Treyton Thompson... Deceiving?

[MennoSota]

Look at the TO column. TT is right in line with the rest of the team there.

Turnovers are what is killing this team. It means a lack of focus/discipline and a low-key hero ball mentality.

It means the game has not yet slowed down for our freshmen.

 

[Formerswish]

It's really helpful to learn how to shoot as a grade schooler or junior high kid IF somebody knew what they were doing to teach you...very few do or more people could shoot.

!00% disagree college kids can't improve shooting. Poor shooters in the NBA improve their shooting in dramatic fashion over the summer with the right instruction quite often.

100% true the way a shooter with a nice stroke can go from bad to good is mental. Not so much with what's a good shot versus bad is but in confidence, swagger, mindset. You need a shot whisperer who can get your stroke consistent and your mind convinced nobody shoots better than you do. Mindset, visualization is the secret. It's all mental...any thought but swish creeps in your head and you'll miss.

Free throws the same is true but you need a routine...it is a completely different shot. The others you walk into or dribble into and quick release is a thought. Free throws all different. You stand alone, everybody in the gym is watching you shoot. You MUST have a routine..Gophers do not!!

And it has become obvious Ben can't recruit or develop good shooters. There is no easier shot in basketball than the free throw. We can't shoot them. You can't be a shooter and not make free throws...certainly not with someone who knows how to get your shot fixed.

Shooting is 100% confidence if you have some competence as a shooter...if you can't impart that in your players as the head coach, then you sure need an assistant who can and who will become the head coach. They do keep score. You gotta score to win.

Or if you were able to teach Virginia defense so well that you could recruit 10 guys like Ola Joseph...teach em how to play defense...throw it at the rim and chase it and put it back in...hold your opponent under 48 and scrap together 50 points. That might work and be fun. But, that ain't happening either. Our defense has no calling cards.

The "ferocious defense" and "most important thing is recruiting guys who can shoot" philosophy has statistical shortcomings for verification, so far.

You're experience with shooters is different than mine is. You could take the best coaches in the world and the best sports psychologists, and you couldn't make Jordan Murphy a good outside shooter. That's not to say coaches can't help if they show confidence in their players and give them enough shooting repetitions, etc. But some players inherently have more touch and shooting skills than others. Carrington is a good example of a guy with excellent shooting touch, but he hasn't shown it, possibly because of confidence issues when he got on a bigger stage. I think eventually he'll show he's a good shooter. But shooting is NOT 100% confidence.

And to say "it has become obvious Ben can't recruit or develop good shooters?" Because they are lousy shooters this year doesn't mean they will be 2 years from now. It's on Ben that he recruited some guys who don't shoot well so far, but it's a little early to say he can't recruit or develop shooters.

 

[60's Guy]

You're experience with shooters is different than mine is. You could take the best coaches in the world and the best sports psychologists, and you couldn't make Jordan Murphy a good outside shooter. That's not to say coaches can't help if they show confidence in their players and give them enough shooting repetitions, etc. But some players inherently have more touch and shooting skills than others. Carrington is a good example of a guy with excellent shooting touch, but he hasn't shown it, possibly because of confidence issues when he got on a bigger stage. I think eventually he'll show he's a good shooter. But shooting is NOT 100% confidence.

And to say "it has become obvious Ben can't recruit or develop good shooters?" Because they are lousy shooters this year doesn't mean they will be 2 years from now. It's on Ben that he recruited some guys who don't shoot well so far, but it's a little early to say he can't recruit or develop shooters.

