Will "Back Against the Wall" Pitino, pull a Rabbit out of his hat?

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Love the optimism in this thread. Nothing will change. Expect to finish between 8th and 12th.
 

leib0039 said:
DJ Carton just got a waiver, at this point they just need to give everyone a waiver. If Carton gets one there is 0 reason to deny Gach and Robbins. Now that said, its the NCAA so there is no rhyme or reason to anything they do
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Bettendorf is 3 hrs 45 minutes from Milwaukee. It's 7 1/2 hours from Columbus. Moving half way closer to home with mental health issues seems like enough reason for a waiver to me, not a stretch by any means.
Still, I'm confident both our guys will get one (neither has the family hardship angle that Carton has, but Robbins has family and Goch got WAY closer to home).
 


bfriedrichs10 said:
Bettendorf is 3 hrs 45 minutes from Milwaukee. It's 7 1/2 hours from Columbus. Moving half way closer to home with mental health issues seems like enough reason for a waiver to me, not a stretch by any means.
Still, I'm confident both our guys will get one (neither has the family hardship angle that Carton has, but Robbins has family and Goch got WAY closer to home).
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Gach has the family hardship angle too
 



Well, the trouble is that no one knows exactly what the NCAA waiver criteria really is anymore. Hence the running joke to spin the "Wheel of Random Decision Making".......
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Love the optimism in this thread. Nothing will change. Expect to finish between 8th and 12th.
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I simply as a fan can not go into a season expecting to be
restovich said:
Well, the trouble is that no one knows exactly what the NCAA waiver criteria really is anymore. Hence the running joke to spin the "Wheel of Random Decision Making".......
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Actually , if you go the website it is spelled out. The grey area of waivers is what they want to eliminate.
 

Some guy said:
Last year the difference between 5th and 12th was 3 games. Hopefully we win those three next year instead of lose them
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That's so true! And it's what made last season so excruciating and unpleasant. That team was good enough to have finished in the top half-dozen and easily qualified for the NCAAs. But, as we've discussed many times here, you are your record.
 



GopherBlood666 said:
He could get a 100 yr extension and the same olds would still continually bring it up every time we lost a game. Just how it is.
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If they didn't lose 16 times, there would be a lot less opportunity to 'continually bring it up' and it wouldn't seem like a big deal. Funny how that works.
 

If - and I repeat If - Pitino is embracing the transfer route, it's going to make things even more of a high-wire act.

Transfers certainly represent an opportunity to bring experienced talent into the program, and fill gaps in the high school recruiting process.

But, it also means that you're operating on a year-to-year basis, because the roster is undergoing almost constant turnover.

In a perfect world, I would rather see the team based on recruiting HS players who are going to stick around for 3 or 4 years.

But, I'm afraid that what we're looking at is more like this year- biting your nails and waiting out the spring transfer window to see if they can land an impact player who can step right in and play. Or whether the success of the team is dependent on the NCAA granting a waiver - the last thing in the world you want to count on.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
If - and I repeat If - Pitino is embracing the transfer route, it's going to make things even more of a high-wire act.

Transfers certainly represent an opportunity to bring experienced talent into the program, and fill gaps in the high school recruiting process.

But, it also means that you're operating on a year-to-year basis, because the roster is undergoing almost constant turnover.

In a perfect world, I would rather see the team based on recruiting HS players who are going to stick around for 3 or 4 years.

But, I'm afraid that what we're looking at is more like this year- biting your nails and waiting out the spring transfer window to see if they can land an impact player who can step right in and play. Or whether the success of the team is dependent on the NCAA granting a waiver - the last thing in the world you want to count on.
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The way I look at it, you can recruit HS players to replace the graduating seniors and transfers to replace transfers.

We had two graduate plus one open schollie so those 3 went to 3 freshman. Those are openings you can plan for in advance

We had two transfers and one declared for the NBA so we filled those with transfers who match the eligibility of the guys transferring out
 



For all you "The Sky is Falling" or "Pitino Needs to Go" posters who are predicting certain doom, I would like to point out just a few things.

