Why Stoudermire at WR?

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dpodoll68

dpodoll68

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Reading the practice reviews got me thinking: why did the staff move Troy to WR? It seems as though we're pretty thin at CB after Simmons, Carter, and Sherels. At WR, we already have Decker, Green, Carpenter, Brandon, McKnight, and the seemingly forgotten Pittman, not to mention a potential contributor in Allen.
From everything I've read, it seems as though Stoudermire will rarely/never be used as a traditional receiver from the line of scrimmage, but rather for end-arounds, reverses, bubble screens, etc. It's not as though you must have an intricate knowledge of the offense to be able to run these types of plays. You must only know how to run behind blocks, which he obviously does from his return experience.
I think our staff is missing out on an opportunity to strengthen our defensive backfield by moving him away from there. He can be a nickel/dime CB and still be available to do all the things we need him to do as a change-up type offensively. He has to be at least as good as Collado by default, and definitely has more speed/explosion to close the gap for pass breakups.
Is it because they were concerned about his read/recognition ability on defense? I think it has to have arisen more out of concerns regarding his defensive abilities rather than his offensive potential, for the reasons I've outlined above. I'm hoping someone with more inside knowledge than I can answer this question.
 

Stoudemire!

I think the coaching staff wants to split him with returning punts and kickoffs along with being a WR.

Anyone agree?

Go Gophers!!
 

Maybe because he's a better receiver than cornerback and will be able to contribute there more.

And you're selling Collado short, he's alright for a dime CB, just not a starter. Plus, Johnny Johnson's out there, and Kerry Lewis I think is going CB and might get some time. Troy wouldn't be playing either position all that extensively anyway.
 

You must not have been at the spring game dpodoll, he was so explosive with the ball I expect HUGE things from him this year, a la Percy Harvin...
 

Were you not at the spring game?

Stoudemire is our fastest and most explosive player. We need to get the ball in his hands.
 


Curseislifted33 said:
You must not have been at the spring game dpodoll, he was so explosive with the ball I expect HUGE things from him this year, a la Percy Harvin...
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Zeppelin Gopher said:
Were you not at the spring game?

Stoudemire is our fastest and most explosive player. We need to get the ball in his hands.
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I understand these things. I am not disputing that we need the ball in his hands. Did you even read my post?
 

At first I was in the camp that thought he should stay at CB because of a lack of depth and also because you want your best athletes playing D. However I then saw how good TS was with the ball in his hands. It is a special talent to be able to make D1 athletes miss and TS has it. Guys like BPT are great athletes but aren't dynamic with the ball in their hands. Some guys simply have that ability and when you get a guy who has it you need to utilize him, especially when you don't have anyone else with that ability (Hayo and Allen may but neither has done it in the B10 like TS has). Plus I think he'll get plenty of touches. I see him as a slot WR eventually and he has the quickness and speed to be a very good one. Also remember that we don't have any other gamebreakers on offense. None of the RBs has shown great speed or open field ability, Decker is great but not a guy that'll turn a 7yd slant into a 40 yd TD, Green has good but not great speed, and Hayo hasn't played yet. Right now TS is our most explosive player
 

Seems like a legitimate question to ask and the question had some equally legit responses. Either way, I'm glad TS is a Gopher - and it will be fun to see him with the ball in his hands.
 

Think back to earlier this decade. At the time our defense probably needed Marion Barber more than the offense did, but obviously offense was where he belonged. I see a similar situation with Stoudermire. Our future depth at CB is a looks a little thin right now, but we should not let that prevent us from putting Stoudermire where he belongs. That is, on offense with the ball in his hands.

Also, it's not like our offense was not exactly a juggernaut last year. We need help on that side of the ball too. What I really like about the move is what others have said, that Stoudermire offers our offense something we sorely need, an explosive threat.
 



TS gives us the most experienced and proven option of the "Flash Trio" (aka Allen, Carpenter and Troy) and more options just means more chances for success. Better to have him with more opportunities to contribute than to have him as (at best) our 5th CB.
 

I appreciate the responses, but I don't think anyone (outside of oleboy41) gets what I'm saying.

This is what it appears his role will be this season:
1. Kick return
2. Punt return (?)
3. Come in 1-2 plays per series for potential or actual plays like the ones I mentioned earlier

This is what I feel it should have been:
1. Kick return
2. Punt return
3. Play D, as nickel/dime back, on the field on all obvious passing downs
4. Come in 1-2 plays per series for potential or actual plays like the ones I mentioned earlier

It is without question that our WR corps is deeper than our CB group. Moreover, Brewster thus far has shown a more consistent ability to get higher-rated WR recruits than CB recruits. He's had two big CB gets - Simmons and Carter - and the former is already gone after this season. And while we do have viable backups like Dandridge and Lewis, and guys like Lewis and Veazie in the pipeline, this situation will not change during the time Stoudermire is here.

