Which Basketball Coach gets Fired First?

[BarnBurner]

No to little NIL is about the equivalent to having restrictions. Not a full on excuse to lose like this though. Other schools lack NIL and still win, but they mostly do so by development and it takes longer.

How do you think you get the high level guards in the portal?

You are consistently good at making excuses and then qualifying your excuses. Well done.

Monson came here after what was termed at the time the worst academic scandal in all of college sports history. The U admin bared its chest and ASKED to be punished.

No comparison, but continue making excuses and then qualifying them.

 

[bga1]

No to little NIL is about the equivalent to having restrictions. Not a full on excuse to lose like this though. Other schools lack NIL and still win, but they mostly do so by development and it takes longer.

How do you think you get the high level guards in the portal?

If you don't think Coach Johnson can get high level guards in the portal then we have the wrong coach. He can and he should. His job should depend on it. There are plenty of low D1 and some D2 schools that have a better PG situation than us.

 

[bga1]

Johnson was one who could’ve stayed. Robbins was following his uncle and Gabe was out no matter whoever was the coach. So yeah they weren’t in the portal yet, but those two were gone. Counting them as still here and part of what Ben could’ve kept is also just as disingenuous to the conversation. So feel free to keep pretending that they were options and continue to say it enough, maybe it’ll come true…

Johnson should have kept Conroy. With Robbins, that team would have been pretty good and might have given Ben the momentum needed to get people exited. As I recall there were rumors that the administration didn't want two old white guys on staff- I would hope that is not true.

 

[Gopherfan84]

If you don't think Coach Johnson can get high level guards in the portal then we have the wrong coach. He can and he should. His job should depend on it.

He’s not going to get the easy and obvious ones cause they are getting a lot of money. You’ll have to get a kid who doesn’t want/need NIL or is under that radar. Sure his job depends on it to an extent, but it’s one reason why it’s harder here. The best and correct route is to do what other schools like us do and develop from within which in turn can take longer.

There are plenty of low D1 and some D2 schools that have a better PG situation than us.

This is over dramatic. There are few low level D1 guard groups who’d do better and if there is one D2 it’d be amazing. B1G basketball is hard and the elite survive.

Johnson should have kept Conroy. With Robbins, that team would have been pretty good and might have given Ben the momentum needed to get people exited. As I recall there were rumors that the administration didn't want two old white guys on staff- I would hope that is not true.

I don’t ever like taking a coach for one player. Conroy is fine and a good solid coach, but I prefer Thorson. I think Ben built his staff fine. There is diversity in ages and experience. All three assistants are good recruiters. I know Thorson is an amazing teacher.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

He’s not going to get the easy and obvious ones cause they are getting a lot of money. You’ll have to get a kid who doesn’t want/need NIL or is under that radar. Sure his job depends on it to an extent, but it’s one reason why it’s harder here. The best and correct route is to do what other schools like us do and develop from within which in turn can take longer.

Except we're not doing that at the guard position either.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Except we're not doing that at the guard position either.

It hasn’t even been two years. We don’t know yet because our guards are young. We have recruited and brought/will be bringing in 3 “guards” in two years (Henley, Christie, and Carrington) and if you want to count wings you can throw Betts in there too. We will likely have Asuma committed in a month.
We will see on the transfer portal, but those are just holdovers until we develop ones. Hitting in the portal will be tougher for us. We can/need to find competent, but we won’t get elite unless it’s a kid who just wants to come home unless we start spending

 

[bga1]

He’s not going to get the easy and obvious ones cause they are getting a lot of money. You’ll have to get a kid who doesn’t want/need NIL or is under that radar. Sure his job depends on it to an extent, but it’s one reason why it’s harder here. The best and correct route is to do what other schools like us do and develop from within which in turn can take longer.

If it is the best route- then it shouldn't be hard to sell the recruiting to it. You are selling it right now.

This is over dramatic. There are few low level D1 guard groups who’d do better and if there is one D2 it’d be amazing. B1G basketball is hard and the elite survive.

You must not be high on Parker Fox

I don’t ever like taking a coach for one player. Conroy is fine and a good solid coach, but I prefer Thorson. I think Ben built his staff fine. There is diversity in ages and experience. All three assistants are good recruiters. I know Thorson is an amazing teacher.

We couldn't have had both?

Your post indicates that you wouldn't change anything. Burn it down. Ground up build. Terrible results and now you say it is going to be tough to recruit. That's the best way?