1. Marcus Carr - This young man is quite possibly the best PG we have had since 1997? His assist to turnover ratio is tremendous and he doesn't have penchant for choking in the tight spots. He does what he needs to and gets the ball to his teammates who are best suited to score.

2. Gabe Kalesheur - A three year starter from the home state who endured a bad shooting year. He still played solid defense and I believe will benefit from not having to be the primary (or only) outside shooting threat. Look for this young man to come back and contribute more effectively and make people pay when he's open!

3. Both Gach - Although his name sounds like two people vomiting in the tunnel, this young man from Austin will give us an idea of what we all thought we were going to see last year with Coffey playing the wing next to Carr and Gabe. A better shooter than Coffey, he should show us what was missing last year from what we all thought was going to be a near dream lineup. SO WHY ISN'T IT A DREAM LINEUP NOW??? I can't for the life of me tell you why it shouldn't be.

4. Johnson - A Rebounding force who knows how to score when plays aren't called for him. Sounds like a perfect blend to go with the three individuals listed prior to him. This guy sounds like a ball player who does what is needed and makes plays that are necessary to win. A little John Thomas or Old Man Coffey could never hurt a team and would be welcome any time!

5. Robbins - Defensive presence in the middle. Let me remind you of what the last defensive center did for the Gophers in his first year, Reggie Lynch led the league in blocks and helped raise the Gopher defense from the pits of ineptitude to what fourth place in the league! His absence the next year caused them to completely crater. Robbins could have a similar impact with his defensive presence. It's not that hard to project.

6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Ihnen, Mashburn, Williams, Curry, Mitchell - These guys are not your average Gopher bench fodder. Last year, Ihnen and Williams probably should have been starting and I'm not sure they won't push the starters for time as it is now! No way Ihnen and Williams should see less than 10-15 minutes per game! Mashburn, half of you guys were projecting as a starter! Hopefully you were right and he gets his time. Mitchell is a skilled 4 star recruit and I have him buried 9 deep on a Gopher depth chart and you guys are predicting a 12th place finish? Let me repeat that so it sinks in.
Our Gophers, have a four star recruit buried behind nine other guys on the depth chart and you are predicting we finish 12th in the league?

Well, I'm fresh out of points, but I think I've made mine.

There are more reasons for optimism for the upcoming season than there has been for a long, long time. No matter who is making the x's and o's.

Go Gophers!
 

Bad Gopher said:
That's so true! And it's what made last season so excruciating and unpleasant. That team was good enough to have finished in the top half-dozen and easily qualified for the NCAAs. But, as we've discussed many times here, you are your record.
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There are elite teams in college sports both football and basketball.

usually 2-5 in football
Usually 3-10 in basketball.

there isn’t much that separates 6 from 40 in football.
there isn’t much that separates 11-50 in basketball,

it’s 6-10 opportunities taken advantage of or missed in both cases.
 

Some guy said:
There are elite teams in college sports both football and basketball.

usually 2-5 in football
Usually 3-10 in basketball.

there isn’t much that separates 6 from 40 in football.
there isn’t much that separates 11-50 in basketball,

it’s 6-10 opportunities taken advantage of or missed in both cases.
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I think there is a giant gap in basketball from 11 to 50
 

So excited for the season to start. This team is pretty stacked. Hopefully everyone meshes together.
Otis said:
For all you "The Sky is Falling" or "Pitino Needs to Go" posters who are predicting certain doom, I would like to point out just a few things.

1. Marcus Carr - This young man is quite possibly the best PG we have had since 1997? His assist to turnover ratio is tremendous and he doesn't have penchant for choking in the tight spots. He does what he needs to and gets the ball to his teammates who are best suited to score.

2. Gabe Kalesheur - A three year starter from the home state who endured a bad shooting year. He still played solid defense and I believe will benefit from not having to be the primary (or only) outside shooting threat. Look for this young man to come back and contribute more effectively and make people pay when he's open!

3. Both Gach - Although his name sounds like two people vomiting in the tunnel, this young man from Austin will give us an idea of what we all thought we were going to see last year with Coffey playing the wing next to Carr and Gabe. A better shooter than Coffey, he should show us what was missing last year from what we all thought was going to be a near dream lineup. SO WHY ISN'T IT A DREAM LINEUP NOW??? I can't for the life of me tell you why it shouldn't be.

