What will it take to crack the Cretin pipeline?

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dpodoll68 said:
Others have said it in this thread already, but it really does simply boil down to winning more and winning consistently. People try to make it more complicated than that, but it isn't. The "cool" schools got so because they win a lot which leads to a lot of other things that make them "cool". There's a reason that kids go to USC instead of Cal, and to Notre Dame instead of Indiana, and to Ohio State instead of Cincinnati.
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Ok, that's the simple answer. Why do kids go to Indiana and Kentucky instead of Minnesota?

You're comparing apples and oranges, but when you compare apples and apples we're not coming out smelling too great in these recruiting battles either.
 

I guess I just don't care anymore where he went, move on to the next recruit that wants to be here.
 

Ole said:
It's just a Cretin thing. Actually probably a private school thing, but Cretin appears to be the cream of the crop athletically.
These kids are recruited for their athletic talents in middle school from all over, to go play at a private school that is "the best" at everything. It's really no surprise when those same kids end up leaving to go play for "the best" colleges, even if it's probably a poor fit.
It's been going on there for years and years.
There's nothing that can be done. It seems like the coaches there have no sway whatsoever over the kids, since the coaches genuinely appear positive on the U.

As far as Cornell goes, I at least appreciate he took a proactive approach to the U, and at least didn't play with the media and fans like Ragnow, Henderson, Reid Travis, etc
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We get plenty of Lutheran private school kids. Bak!
 

It's what other people have said. . .it's all about winning and getting to the NFL.

You have to think about it, a lot of these athletes at Cretin left their high schools, their friends growing up, the comfort of going to the neighborhood school to help themselves get athletic scholarships and possibly play in the NFL. The idea of staying home to "stay home" wasn't even a big part of their HS life, it's not going to be a big part of how they choose a college. For most Cretin athletes, for better or worse, it's about winning and giving themselves the best chance to play professionally. If Kill keeps winning and we start sending a lot of guys to the NFL, it's a different ball game.

Couple other points:
There isn't an idea of "the U isn't cool", I know tons of Cretin kids who went to the U.

There is a slight private school preference with a lot of the kids, it's how most of us grew up. It's the reason why St. Thomas and St. Johns are full of Cretin kids.

The Cretin "pipeline" to Iowa certainly didn't have a ton to do with the Alts. I don't think an Alt has ever gone from Cretin to the U. Who really has gone to Iowa from Cretin? Broderick Bins? Rafael Eubanks? I really can't think of other scholarship players, I could be wrong. I'm sure Cornell's interest in Iowa was helped by Binns, who is a teacher at Cretin now, and they've had more success with putting people in the NFL.
 



Geez, I want the Gophers to win these recruiting battles and become a better team, but I just don't take it as personally as some people on this board seem to.

My take is pretty simple - if a player chooses School A over School B, it's because he liked School A better. Does anybody believe for a second that your average HS kid, while making one of the biggest decisions of his life, is thinking "I'm going to say I'm considering the Gophers, and then choose someone else, just to screw the Gopher fans." That's way too machiavellian for a HS kid.

Again, I'm a Gopher fan, and I want to see the team do well, but there's no mystery or conspiracy involved here. Kids choose other programs because they liked the other program better and feel the other program will give them what they're looking for.
 

STPGopher said:
Didn't John Alt go to Columbia Heights? Also, wasn't it his son Mark that played Hockey at Minnesota?

BTW Cornell went to OSU because he was embarrassed for Eddie George...:clap:

On a serious note, Just having visited a couple of feeder schools to Cretin, you can feel some pressure to go to Notre Dame. The rest is probably peer pressure, etc that drives some away from Minnesota.

While winning more games is part of it, winning the hearts and minds of local youth plays a factor. The coaches caravan is a good start.
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I believe that John Alt was or is a coach at CD, it doesn't help our case, when you have Iowa Alumni coaching at Cretin.
 