100% you can't teach all kids to shoot. I'm talking about guys like Carrington, Cooper, Thompson, Garcia, Battle, Henley, Betts, Ihnen etc Guys that have some idea and form about shooting.
Those guys you can teach and climb them to all different levels but ALL can be way more consistent than they are now. For that group it is 100% mental.
Keep in mind they get to work with these guys all summer and all fall. It's not like high school where you get 2 weeks in the summer and 18 weeks in a season with two games a week.
No, some kids can't do it for sure no matter who teaches them.
The a little early part...have you watched us shoot free throws as a team? Some excellent clues there.
And the job would be easier if you recruited guys with the right mindset. Guys with a shooters mentality. I don't follow Purdue closely but they got gunners every year. We have had in our history
but who was the last Voshon, Lawrence Westbrook?
No!!!! Mutaf was a gunner...so ticked he didn't get minutes

 

[Otis]

Shooting in the game is way different than shooting FTs.

When you are in the action and playing as the game comes to you your shot is pure and the body relies on muscle memory as you release the ball.

When you’re shooting a FT you’re on an island and you have time to set your rhythm do your routine and think. I hated it. Lots of pressure, like an eight foot putt. You stand over it and think too much. At one point I told my kids struggling with FTs to throw the ball in front of them so it spins back to them like a pass and just shoot a jump shot. Most of the kids who struggled had improvement because they stopped thinking and went back to their muscle memory.

Don’t like the feel, change it.

 

[Ewert86PC]

It

It means the game has not yet slowed down for our freshmen.

Then it means the game has not slowed down for any of the players with 2 or more turnovers in the box score. We seem to be averaging 10+ turnovers per game.

 

[Dakota2]

You're experience with shooters is different than mine is. You could take the best coaches in the world and the best sports psychologists, and you couldn't make Jordan Murphy a good outside shooter. That's not to say coaches can't help if they show confidence in their players and give them enough shooting repetitions, etc. But some players inherently have more touch and shooting skills than others. Carrington is a good example of a guy with excellent shooting touch, but he hasn't shown it, possibly because of confidence issues when he got on a bigger stage. I think eventually he'll show he's a good shooter. But shooting is NOT 100% confidence.

And to say "it has become obvious Ben can't recruit or develop good shooters?" Because they are lousy shooters this year doesn't mean they will be 2 years from now. It's on Ben that he recruited some guys who don't shoot well so far, but it's a little early to say he can't recruit or develop shooters.

You recruit shooters and develop defenders. Not everyone can shoot and if they can't in high school they won't in college.

Defense can be taught to any good athlete who is willing to work and lay his guts on the court.

If Ben has showed a weakness this season it is not development of shooters (free throws being the exception). His coaching weakness is not getting the effort required to play strong defense.

 

[Dakota2]

100% you can't teach all kids to shoot. I'm talking about guys like Carrington, Cooper, Thompson, Garcia, Battle, Henley, Betts, Ihnen etc Guys that have some idea and form about shooting.
Those guys you can teach and climb them to all different levels but ALL can be way more consistent than they are now. For that group it is 100% mental.
Keep in mind they get to work with these guys all summer and all fall. It's not like high school where you get 2 weeks in the summer and 18 weeks in a season with two games a week.
No, some kids can't do it for sure no matter who teaches them.
The a little early part...have you watched us shoot free throws as a team? Some excellent clues there.
And the job would be easier if you recruited guys with the right mindset. Guys with a shooters mentality. I don't follow Purdue closely but they got gunners every year. We have had in our history
but who was the last Voshon, Lawrence Westbrook?
No!!!! Mutaf was a gunner...so ticked he didn't get minutes

You cannot compare teaching and improving free throw form with scoring at game speed from the floor. No relationship.

On free throws you are standing still, you can set your feet, you can face the basket perfectly, you can take a deep breath and relax your muscles, you can remember to use your lower body. You have no defender.

A shooter is in motion, sometimes not squared up. He might have to lean to avoid a hand. His body is usually in motion, forward or lateral. Under duress, he must have a soft touch. It's all coachable in grade school, junior high, or by Dad in the driveway. You either have it by late high school or you don't.

Think about Jedd Fisch, or some other fool Brewster brought in, "coaching" Adam Weber on a new throwing motion. Idiotic.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

You cannot compare teaching and improving free throw form with scoring at game speed from the floor. No relationship.