I liken it to Charles Woodson. Of course, Stoudermire is nowhere near the player he was at Michigan, but I envisioned the same type of role for him - that is, full-time defensive player, contribute on offense in spot-duty, when and where he could have the most impact. With both of our starting CBs graduating this year, there was potential for him to learn and grow in the position over last season, spring ball, and this season, and possibly compete for the starting spot opposite Carter next year. With him being behind Carpenter, Green, Brandon, McKnight, Allen, and Keise, there's virtually no chance he will have the same impact he could have on defense.

I just see it as a wasted opportunity.

Also, I don't see the Barber comparison as legitimate. Once they saw what he could do from scrimmage as a freshman, he was entrenched there and never saw the field as a DB for the Gophers. Stoudermire came in as a DB, and once the staff saw what he could do with the ball, they made the (hasty) decision to convert him to WR, and thus waste his defensive potential.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Stoudermire came in as a DB, and once the staff saw what he could do with the ball, they made the (hasty) decision to convert him to WR, and thus waste his defensive potential.
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Maybe they saw what he could do as a DB?

But hey, what do the coaches who see him every day know?
 

WriterGoph said:
TS gives us the most experienced and proven option of the "Flash Trio" (aka Allen, Carpenter and Troy) and more options just means more chances for success. Better to have him with more opportunities to contribute than to have him as (at best) our 5th CB.
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Writer - you posted while I was typing, so I didn't see yours until after mine was up.

You make valid points, but I would consider Hayo much more experienced and proven than TS.

I would also say Stoudermire would have been our #4 CB with a full season last year and full offseason this year at the position, but either way, don't you think a #5 CB (even one who can't also play some offense, as TS would anyway) is more valuable than a #7/8 WR who can't play any D?
 



Maximus said:
Maybe they saw what he could do as a DB?

But hey, what do the coaches who see him every day know?
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No need to get smart - this is exactly why I wrote in my initial post:

dpodoll68 said:
Is it because they were concerned about his read/recognition ability on defense? I think it has to have arisen more out of concerns regarding his defensive abilities rather than his offensive potential, for the reasons I've outlined above. I'm hoping someone with more inside knowledge than I can answer this question.
Click to expand...

If that is why they moved him to WR, that is a sound and legitimate reason. But even at that, I don't know how you could make that determination based off fall practice and a few games at the position.
 

I guess it's a matter of opinion, obviously.

Hayo is obviously more experienced as a playmaker in general, but what I was getting at was on Big 10 or D-1 level. I think Troy's time on the field last year will be huge AND what we saw in the spring game is a nice indicator.

As far as the depth chart: yeah if Troy played CB all last year, he might be #4, but as it stands now, Collado has more game experience. We can't really change that now, so I was thinking forward. And I don't think Troy will be #7/8 at WR. I think we will be surprised and he will be more like #4/5.
 

WriterGoph said:
And I don't think Troy will be #7/8 at WR. I think we will be surprised and he will be more like #4/5.
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Who do you envision him surpassing?

He's firmly behind (and will not pass): Decker, Kuznia, Carpenter, Green

He would have to pass: McKnight, Brandon, Allen, Pittman

It's certainly plausible. But that's a lot of "what ifs" to throw away his defense.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If that is why they moved him to WR, that is a sound and legitimate reason. But even at that, I don't know how you could make that determination based off fall practice and a few games at the position.
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The coaches get paid a lot of money to make that determination. Lee's been a DB coach for 18 years. At the time when TS was switched, Roof was either a D-Coord or head coach for the past 14 years.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Who do you envision him surpassing?

He's firmly behind (and will not pass): Decker, Kuznia, Carpenter, Green

He would have to pass: McKnight, Brandon, Allen, Pittman

It's certainly plausible. But that's a lot of "what ifs" to throw away his defense.
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I agree on Decker, Carpenter and Green. I think with his speed and athleticism, he has a chance to pass Kuznia. Pittman, Allen and Brandon have proven nothing yet, so he is even with them (at worst). McKnight is a toss-up, but he is different type of WR than Troy.

Like I said, he could get up to #4/5, especially if he plays like the spring game.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Who do you envision him surpassing?

He's firmly behind (and will not pass): Decker, Kuznia, Carpenter, Green

He would have to pass: McKnight, Brandon, Allen, Pittman

It's certainly plausible. But that's a lot of "what ifs" to throw away his defense.
Click to expand...

So playing him on defense isn't a lot of "what ifs"? So, he's a subpar talent and would have a hard time surpassing eight wide receivers, but such a supreme talent, he could be our nickelback. Gotcha.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Who do you envision him surpassing?

He's firmly behind (and will not pass): Decker, Kuznia, Carpenter, Green

He would have to pass: McKnight, Brandon, Allen, Pittman

It's certainly plausible. But that's a lot of "what ifs" to throw away his defense.
Click to expand...