John Galt said:
Winning more will definitely help, but I think location also plays a factor. For most people, when you are done with high school you are ready to move onto something new and different. For a recruit that lives and goes to high school in Eden Prairie, moving to the U campus is a whole new world even though its only 20 miles away. It would feel like "moving away," even though you are relatively close to home. For someone at CDH, the U is literally 5 miles away, so I could see where it might feel to a recruit like being in the same neighborhood that you grew up in.
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Excellent point. I could see why someone would find it less interesting to "go off" to college a stones throw away from where they attended high school or where they live. Again....winning would help these kids to grow up as Gopher fans....making them more likely to stay.
 

maroonedinCA said:
You can just read the summary if you wish: http://jse.sagepub.com/content/9/1/67.short?rss=1&ssource=mfr

Also, just so you know, in the facts you did present STILL over 50% chose to remain local. There are approximately 100 D1 programs in the country and still over HALF decided to say in the same state. I don't think you're crafting a very good argument.
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Florida also has significantly more D1 schools. So the fact that 50% STILL chose to remain local simply means that they stayed SOMEWHERE in Florida. Not necessarily local.

Minnesota only has one D1 school. If you live in the cities and wanted to put even a slight distance between where you grew up and attend school.....you wouldn't have that option.
 



First of all many of these kids are transients. Moved here from out State. Some have had broken homes and live with
guardians. There is NO Gopher history in the families of these kids. Think about it. Barbers and Barber's, Olson and Olson's, Webber and Webber's Name me one CDH that was raised in a " Gopher " household. Some may say Joe Mauer. The Mauer family hated the U. Still do. ( It has something to do with Mauers dad ) Yes winning would help, but
also a household of Gopher history and traditions would be a big help
 

stocker08 said:
Florida also has significantly more D1 schools. So the fact that 50% STILL chose to remain local simply means that they stayed SOMEWHERE in Florida. Not necessarily local.

Minnesota only has one D1 school. If you live in the cities and wanted to put even a slight distance between where you grew up and attend school.....you wouldn't have that option.
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Fine, if it's such a problem here in Minnesota with kids fleeing the state lets look at the data instead of speculating, or is that too much work?

The composite rankings on another site take into account numerous rankings so I'll use that to balance it out. I looked over the past three years (didn't look at he 4th so depending on which way that swings please don't accuse me of cherry picking). 2014 and 2012 listed more than 10 players and 2013 only listed 6 meaning I analyzed the top 26 Minnesota recruits over the past three recruiting classes. Of those 11 chose the Gophers. However, 8 of those 26 didn't even have Gopher offers meaning that 11 of the 18 local kids who had Minnesota offers chose the U.

But, but, but Minnesota is so different! Kids don't respect us! They only have one option so they all leave!!!!

ETA: Just looked at 2011 and they don't show any players for the state of Minnesota and 2010 shows just two (Henderson and Gjere). 1 of 2 chose the U.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Fine, if it's such a problem here in Minnesota with kids fleeing the state lets look at the data instead of speculating, or is that too much work?

The composite rankings on another site take into account numerous rankings so I'll use that to balance it out. I looked over the past three years (didn't look at he 4th so depending on which way that swings please don't accuse me of cherry picking). 2014 and 2012 listed more than 10 players and 2013 only listed 6 meaning I analyzed the top 26 Minnesota recruits over the past three recruiting classes. Of those 11 chose the Gophers. However, 8 of those 26 didn't even have Gopher offers meaning that 11 of the 18 local kids who had Minnesota offers chose the U.

But, but, but Minnesota is so different! Kids don't respect us! They only have one option so they all leave!!!!

ETA: Just looked at 2011 and they don't show any players for the state of Minnesota and 2010 shows just two (Henderson and Gjere). 1 of 2 chose the U.
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You've failed in basic reasoning. The original Florida quote looked at the top 20 players in the state. It's not nearly as relevant.....as Florida produces MUCH more high end talent than Minnesota. Commonly.....it's only the top few kids in the state that receive offers that are as good or better than an offer from the Gophers. Top 20 Florida players are coveted across the nation.
 

stocker08 said:
You've failed in basic knowledge. The original Florida quote looked at the top 20 players in the state. It's not nearly as relevant.....as Florida produces MUCH more high end talent than Minnesota. Commonly.....it's only the top few kids in the state that receive offers that are as good or better than an offer from the Gophers. Top 20 Florida players are coveted across the nation.
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Which further proves my point (and also why I restricted to only 10 MN kids). If 20 kids from Florida receive offers from "across the nation" and still 50% choose to stay home that shows some geographic pull. Also, they're not staying home to FAU or UCF which you used as a central premise of your argument (significantly more D1 schools).