On free throws you are standing still, you can set your feet, you can face the basket perfectly, you can take a deep breath and relax your muscles, you can remember to use your lower body. You have no defender.

A shooter is in motion, sometimes not squared up. He might have to lean to avoid a hand. His body is usually in motion, forward or lateral. Under duress, he must have a soft touch. It's all coachable in grade school, junior high, or by Dad in the driveway. You either have it by late high school or you don't.

Think about Jedd Fisch, or some other fool Brewster brought in, "coaching" Adam Weber on a new throwing motion. Idiotic.

Kill shot. With a tennis ball. SMH

 

[60's Guy]

You cannot compare teaching and improving free throw form with scoring at game speed from the floor. No relationship.

On free throws you are standing still, you can set your feet, you can face the basket perfectly, you can take a deep breath and relax your muscles, you can remember to use your lower body. You have no defender.

A shooter is in motion, sometimes not squared up. He might have to lean to avoid a hand. His body is usually in motion, forward or lateral. Under duress, he must have a soft touch. It's all coachable in grade school, junior high, or by Dad in the driveway. You either have it by late high school or you don't.

Think about Jedd Fisch, or some other fool Brewster brought in, "coaching" Adam Weber on a new throwing motion. Idiotic.

Give up. You have no idea. You are saying it is typical for someone like Cooper to at one time be shooting 3’s at a higher % than free throws?
We already can’t shoot and you want guys to shoot leaners, and encourage shot selection not squared up. Great formula to improve %
Brilliant!!!
You do realize the easiest shot in basketball is the free throw. Nobody is distracting you or defending you.

At one point we were the very worst team in the entire country for free throw percentage.
If you can’t make a free throw it is going to be hard to be a consistent game shooter. Guys who score double figures one night and go scoreless the next are of very little value more than half the games.
Free throws are a window to what - if anything - is being taught.
We’ll let each kid bring his dad to practice and coach shooting - probably your best idea.

 

[Formerswish]

100% you can't teach all kids to shoot. I'm talking about guys like Carrington, Cooper, Thompson, Garcia, Battle, Henley, Betts, Ihnen etc Guys that have some idea and form about shooting.
Those guys you can teach and climb them to all different levels but ALL can be way more consistent than they are now. For that group it is 100% mental.
Keep in mind they get to work with these guys all summer and all fall. It's not like high school where you get 2 weeks in the summer and 18 weeks in a season with two games a week.
No, some kids can't do it for sure no matter who teaches them.
The a little early part...have you watched us shoot free throws as a team? Some excellent clues there.
And the job would be easier if you recruited guys with the right mindset. Guys with a shooters mentality. I don't follow Purdue closely but they got gunners every year. We have had in our history
but who was the last Voshon, Lawrence Westbrook?
No!!!! Mutaf was a gunner...so ticked he didn't get minutes

I understand what you're saying. You can certainly make a case for helping players over time to improve their shooting/free throws. I would also say that it's across the board that freshmen shoot more poorly generally in their first year. There is a huge need for improvement here. In the case of Thompson's shooting this year, Cooper's free throw shooting (which has never been great but is worse this year), and Battle's shooting? There are times when everything seems OK in practice, the coach expresses confidence in the player, there is sufficient time spent on shooting/free throws, and in the games it's pretty awful. Look at the players everywhere-NBA, college, wherever, who shoot 38% from 3 one year and 26% the next. What happened? Coach's fault?

My point is that at times the coach does everything necessary to bring success to the shooting of their players, and it doesn't work. I don't have proof of that with Johnson, but if the freshmen shoot better next year (very likely based on the low bar they've set), if Carrington and Christie show that they can shoot it well (Christie is an unknown here but has a reputation as a shooter), and Battle shoots more like he did last year, the coach will look a lot better. Will all of these happen? Nobody knows. But I agree 100% that they need more shooters. It's just that it's easy to blame the coach for shooting woes, and while the coach may have some part in that, it's a smaller part than most people think.