I have to seriously disagree, here. The staff made a real effort to get TS the ball last year even though he switched positions mid season. All indications seem to have him as the #3 or 4 guy behind Decker, Hayo and maybe Green. Also, he's best suited for the slot meaning he may in fact be the #3 WR in 3 WR formations. I think he and Hayo will be the two main slot guys (Hayo moving to the slot if he, Decker and Green are on the field together). I don't know where you're getting your depth chart info from but from all accounts Kuznia, Pittman and Brandon have barely been mentioned and I have 0 clue why you assume the true frosh and undersized Allen is ahead of him on the depth chart. From everything I've seen he's at the very worst the #5 guy if you put McKnight before him but I think he'll see about 20 plays a game on offense.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Reading the practice reviews got me thinking: why did the staff move Troy to WR? It seems as though we're pretty thin at CB after Simmons, Carter, and Sherels. At WR, we already have Decker, Green, Carpenter, Brandon, McKnight, and the seemingly forgotten Pittman, not to mention a potential contributor in Allen.
From everything I've read, it seems as though Stoudermire will rarely/never be used as a traditional receiver from the line of scrimmage, but rather for end-arounds, reverses, bubble screens, etc. It's not as though you must have an intricate knowledge of the offense to be able to run these types of plays. You must only know how to run behind blocks, which he obviously does from his return experience.
I think our staff is missing out on an opportunity to strengthen our defensive backfield by moving him away from there. He can be a nickel/dime CB and still be available to do all the things we need him to do as a change-up type offensively. He has to be at least as good as Collado by default, and definitely has more speed/explosion to close the gap for pass breakups.
Is it because they were concerned about his read/recognition ability on defense? I think it has to have arisen more out of concerns regarding his defensive abilities rather than his offensive potential, for the reasons I've outlined above. I'm hoping someone with more inside knowledge than I can answer this question.
Click to expand...

They didn't want to move Royston to offense.
 

Maximus said:
So playing him on defense isn't a lot of "what ifs"? So, he's a subpar talent and would have a hard time surpassing eight wide receivers, but such a supreme talent, he could be our nickelback. Gotcha.
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What's with all the animosity and putting words in my mouth? I don't think a single thing I've said in this thread has been out of line.
I'm not at all disputing his ability to contribute on offense, as I've said multiple times. I do question his ability to contribute from the line of scrimmage when asked to run routes and catch passes downfield like a traditional receiver.

If you do the same exercise I've just done with the offense, you'd come up with this for defense:

He's firmly behind (and will not pass): Simmons, Sherels, Carter

He would have to pass: Collado, Dandridge, McKelton, ? (maybe others I'm forgetting)

I don't think it's too much of a stretch, from a simple numbers standpoint, to see where he could have contributed on D.

But keep on being feisty, ignoring what I've actually said, overreacting, and putting words in my mouth.
 

oleboy41 said:
The staff made a real effort to get TS the ball last year even though he switched positions mid season.
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He had 3 catches for 13 yards.

oleboy41 said:
I don't know where you're getting your depth chart info from but from all accounts Kuznia, Pittman and Brandon have barely been mentioned and I have 0 clue why you assume the true frosh and undersized Allen is ahead of him on the depth chart.
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I should've been clearer - I wasn't typing them in terms of a straight depth chart, but rather clustering them into "tiers", if you will. My point was to show that we have a lot of quality depth on offense, and not so much on defense. I don't really think Allen would play before him.

I didn't attend the spring game, so someone please enlighten me - has he shown the hands and the ability to consistently catching the ball running routes and going downfield like a "traditional" WR?
 

i think that this is a valid question.

i know that he is great with the ball in his hands, but i do remember him booting at least one kick late last season. i have yet to see him actually make a catch. (perhaps he is not a good receiver:eek:)

does anybody have any idea as to how good he is at receiving, rather than returning kicks and running reverses?
 

Offense or Defense, Troy is a playmaker, but he seems like a better spark for the offense. I think WR is a better spot for him for that very reason.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
i think that this is a valid question.

i know that he is great with the ball in his hands, but i do remember him booting at least one kick late last season. i have yet to see him actually make a catch. (perhaps he is not a good receiver:eek:)

does anybody have any idea as to how good he is at receiving, rather than returning kicks and running reverses?
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Thank you. This was my point all along.

Anyone care to answer the question?
 

If I remember correctly, he caught quite a few short passes in the spring game and turned a few into long gainers. Sorry, that's all I got.
 

I'm sure we'll have a much better read on this situation in two weeks or so. Plus, the fact that Troy has been working with the WR's and catching passes from Weber since spring ball has to have helped him.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Thank you. This was my point all along.

Anyone care to answer the question?
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I don't think anyone can answer for sure but I think that he appears to have more potential as a WR. HE was a QB in high school and only moved to WR mid season last year so I'm sure he's pretty raw but he has natural instincts and ability with the ball in his hands as he showed on returns last year and the few times he touched the ball on offense. As I said before I think he has the rare ability to be dynamic with the ball in his hands which is why the staff wants him on offense. Remember that he is still young, too so he has 2 more years to make an impact. I have to assume that they feel comfortable with the young corners as well.
 

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