What does it mean to '[fail] in basic knowledge'? That's not a commonly used phrase.
 



maroonedinCA said:
Which further proves my point (and also why I restricted to only 10 MN kids). If 20 kids from Florida receive offers from "across the nation" and still 50% choose to stay home that shows some geographic pull. Also, they're not staying home to FAU or UCF which you used as a central premise of your argument (significantly more D1 schools).

What does it mean to '[fail] in basic knowledge'? That's not a commonly used phrase.
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Of course some players prefer to stay home. Some players have some loyalty to the home team. But when looking at these Florida schools.....we're talking about teams like FSU (just won the national championship), Florida, and Miami. Three powerhouse helmet schools. They pull players from across the nation too.

My basic reasoning is that some kids DON'T want to stay home. I'm pretty sure that each of those 20 Florida kids had at least two of those Florida helmet schools offering.....but still nearly 50% chose to leave. That doesn't even consider that these three schools are spread across Florida. More opportunities to move away for school, while staying relatively close. Many graduating high school students simply want that degree of freedom.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Which further proves my point (and also why I restricted to only 10 MN kids). If 20 kids from Florida receive offers from "across the nation" and still 50% choose to stay home that shows some geographic pull. Also, they're not staying home to FAU or UCF which you used as a central premise of your argument (significantly more D1 schools).

What does it mean to '[fail] in basic knowledge'? That's not a commonly used phrase.
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Are you dpo's mom, or sister? It's hilarious how every time you feel he's slighted you're on here within 5 minutes trying to defend his position.

If you go back and read my original post, my take was that one reason top CDH kids don't come to the U is because its 5 minutes away. That's a very different scenario than a kid in Tampa going to Miami or FSU. Those kids are still "getting away from home" even if they are playing in the state of Florida.

As for geographic pull, of course there is a bias to stay relatively close to home. 5 MN recruits with multiple D-1 offers don't wind up at BC, Miami, Texas, USC, and Oregon. In 2012, we got 7 out of the 8 MN recruits that we offered. Over the past 4-5 years, we are probably somewhere between 60-75%. The point being, we land a comparable number of in-state players that we offer compared to other schools. The outlier is CDH, where we don't land any...
 

John Galt said:
Are you dpo's mom, or sister? It's hilarious how every time you feel he's slighted you're on here within 5 minutes trying to defend his position.

If you go back and read my original post, my take was that one reason top CDH kids don't come to the U is because its 5 minutes away. That's a very different scenario than a kid in Tampa going to Miami or FSU. Those kids are still "getting away from home" even if they are playing in the state of Florida.

As for geographic pull, of course there is a bias to stay relatively close to home. 5 MN recruits with multiple D-1 offers don't wind up at BC, Miami, Texas, USC, and Oregon. In 2012, we got 7 out of the 8 MN recruits that we offered. Over the past 4-5 years, we are probably somewhere between 60-75%. The point being, we land a comparable number of in-state players that we offer compared to other schools. The outlier is CDH, where we don't land any...
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If I recall, I was in here before dpo on this particular topic...and no, but I also subscribe to his belief that too many posters try to grab at straws around here trying to find any reason they can to feel slighted or that there is some conspiracy against the U. The best answer is usually the simplest answer. Kids are drawn to high profile programs because they win. It was countered that it's some Minnesota wide problem where our kids want to get away (not your CDH post, specifically) when that argument just doesn't bare fruit when you actually look into it. I wasn't the one that took this argument outside of the CDH domain, others did, and used it to lament kids in this state taking the first bus out of here to further their agenda that somehow we're being slighted worse than other schools/states/fan bases. It's just not true based on the relative numbers of D1 FBS kids within our state.

ETA: By the way, based on your last paragraph, you agree with everything I've written. Maybe I got confused along the way and pulled you into something and misconstrued your position. If that's the case, apologies but I don't really feel like going through the entire thread at this time and hope you can take this as a sign of peace if that's the case.
 


It wasn't so bad when they went to Catholic Notre Dame, but they go anywhere but here.
 



Wisconsin typically signs their top in state recruits.
 

Go take a look at the Woody Hayes Practice Center and compare that to our practice facility, where the roof is leaking and the players eat training table in the lobby on fold up card tables, and then ask yourself which you would pick if you were a recruit. As the old saying goes: "if you want to run with the big dogs, you'd better be ready to piss in the tall grass". Get the new facility built so we can compete in the arms race that is college sports.
 

paulser21 said:
Wisconsin typically signs their top in state recruits.
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Combination of three things:

1) Wisconsin is heavily under-recruited by the big programs. Could be a chicken-egg thing.
2) Wisconsin is, admittedly, a much better program at this point
3) Wisconsin is, next to the Deep South, the most intensely parochial place I've ever been. Most Wisconsinites are born here and don't leave. My impression of Minnesota when I lived there, at least in the Twin Cities, was that loyalty extended to about 5 minutes ago and 5 minutes into the future.