 

[Dakota2]

Give up. You have no idea. You are saying it is typical for someone like Cooper to at one time be shooting 3’s at a higher % than free throws?
We already can’t shoot and you want guys to shoot leaners, and encourage shot selection not squared up. Great formula to improve %
Brilliant!!!
You do realize the easiest shot in basketball is the free throw. Nobody is distracting you or defending you.

At one point we were the very worst team in the entire country for free throw percentage.
If you can’t make a free throw it is going to be hard to be a consistent game shooter. Guys who score double figures one night and go scoreless the next are of very little value more than half the games.
Free throws are a window to what - if anything - is being taught.
We’ll let each kid bring his dad to practice and coach shooting - probably your best idea.

I'm not telling anyone to shoot a leaner or not square up when wide open, dummy. Defense dictates whether you can square up or not. Good shooters score against the defense, not just when they are locked in the gym alone.

 

[60's Guy]

I understand what you're saying. You can certainly make a case for helping players over time to improve their shooting/free throws. I would also say that it's across the board that freshmen shoot more poorly generally in their first year. There is a huge need for improvement here. In the case of Thompson's shooting this year, Cooper's free throw shooting (which has never been great but is worse this year), and Battle's shooting? There are times when everything seems OK in practice, the coach expresses confidence in the player, there is sufficient time spent on shooting/free throws, and in the games it's pretty awful. Look at the players everywhere-NBA, college, wherever, who shoot 38% from 3 one year and 26% the next. What happened? Coach's fault?

My point is that at times the coach does everything necessary to bring success to the shooting of their players, and it doesn't work. I don't have proof of that with Johnson, but if the freshmen shoot better next year (very likely based on the low bar they've set), if Carrington and Christie show that they can shoot it well (Christie is an unknown here but has a reputation as a shooter), and Battle shoots more like he did last year, the coach will look a lot better. Will all of these happen? Nobody knows. But I agree 100% that they need more shooters. It's just that it's easy to blame the coach for shooting woes, and while the coach may have some part in that, it's a smaller part than most people think.

I agree with much of what you say, just not the conclusions. As a coach, if I am not responsible for how my team shoots, who is? Each each player is accountable for his contributions to the team but if I have a player who tries hard, puts the time in, wants to do well but is not getting any results...whose fault is that? It is mine as the coach...in this case #! I recruited him...starts there. I made promises to him. If he is doing his part which the majority of kids do and they are not having success that's on me. I gotta find the keys to unlocking him...unless somebody is hurt...it is overwhelming almost always mental from any number of directions. My girlfriend said, my dad said, my friend said, asst coach Big Lou said...somebody got this guy off the path you worked on with him, NOW, that's my experience...I'd say the majority of coaches ignore shooting...free throws everybody...(time to talk with an asst or the managers with no involvement---kids talking while they are shooting-no focus etc etc Three point shooting drill....same thing...you time it, you record shots but everybody is left to figure shooting out for themselves...that's normal. Not how you make a difference imo.
It's a lotta time...a lotta one on one conversations and you and the player with one on one shooting sessions. Again, can't teach everybody to shoot at the high school level...some people just can't. Every year we'd shoot free throws well as a team...like defense...that is teachable to 90% of anybody interested. Then you got one or two kids who you spend the time with and their results were always consistent seasons of 20 plus averages. Had a kid who averaged 10 the year before for the previous coach. Averaged 30 plus ppg for me...double teamed every game, under 6 feet tall not especially quick. Willing to shoot 3's and attack the rim. Know how hard that is? ....to be that consistent? Score 10 once you need 50 the next game to stay at 30....20 need 40. etc It is all mental....and a lotta work!!
And before we go down the path of that's not team basketball...yes it is if you only got one or two kids who can play and the team wants to win. Ben can have 13 kids who can play and share the ball and not let it get sticky in any one place. He gets to recruit the pieces.