Will the Memphis Recruits Bolt?

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The Truth said:
I can tell you this:

We already had a really, really good class coming in with Orton, Hood and G.J. We're not buying Calipari for his class. We want Calipari because we want a coach who will embrace what makes UK special. We want a coach who is just has hungry as us for another national title. We want a coach who will restore some of the luster on the UK name.

I'll be happy with John Wall and who we had coming and look forward to a very, very bright future. I'm not going to blame the kids who signed to Memphis for Coach Cal and want to follow him.

This was not a chip held out by Cal to get more money. Mitch Barnhart is an honorable man and so is Dr. Tood. If it was about the money he would have stayed in Memphis. Memphis matched our offer and was willing to go to 6 mil per. Arizona offered him a blank check. This was about Calipari wanting to be mentioned with the Roy Williams, the K's, the Rick Pitino's. To put his stamp on a storied program in a way you can't do at a Memphis.

I'm involved with AAU basketball and coaches often use kids as bargaining chips to land college jobs. I know the difference.
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I know you did - I read CatsPause for entertainment purposes so I kind of know a little about Kentucky.

It just looks bad right now especially if some of the already committed kids to UK get told they are no longer welcome. I could be completely off base here and I fully admit it but look at what is happening to poor Memphis - that school was just decimated in a matter of hours. It is just icky to me.
 

That kind of stuff always happens. It is a fact of life in the college game. Does part of me feel for Memphis? Yes but it also speaks to the job Calipari did for that school.

Tubby had transfers at Kentucky when he came in because they wanted to play for Pitino (Mike Bradley's dad was uberpissed. Pitino gave him his word that he'd be the coach at UK when his son signed. Mike cried the day he left UK) and this kind of stuff happens all over college basketball. Mike Williams transfered because BCG told him he wouldn't play. He's at Duquense now. We lost Draymond Green, Kenny Frease and Jai Lucas when Tubby left.

Doug Gottlieb, on ESPN today, said what you do about the scholarship situation at Kentucky in regards to all this. His response "You run 'em off" He wasn't really kidding. Pitino's waiver wire at UK is a stuff of legend. So was Rupp's.
 

The Truth said:
That kind of stuff always happens. It is a fact of life in the college game. Does part of me feel for Memphis? Yes but it also speaks to the job Calipari did for that school.

Tubby had transfers at Kentucky when he came in because they wanted to play for Pitino (Mike Bradley's dad was uberpissed. Pitino gave him his word that he'd be the coach at UK when his son signed. Mike cried the day he left UK) and this kind of stuff happens all over college basketball. Mike Williams transfered because BCG told him he wouldn't play. He's at Duquense now. We lost Draymond Green, Kenny Frease and Jai Lucas when Tubby left.

Doug Gottlieb, on ESPN today, said what you do about the scholarship situation at Kentucky in regards to all this. His response "You run 'em off" He wasn't really kidding. Pitino's waiver wire at UK is a stuff of legend. So was Rupp's.
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Of course it does - doesn't make it any less icky though.

I wouldn't be surprised if you guys are preseason #1 next year. I mean some people from the media are positively panting at this news. Another reason why it's icky - reminds me of the love affair with the Yankees. Ewwwww.

But from one college basketball fan to another - congrats. I was so happy when we got Tubby I'm sure you are just as thrilled with Coach Cal.
 

Part of me still misses Tubby. You guy's got a great one and it's nice to see the fire back in him. I really, really hope (and I'm being 100% sincere) that he takes Minnesota to the very top of CBB.
I'll be cheering you on when that day comes...well, unless you're playing us for the title.
 

Well it sure must great to buy the "luster" back on the program.
I can see now why Tubby's pretty happy here. He could step into a good situation with a good local class (White and Williams) coming up that he'd have an excellent shot at signing, without having to scavenge other programs to assure his success.
I'm beginning to realize that I'm glad we're part of a major sports market and we don't have to worry about being special. As a parent of young college age men, I'm glad our program doesn't leave a sour taste in my mouth. I'd like to still enjoy going to the games.
 


Moonlight said:
Well it sure must great to buy the "luster" back on the program.
I can see now why Tubby's pretty happy here. He could step into a good situation with a good local class (White and Williams) coming up that he'd have an excellent shot at signing, without having to scavenge other programs to assure his success.
I'm beginning to realize that I'm glad we're part of a major sports market and we don't have to worry about being special. As a parent of young college age men, I'm glad our program doesn't leave a sour taste in my mouth. I'd like to still enjoy going to the games.
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Did you bring your fishing pole or just the bait?
 

I don't understand all the outrage. When a kid is being recruited, he chooses a school 99% of the time because of the coach and his staff, not because of the University. Does anyone think Cousins or Henry committed to Memphis because of their educational opportunities? No. The kid's want to play for Calipari.