 

[bga1]

It hasn’t even been two years. We don’t know yet because our guards are young. We have recruited and brought/will be bringing in 3 “guards” in two years (Henley, Christie, and Carrington) and if you want to count wings you can throw Betts in there too. We will likely have Asuma committed in a month.
We will see on the transfer portal, but those are just holdovers until we develop ones. Hitting in the portal will be tougher for us. We can/need to find competent, but we won’t get elite unless it’s a kid who just wants to come home unless we start spending

What result will you be happy with next year?
When should we EXPECT an NCAA berth? Not talking about a natty here- just be one of the best 68 teams one in ____________years.

 

[BarnBurner]

If you don't think Coach Johnson can get high level guards in the portal then we have the wrong coach. He can and he should. His job should depend on it. There are plenty of low D1 and some D2 schools that have a better PG situation than us.

84 makes excuses over and over. Same excuses for the same issues troubling this team.

And, no way could obj be expected to construct a roster capable of winning.

 

[BarnBurner]

It hasn’t even been two years. We don’t know yet because our guards are young. We have recruited and brought/will be bringing in 3 “guards” in two years (Henley, Christie, and Carrington) and if you want to count wings you can throw Betts in there too. We will likely have Asuma committed in a month.
We will see on the transfer portal, but those are just holdovers until we develop ones. Hitting in the portal will be tougher for us. We can/need to find competent, but we won’t get elite unless it’s a kid who just wants to come home unless we start spending

Lets here it now - will Asuma be a high level B10 PG, if he signs here?

 

[Otis]

All of you thinking Monson had it worse are hitting the pipe a little too hard.

Monsoon had a rep as a building program coach and was just coming off an Elite Eight run.

He inherited a team of guys which included an NBA center, Dusty Rychart and Bickerstaff. There was no portal free agency to let these guys transfer. He had the chops to recruit Rickert and Humpfries because of the status the team had built with Clem.

Have NCAA sanctions slowed down Arizona, Kansas, UNLV back in the day? Hell no!

Johnson’s cupboard was empty.

Ben hasn’t fixed the ship but what he has done he has done on his own without the status or NIL to really get the top transfers.

He deserves at least another year to see if his recruits can gel and develop!

But man, could he use a defensive PG.

A good defensive PG up top combined with Wingspan guarding the rim would give the Gophers a defense that allows the offense to be below average and still win.

It may be hard to watch but it is a formula that works.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

It hasn’t even been two years. We don’t know yet because our guards are young. We have recruited and brought/will be bringing in 3 “guards” in two years (Henley, Christie, and Carrington) and if you want to count wings you can throw Betts in there too. We will likely have Asuma committed in a month.
We will see on the transfer portal, but those are just holdovers until we develop ones. Hitting in the portal will be tougher for us. We can/need to find competent, but we won’t get elite unless it’s a kid who just wants to come home unless we start spending

We won't have a freshman PG on next year's roster either. So now we have to wait 4 years before we bring in a freshman PG? That's how slow we need to develop? That is ridiculous.

I will die on the hill that Henley is not a guard, he's a 3. From what I've seen from Christie he looks more like a 3 than a guard as well. Carrington is the only potential 2 guard I see. We'll see what he looks like next year when he's hopefully healthier, but I thought he'd at least be able to come in and play D as a freshman. But he was terrible at that as well. My expectations for him are very low. Betts is not a guard either.

Taking 4 years to bring in one freshman PG is another one of the many fireable offenses for Ben. There is no excuse for it to take that long.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

All of you thinking Monson had it worse are hitting the pipe a little too hard.

Monsoon had a rep as a building program coach and was just coming off an Elite Eight run.

He inherited a team of guys which included an NBA center, Dusty Rychart and Bickerstaff. There was no portal free agency to let these guys transfer. He had the chops to recruit Rickert and Humpfries because of the status the team had built with Clem.

Have NCAA sanctions slowed down Arizona, Kansas, UNLV back in the day? Hell no!

Johnson’s cupboard was empty.

Ben hasn’t fixed the ship but what he has done he has done on his own without the status or NIL to really get the top transfers.

He deserves at least another year to see if his recruits can gel and develop!

But man, could he use a defensive PG.

A good defensive PG up top combined with Wingspan guarding the rim would give the Gophers a defense that allows the offense to be below average and still win.

It may be hard to watch but it is a formula that works.

There is no legitimate argument that Ben has it worse than Monson. Has the transfer portal slowed down any of the other new coaches over the last 2 years? No, they've all reaped the benefits of it.

