said:
It's my fault. I should have asked his permission before posting facts.
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Except those aren't facts. Big Ten tournament games count toward a coach's overall record, but not their Big Ten record. Pitino's Big Ten record is 14-22, for a winning percentage of .389. Period. Feel free to fabricate your own statistics, but don't expect people who know better to take them seriously and certainly don't call them "facts".
 

dpodoll68 said:
You didn't answer the question. Whose roster would you rather have right now - Northwestern's or ours?
By the start of next year? Ours. I like who we are bringing in, I like some of the guys returning and I like Pitino's chances of bringing in more guys that can help.

Collins and Pitino were hired within days of each other - and Collins didn't have any recruits to bring along with him.



I was saying that the entire time. His hubris wouldn't allow him to believe that you can't just walk in the door at Minnesota and start signing 5-stars. The unfortunate side effect is that we had to settle for lesser players than we could have gotten had he aimed for realistic recruiting targets from the start. Some of my favorite threads from those days were the ones wondering how we were going to find playing time for everybody with Whitehead, Vaughn, Newton, Travis, and Nairn all on the roster at the same time. Those were the best.



Because our opinions differ on things, I'm a "know it all". It's a good thing that you're above petty things like ad hominem and making up the lie that I sit and correct people's grammar all day, bga.



That's stupid. I don't want it to work out badly. I'm as big of a Gopher fan as anyone, and I want the Gophers to succeed. It would even be better for my professional career if the Gophers are good in athletics. I just don't see it with this coach.
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Enjoy the ride.
 

He's got a point, we really should be aiming for more Alex Fosters.
 

bga1 said:
The only fair comparison is first two years versus first two years:

Conference play
Haskins 6-30 (.167)
Monson 9-23 (.28)
Tubby 17-19 (.47)
Pitino 14-22 (.39)

Recruits:
Haskins Year 1 - Connel Lewis, Coffey, Terrance Williams Year 2: Erik Wilson, Marlon Maxey, K Lynch, Walter Bond
Monson Year 1- Ryan Wildenborg, Year 2 Tavaris Bennert (juco), Kerwin Flemming (juco)
Tubby Year 1- none Year 2- Iverson, sampson, Bostick, Carter, Joseph
Pitino - Year 1: Matheui/King, McNeil...Year 2: Mason, Konate, Gaston, Lofton, Martin

Nobody killed it in recruiting the first two years.
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Great post for perspective; Haskins eventually had the most success albeit clouded, but it took time to improve. Team over-achieved last year, under achieved to "some" degree this year. Flip those years and everyone is celebrating. The W/L is disapointing but consider the number of close losses this year its still wide open what the success will be over the next 3 years.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Except those aren't facts. Big Ten tournament games count toward a coach's overall record, but not their Big Ten record. Pitino's Big Ten record is 14-22, for a winning percentage of .389. Period. Feel free to fabricate your own statistics, but don't expect people who know better to take them seriously and certainly don't call them "facts".
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It's his record against B1G competition. That's a fact. If they didn't have a B1G tournament, they'd likely play 2 more games. What's the difference? If you feel those 4 games are somehow less valid, you're entitled to your opinion. Either way, 40.65% versus 39% does not change the math much. Take the stick out once in a while.
 


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