I understand why people would feel bad if Cal ultimately ran BCG's recruiting class out of town, but that's how it works. Look at the UK kid, Ferguson.. BCG leaves, and Ferguson is planning to reopen his recruiting. Players go to schools for the coaches, not the school.

Cal put a lot of time into recruiting Wall, Cousins and Henry. Sure, he was the one who chose to leave the school, but if the kids he recruited WANT to go with him to Kentucky, and Cal can find a way to get them under scholarship at UK, then so be it. Henry was smart enough to get it written in his LOI if Cal left he would be let out of it. Cousins only made a verbal, and Wall is still out there.

If you guys have an issue with anything, it's the college game in general. You can't fault Kentucky for hiring one of the top 3 coaches in the country. You can't fault Cal for wanting his recruits, and you can't fault the recruits for wanting to follow Cal to UK. Squeezing out a less talented kid may SEEM wrong, but guess what.. things like that happen in the real world every day. If a company can replace one employee with a new one who's twice as effective for the same cost, they do it. These kids are getting life lessons earlier than most, but it won't hurt them in the future.
 


Moonlight said:
Hey - great comment. Well thought out and clearly expressed.
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And yours was nothing more than a baiting attempt to get a response out of me. Won't work. If you care to discuss the issues at hand I think we have a pretty good intelligent (and civil! Gosh imagine that) debate going on regarding some issues that are greater than just the hiring of a new coach at UK. Feel free to join at any time Moonlight but leave your belly button diamond and wild pink hair at home.
 



Don't flatter yourself. I've been posting here a long time and I'm posting on a topic here as I always have. This is my opinion. If you feel baited, I can't help it you're sensitive.
 

the thing that gets me and was posted earlier in this thread is that kentucky basically bought its team...i know there is nothing you can do but for me at least if kentucky wins it is tainted...they got a coach who brought inall star team with him...if the players all split up and go somewhere else this is completely different, and i think this situation is different then others
 

GopherGod said:
If Robert Sallie does transfer from Memphis to UK and is granted admittance it will show just how low UK is willing to go in regards to admission standards to accept a player. Robert Sallie tried to and wanted to go to Nebraska this past fall but Nebraska denied him admission so he ended up at Memphis.
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Sallie's situation at Nebraska had nothing to do with Nebraska not letting him in due to grades. It was a very complex situation and ended up being a Big 12 rule that caused the issue. Nebraska actually admitted Sallie before the situation was resolved and this is what caused his admission problems. He now can't play for any one in the Big 12.
 




Did anyone see Vitale's opinion on Espn.com on the issue of recruits following a coach? (If its already been mentioned, then I apologize for the repeat) It was pretty interesting, he said that he thought the kids recruits who signed on with Calipari to go to Memphis, should absolutely be released from their commitments, which they obviously will, but he also said they should be able to transfer to any school, OTHER than the one the coach is moving to, so in this case, these kids wouldnt be able to go to Kentucky.

I am not sure if I necessarily agree or disagree with this, but I thought it was an interesting take.
 

My problem with Vitale's idea is that it screws the recruits. They found a coach they like and then when the coach changes jobs he is now not able to play for the coach he wants to play for.
 

Yeah, I guess I agree with you. The kids shouldnt be penalized, but for some reason in this case it just seems shiesty. Oh well, itll be interesting to see what happens.
 

UptownMaroon&Gold said:
Did anyone see Vitale's opinion on Espn.com on the issue of recruits following a coach? (If its already been mentioned, then I apologize for the repeat) It was pretty interesting, he said that he thought the kids recruits who signed on with Calipari to go to Memphis, should absolutely be released from their commitments, which they obviously will, but he also said they should be able to transfer to any school, OTHER than the one the coach is moving to, so in this case, these kids wouldnt be able to go to Kentucky.

I am not sure if I necessarily agree or disagree with this, but I thought it was an interesting take.
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This happens all the time in College Football when a coach leaves. Wouldn't surprise me if it happens in CBB as well.
 

UptownMaroon&Gold said:
Did anyone see Vitale's opinion on Espn.com on the issue of recruits following a coach? (If its already been mentioned, then I apologize for the repeat) It was pretty interesting, he said that he thought the kids recruits who signed on with Calipari to go to Memphis, should absolutely be released from their commitments, which they obviously will, but he also said they should be able to transfer to any school, OTHER than the one the coach is moving to, so in this case, these kids wouldnt be able to go to Kentucky.