I think you're hitting Ben's pipe a little to hard.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

There is no legitimate argument that Ben has it worse than Monson. Has the transfer portal slowed down any of the other new coaches over the last 2 years? No, they've all reaped the benefits of it.

I think you're hitting Ben's pipe a little to hard.

Good grief. One was a coach that was handed a program that had literally been given the death penalty and one was handed a program that had won 6 B1G games the previous year, and has access to the transfer portal to IMMEDIATELY improve the roster.

At the present time, we're talking about a coach that has brought the Gophers Mens BB program to epic and historical levels of failure. 14th in a 14 team conference, and it's not really close. The 12th place team in the B1G right now has SIX (6) conference wins. The Gophers managed ONE to date.

 

[Otis]

Actually, I’m not a Ben Johnson fan in the least.

I wanted a coach who was somewhat established. There were better choices at the time. Like Gates, I don’t know who the offered it to before settling for Ben. I thought they could do better. In fact I was widely ridiculed for voicing my displeasure with the hire.

He’s done alright recruiting, but so far that’s all he’s done.

 

[bga1]

All of you thinking Monson had it worse are hitting the pipe a little too hard.

Monsoon had a rep as a building program coach and was just coming off an Elite Eight run.

He inherited a team of guys which included an NBA center, Dusty Rychart and Bickerstaff. There was no portal free agency to let these guys transfer. He had the chops to recruit Rickert and Humpfries because of the status the team had built with Clem.

Have NCAA sanctions slowed down Arizona, Kansas, UNLV back in the day? Hell no!

Johnson’s cupboard was empty.

Ben hasn’t fixed the ship but what he has done he has done on his own without the status or NIL to really get the top transfers.

He deserves at least another year to see if his recruits can gel and develop!

But man, could he use a defensive PG.

A good defensive PG up top combined with Wingspan guarding the rim would give the Gophers a defense that allows the offense to be below average and still win.

It may be hard to watch but it is a formula that works.

By year three, Monson had a roster that was all his recruits and he went 9-7 in the Big Ten. He was operating under a huge cloud and on probation- but yes he started year one with a roster- which Ben did not (by choice). By every measure, Monson has done FAR better than Ben. His two years he was 9-23..... 28% winning in the Big Ten. Ben will go 12.5% or 15% if he gets another win. If Ben goes .500 next year- he will be the coach for many years to come. If he goes out and gets the right portal guys to add to what he has in and coming in that is attainable with good coaching.

 

[Otis]

Monson might still be the coach if he could have kept Rickert on campus and held on to Humphfries for another year.

An established coach who can game plan and teach can overcome NCAA restrictions. Jim Dutcher did it.

A rookie coach selling freezing Minnesota and its decrepit stadium with no cash to offer ain’t going to get it done. I’m amazed at the recruits he has brought in as freshmen!

This thread is about Coyle throwing a newbie in with very little support and hiring a legend who had never coached before. He has really set Gopher basketball back.

 

[bga1]

Monson might still be the coach if he could have kept Rickert on campus and held on to Humphfries for another year.

Another year of Rickert would have been huge for him. He got to the NCAAs without Hump the very next year. The problem is, he followed that up with lousy recruiting. So I am not sure about that one...

 

[Gopherfan84]

What result will you be happy with next year?
When should we EXPECT an NCAA berth? Not talking about a natty here- just be one of the best 68 teams one in ____________years.

Next year NIT/Bubble. NCAA the year after

 

[Gopherfan84]

Another year of Rickert would have been huge for him. He got to the NCAAs without Hump the very next year. The problem is, he followed that up with lousy recruiting. So I am not sure about that one...

Humphries and Rickert were both bad team guys and hard to play with

 

[Gopherfan84]

If it is the best route- then it shouldn't be hard to sell the recruiting to it. You are selling it right now.

Agreed Ben hasn’t locked down a high school recruit and that’s on him. The ones he just missed out on were good and their selling point was time. That time will likely get us Asuma.

You must not be high on Parker Fox

Single players at the D2 level can move up. I was talking about a whole position group.

We couldn't have had both?

Your post indicates that you wouldn't change anything. Burn it down. Ground up build. Terrible results and now you say it is going to be tough to recruit. That's the best way?