4. Johnson - A Rebounding force who knows how to score when plays aren't called for him. Sounds like a perfect blend to go with the three individuals listed prior to him. This guy sounds like a ball player who does what is needed and makes plays that are necessary to win. A little John Thomas or Old Man Coffey could never hurt a team and would be welcome any time!

5. Robbins - Defensive presence in the middle. Let me remind you of what the last defensive center did for the Gophers in his first year, Reggie Lynch led the league in blocks and helped raise the Gopher defense from the pits of ineptitude to what fourth place in the league! His absence the next year caused them to completely crater. Robbins could have a similar impact with his defensive presence. It's not that hard to project.

6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Ihnen, Mashburn, Williams, Curry, Mitchell - These guys are not your average Gopher bench fodder. Last year, Ihnen and Williams probably should have been starting and I'm not sure they won't push the starters for time as it is now! No way Ihnen and Williams should see less than 10-15 minutes per game! Mashburn, half of you guys were projecting as a starter! Hopefully you were right and he gets his time. Mitchell is a skilled 4 star recruit and I have him buried 9 deep on a Gopher depth chart and you guys are predicting a 12th place finish? Let me repeat that so it sinks in.
Our Gophers, have a four star recruit buried behind nine other guys on the depth chart and you are predicting we finish 12th in the league?

Well, I'm fresh out of points, but I think I've made mine.

There are more reasons for optimism for the upcoming season than there has been for a long, long time. No matter who is making the x's and o's.

Go Gophers!
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Nice write up. I honestly have no idea how well i think they are going to perform until i see the team in action. So hopefully Pitino has an intra squad scrimmage, because i will so be there
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
So excited for the season to start. This team is pretty stacked. Hopefully everyone meshes together.


Nice write up. I honestly have no idea how well i think they are going to perform until i see the team in action. So hopefully Pitino has an intra squad scrimmage, because i will so be there
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Yes, really hoping they bring that back this year.
 


die hard gopher said:
The way I look at it, you can recruit HS players to replace the graduating seniors and transfers to replace transfers.

We had two graduate plus one open schollie so those 3 went to 3 freshman. Those are openings you can plan for in advance

We had two transfers and one declared for the NBA so we filled those with transfers who match the eligibility of the guys transferring out
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The problem with bringing in too many transfers is how are you going to recruit any good HS players? HS players will not like having new upper class man come in every year and take away playing time.
I think you use transfers to fill in holes to help get you over the top, but build your team from HS players.
 
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Otis, I agree with your one through five points. But, it’s even better than that!
You have Ihnen at #6 and he may begin there but his upside could push him into the starting lineup at some point. He is our most spectacular player...potentionally.

No mention of Mutaf or Omersa? Omersa will carve out minutes through sheer grit and hustle. Mutaf is too used to being “the guy” not to challenge for minutes as well.
No Freeman? Guessing Freeman is ahead of Mitchell. I’m not nearly as confident as you that Mitchell will see the floor. He is highly rated on height and athleticism, not skill. He can dunk.
Mashburn will be in the mix with Williams. Happy both are here.
Curry is a bonus if he can contribute beyond towel waving.
That is our best group in 20 years!! But, we need two waivers and Carr needs to want to be here before it is a reality.
 

Some guy said:
Disagree. It’s making 6-10 more critical buckets during the year that’s the difference between a 3-4 seed and the bubble
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It is ok to disagree. We find teams 11 points per game in efficiency between team 50 and team 11. Those teams at 50 do not get to pick and choose where to add fictional baskets that have to be earned against good ,even great defenses. Speaking of defense, when your not getting these keys baskets you can be the team that gets key stops defensively. You can not control shots going in as well as stopping shots from going in. If we had a top 20 defense we had a great chance to win several more games. The best teams not counting Gonzaga defend.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I get that, but save it for after the season. It derails nearly every thread and especially the in game threads.
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I can respect that to a degree, or even saving it for dedicated threads. Again though, case in point. The fact that is has permeated all of the threads has to make you think maybe there's something to it, yeah?
 