I am not sure if I necessarily agree or disagree with this, but I thought it was an interesting take.
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I think for once, Vitale makes some sense here. This would take a little bit of the power away form these "Svengali" type coaches like Calipari and Pitino. The athletes should pick a coach they like- certainly. But they should also be settling on a college they like. It's not good if they are purely signing for the coach- and I say that with full recogintion that our Gophers are currently benefitting with Tubby from some of the same effect. Allowing them to sign anywhere but with the coach gives the player a lot of flexibility but also protects the school from a mass exodus if they are outbid for a coach. I fthe player made the choice intially for the right reasons then staying at the school is probably a viable option as well.
 

it just comes off to me that the wealthy teams could shop around find a good coach who has a good recruiting class coming in and basically shop for wins. I know this is extreme example, but i dont think it is a good thing for college basketball when players are just going somewhere for the coach not the school
 

gopheraschells said:
it just comes off to me that the wealthy teams could shop around find a good coach who has a good recruiting class coming in and basically shop for wins. I know this is extreme example, but i dont think it is a good thing for college basketball when players are just going somewhere for the coach not the school
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There's maybe 4 or 5 coaches in America that have the ability to recruit the top talent consistently. Roy Williams, Coach K, Calipari, and Self. I could be forgetting one or two (No I don't think Pitino has proven he can recruit the top talent year in/year out.)

While I understand where you're coming from, it's really not an issue because none of these coaches are going to get up and leave the teams they're at now. Cal was the only one who wasn't at a tradition rich school, and now that he's at UK there isn't much left.

Tubby has a top 10 class, but if he left, I feel pretty confident Rodney and Royce would stay. They're hometown kids, and while they are great recruits, Tubby wasn't the ONLY reason they chose to come here.

Calipari also will luck out that two of his top targets have yet to sign a LOI, and his other top recruit is allowed out of his LOI when Cal leaves thanks to a clause he was smart enough to get in there. So if his 3 top recruit targets are still undecided (which they are) Calipari has every right to go after them. This really isn't a big deal, I think people are letting their hatred for UK (because most of them hated Tubby, and there board was ripping our Gophers most of the year) cloud their judgment. Personally, I want to see Wall, Henry, Meeks, Cousins and Patterson in that starting lineup.
 

Talked to my friend who lives in Memphis - they are PISSED that within 48 hours their entire team has been destroyed. They aren't so mad at Calipari for leaving - they are mad that they barely have a team left. The next coach is going to have to do some fast recruiting.
 

Plinnius said:
No, Cal outsources that to street agents.
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I'll play:

I disagree with the term "street agent" but what is the difference between that and Jordan using his influence to steer kids to Carolina?

When Rex Chapman was being recruited by just about everybody in the country, Jordan called him up and gave him a sell on UNC. To this day Carolina's alumni are actively involved in the recruiting process. It's funny how many guys like Jordan, Vince Carter, etc are on campus when an official takes place and happen to "bump" into a recruit and tell them how great Carolina is.

All coaches use the AAU system to their benefit and by proxy the shoe companies. Sonny Vaccaro has steered more kids than a school bus driver to various programs over his career. If the NCAA was serious they'd stop accepting the tens of millions of dollars member schools (and the organization itself) receive in sponsorship dollars. In the end, no matter how many high minded ideals we have, it's all about the money. The only way to change the game is to limit the influence of money. When conferences are landing billion dollar T.V. contracts and media deals it's never going to end.
 

and the schools that are far and away the worst are teams like kentucky, sorry but the way i see it schools like kentucky start this and force others to follow..and to tubbytime i know it is unlikely to happen now, but what if another guy like Cal raises a program again and a Big budget school buys him and his recruits basically...i am just saying, i dont know... i just dont like where this leads college basketball
 

gopheraschells said:
and the schools that are far and away the worst are teams like kentucky, sorry but the way i see it schools like kentucky start this and force others to follow..and to tubbytime i know it is unlikely to happen now, but what if another guy like Cal raises a program again and a Big budget school buys him and his recruits basically...i am just saying, i dont know... i just dont like where this leads college basketball
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Nick Williams had a signed LOI to Marquette. Where did he end up after Tom Crean left? I hate to tell you but this happens all the time at this level. Do you honestly think K-State really wanted to hire Frank Martin? No but he said he'd keep Walker and Beasley. Assistant coaching jobs all across college basketball are given out because a player can be delivered to that program.

I think kids should be allowed to be released from their LOI's in the event of a coaching change. The coaches are just as much a part of the decision making process as the school these days and maybe even moreso. I don't think kids should be let out of their commitments to a school because they have a "change of heart".

What I propose is to do away with the early signing period all together. It's led to more trouble than it's worth. The reasons for its original inception have been lost ( i.e. let kids sign so they can go on with their high school seasons without any drama or pressure of the decision process) in the intense recruiting wars.
 

your probably right about the early signing, and i know it happens at a lot of schools, but i still think that players should not be able to follow coaches like this. There are plenty of other coaches, and i think the NCAA is guiding these guides in the wrong direction
 

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