I think having both wouldn’t have been positive because I like diversity in my staff. I like the older veteran coach, the others I want with recruiting backgrounds and younger. I don’t like having two old guys on staff personally.
Full roster deconstructing was necessary imo cause the locker room was toxic. I wish they’d been able to keep Johnson and Gabe. One I think they had a shot at and missed. Honestly the rest were injury prone, not good in the locker room or just bad players. He shouldn’t be losing at this rate either though. I’m disappointed in how bad we’ve been defensively although I’ve at least seen improvement. The best way imo is building through high school recruits and sprinkling in a transfer here or there (Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdues model) and to rely on high character guys. That is at least being attempted here now which is nice.

 

[Gopherfan84]

There is no legitimate argument that Ben has it worse than Monson. Has the transfer portal slowed down any of the other new coaches over the last 2 years? No, they've all reaped the benefits of it.

It’s ok people believe the program is in a bad spot. NIL is a legitimate argument.

I think you're hitting Ben's pipe a little to hard.

I’ve always enjoyed talk with you because you avoided this kind of crap. You’ve gotten worse and I get you’re upset at the product (justifiably so), but you’re better than that and actually add substance to a basketball conversation.

We won't have a freshman PG on next year's roster either. So now we have to wait 4 years before we bring in a freshman PG? That's how slow we need to develop? That is ridiculous.

I will die on the hill that Henley is not a guard, he's a 3. From what I've seen from Christie he looks more like a 3 than a guard as well. Carrington is the only potential 2 guard I see. We'll see what he looks like next year when he's hopefully healthier, but I thought he'd at least be able to come in and play D as a freshman. But he was terrible at that as well. My expectations for him are very low. Betts is not a guard either.

Taking 4 years to bring in one freshman PG is another one of the many fireable offenses for Ben. There is no excuse for it to take that long.

You and I disagree on there truly being a difference of a guard and wing. We need a portal guard who can handle the ball and defend. It won’t be an all star though most likely. We cannot wait for Asuma to develop into one like you said.

 

[bga1]

Agreed Ben hasn’t locked down a high school recruit and that’s on him. The ones he just missed out on were good and their selling point was time. That time will likely get us Asuma.

Single players at the D2 level can move up. I was talking about a whole position group.

I think having both wouldn’t have been positive because I like diversity in my staff. I like the older veteran coach, the others I want with recruiting backgrounds and younger. I don’t like having two old guys on staff personally.

I don't care what age or color the staff is. Win.

Full roster deconstructing was necessary imo cause the locker room was toxic. I wish they’d been able to keep Johnson and Gabe. One I think they had a shot at and missed. Honestly the rest were injury prone, not good in the locker room or just bad players. He shouldn’t be losing at this rate either though. I’m disappointed in how bad we’ve been defensively although I’ve at least seen improvement. The best way imo is building through high school recruits and sprinkling in a transfer here or there (Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdues model) and to rely on high character guys. That is at least being attempted here now which is nice.

Pretty much agree. If Ben wants to be a major college coach- he needs to get one really good guard in the portal this year. Two would be better. If he goes into next year with Cooper as the PG - I think its over for him...a death march.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Lets here it now - will Asuma be a high level B10 PG, if he signs here?

I highly doubt he will right away. Potential to be a really nice two way guard though (like a Hepburn).

 

[Gopherfan84]

I don't care what age or color the staff is. Win.

I think having a diverse staff helps win more and allows you to relate to more kids. That should in turn lead to more winning.

Pretty much agree. If Ben wants to be a major college coach- he needs to get one really good guard in the portal this year. Two would be better. If he goes into next year with Cooper as the PG - I think it’s over for him...a death march.

I don’t disagree at all here

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Agree to disagree wx man!

Ben basically started from scratch.

Maybe his biggest mistake was taking so many seniors the first year.

I also suspect the Pitinos were fouling the transfer waters.

Pitino Hate!

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

It’s ok people believe the program is in a bad spot. NIL is a legitimate argument.

Then Football and Hockey shouldn't be winning either, but they are. Most schools outside of the blue bloods don't have high end NIL opportunities. The Gophers are similar to most B1G teams, and we've seen many schools in football and basketball struggle with the best recruits and highest NIL packages. This is an excuse.

I’ve always enjoyed talk with you because you avoided this kind of crap. You’ve gotten worse and I get you’re upset at the product (justifiably so), but you’re better than that and actually add substance to a basketball conversation.

It was a joke, a poor one I'll give you that.

You and I disagree on there truly being a difference of a guard and wing. We need a portal guard who can handle the ball and defend. It won’t be an all star though most likely. We cannot wait for Asuma to develop into one like you said.

All good teams have multiple guards who can shoot, distribute, and defend. We don't have one right now who can do all 3, and I don't see how that changes much for next season.