builtbadgers said:
It is ok to disagree. We find teams 11 points per game in efficiency between team 50 and team 11. Those teams at 50 do not get to pick and choose where to add fictional baskets that have to be earned against good ,even great defenses. Speaking of defense, when your not getting these keys baskets you can be the team that gets key stops defensively. You can not control shots going in as well as stopping shots from going in. If we had a top 20 defense we had a great chance to win several more games. The best teams not counting Gonzaga defend.
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Not going to disagree with you that defense is important.

but you can’t tell me that I can’t pick and choose which baskets are more Important

of course I can.

every basket and every possession of defense is more important in a 1 point game than every basket and defensive possession in a 13 point game in terms of its impact on the final record of the season. You are right. They are all equal in an efficiency metric. Even the ones with the backups in garbage time are equally as important in an efficiency metric.
 

Some guy said:
Not going to disagree with you that defense is important.

but you can’t tell me that I can’t pick and choose which baskets are more Important

of course I can.

every basket and every possession of defense is more important in a 1 point game than every basket and defensive possession in a 13 point game in terms of its impact on the final record of the season. You are right. They are all equal in an efficiency metric. Even the ones with the backups in garbage time are equally as important in an efficiency metric.
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Except of course the best teams actually catch the short end of the stick in the efficiency for garbage time as they have much larger leads and are playing walk on players and the deep bench. The if thing just does not carry any weight with me otherwise the other team could say, if we just had not missed those free throws, or Joe turned his ankle, or that bad call. Bad teams play poorly in close games, they simply play worse than good teams.
 

builtbadgers said:
It is ok to disagree. We find teams 11 points per game in efficiency between team 50 and team 11. Those teams at 50 do not get to pick and choose where to add fictional baskets that have to be earned against good ,even great defenses. Speaking of defense, when your not getting these keys baskets you can be the team that gets key stops defensively. You can not control shots going in as well as stopping shots from going in. If we had a top 20 defense we had a great chance to win several more games. The best teams not counting Gonzaga defend.
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We were dam close to making tourney if we didnt choke 3 or 4 games away. Many games come down to the wire. You cant tell me that the number 11 team is that much better than 50. Dont know what wisconsin was, but beat them by 20 and could have beaten them on road. Beat ohio state twice. Is there a difference between 4 and 50? Definately, but not sure the number 11 team is that consistent either so I would say there is a difference, but not by much at all. We dont gag 4 games last year and where are we? Difference not much. We weren't ranked very high at all last year, but never got blown out against top 20 teams. Had a chance to beat many of them and did beat many of them.
 

if this team gets all the waivers, we should be pretty deep which will be the first time we can say that in the Pitino era (barring injury of course). Will be interesting to see if that changes the style Pitino plays or if he goes to the style many of us thought we'd see when he was hired with more pace and transition (not saying this would work in the B10 by any means, just bringing it up) and if that changes the perception of if he can coach or not.
 

upnorthkid said:
if this team gets all the waivers, we should be pretty deep which will be the first time we can say that in the Pitino era (barring injury of course). Will be interesting to see if that changes the style Pitino plays or if he goes to the style many of us thought we'd see when he was hired with more pace and transition (not saying this would work in the B10 by any means, just bringing it up) and if that changes the perception of if he can coach or not.
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Not sure what Pitino will do, but I know one thing that works offensively no matter what conference your in is putting the ball in the basket and playing good defense. That will win you games all day long. Especially if you can play good defense. Then you dont have to score as much. I'm not sure one thing or another works in big ten as 14 teams play different styles and have different ideas on how to win. If we get all waivers though we should have pretty good team!
 

alchemy2u said:
The problem with bringing in too many transfers is how are you going to recruit any good HS players? HS players will not like having new upper class man come in every year and take away playing time.
I think you use transfers to fill in holes to help get you over the top, but build your team from HS players.
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. You need manageable and repeatable. Sadly, you need a team of Davison’s to compete in the big ten.
 

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