Wisconsin resident.
 

Gopherprof said:
Combination of three things:

1) Wisconsin is heavily under-recruited by the big programs. Could be a chicken-egg thing.
2) Wisconsin is, admittedly, a much better program at this point
3) Wisconsin is, next to the Deep South, the most intensely parochial place I've ever been. Most Wisconsinites are born here and don't leave. My impression of Minnesota when I lived there, at least in the Twin Cities, was that loyalty extended to about 5 minutes ago and 5 minutes into the future.

Wisconsin resident.
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Funny thing to point 3 is that following grad school many employers from the MPLS area that came to campus warned potential non-Minnesotans that the Twin Cities was highly parochial as well. Having a few friends in various HR departments at some of the bigger employers many exit interviewees that are from out-of-state mention the fact that they find it difficult to break into professional or social scenes because everyone in this community already has such tight connections because they're 'born and raised' Minnesotans. Employers in Boston also apparently have trouble with this.
 

maroonedinCA said:
If I recall, I was in here before dpo on this particular topic...and no, but I also subscribe to his belief that too many posters try to grab at straws around here trying to find any reason they can to feel slighted or that there is some conspiracy against the U. The best answer is usually the simplest answer. Kids are drawn to high profile programs because they win. It was countered that it's some Minnesota wide problem where our kids want to get away (not your CDH post, specifically) when that argument just doesn't bare fruit when you actually look into it. I wasn't the one that took this argument outside of the CDH domain, others did, and used it to lament kids in this state taking the first bus out of here to further their agenda that somehow we're being slighted worse than other schools/states/fan bases. It's just not true based on the relative numbers of D1 FBS kids within our state.

ETA: By the way, based on your last paragraph, you agree with everything I've written. Maybe I got confused along the way and pulled you into something and misconstrued your position. If that's the case, apologies but I don't really feel like going through the entire thread at this time and hope you can take this as a sign of peace if that's the case.
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Peace offering accepted. My statement was about CDH players attending the U, not Minnesota recruits in general. If the Gophers start winning 10+ games every year and go to 3 consecutive Rose Bowls, will more CDH players go the U? Obviously the answer is yes. Will they all? Obviously no. Case in point being the Florida example I laid out.
 

Could it be as simple as, people from St. Paul don't like Minneapolis? Only joking of course, but I do know some folks in the lovely city to the East that avoid spending time and money in Minneapolis.
 

Unregistered User said:
Then why not Boston College? It is a wonderful Jesuit school, in a town roughly 10,000 time better than South Bend.
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Cretin's administration and school uphold Notre Dame as the best. Notre Dame is better than BC as a school. Notre Dame is in the midwest.
 

A few of the Cretin kids who are the big stars grow up in the area and go to Cretin's feeder schools, etc. That said, the majority of the big time recruits have forsaken their public area HS to go play for a football factory. They started out not having any loyalty to their area HS so it should come as no shocker then that they don't show any loyalty to their state college.
 

Indi1006 said:
A few of the Cretin kids who are the big stars grow up in the area and go to Cretin's feeder schools, etc. That said, the majority of the big time recruits have forsaken their public area HS to go play for a football factory. They started out not having any loyalty to their area HS so it should come as no shocker then that they don't show any loyalty to their state college.
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In all honesty, I don't expect recruits to show us blind loyalty as the state college. Its like sales, you can't just sit back and hope that everyone wants to come buy your product. We need to develop a program that gets some momentum and some consistent winning. If we build a program that plays well enough that kids in the area are hearing about us and thinking "gee, it would be awesome to suit up with those guys some day", then that is how we lock down the border. That's what Gopher hockey always was for me. I grew up dreaming of suiting up in the maroon and gold someday, and if I would have had the skills to do it, I would have signed with the Gophs in a heartbeat.
 

Statistics show that over 60% of high school graduates choose to attend a college outside of their commuting area. Why do they do that when most of them can save money by staying closer to home? Why wouldn't high school athletes choose to go away to school for the same reasons especially since it won't cost them anything?
 

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