Time to ditch the RPO!

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Otis

Otis

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I hate it!

We have had good lines and we do the read option thing which delays the RBin the backfield. Amazing what Mo accomplished giving the D extra time to react. I believe we’d be better with the QB under center.

Also, ditch the father-may-I waste of the clock thing. Vary your pacing to throw the D off rhythm. I think we look better when we hurry up.

Firing and hiring OCs is not going to work if PJ makes them use the RPO. We need different looks! The book is out in how to stop us and it’s a best seller in the B1G!
 


Otis said:
I hate it!

We have had good lines and we do the read option thing which delays the RBin the backfield. Amazing what Mo accomplished giving the D extra time to react. I believe we’d be better with the QB under center.

Also, ditch the father-may-I waste of the clock thing. Vary your pacing to throw the D off rhythm. I think we look better when we hurry up.

Firing and hiring OCs is not going to work if PJ makes them use the RPO. We need different looks! The book is out in how to stop us and it’s a best seller in the B1G!
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Our opponents are terrible if it took 4 years to figure out our offense. Need Taylor and Evans healthy, an accurate QB and a healthy defense and we will be fine.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Our opponents are terrible if it took 4 years to figure out our offense. Need Taylor and Evans healthy, an accurate QB and a healthy defense and we will be fine.
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You could have ran the Maryland I in 2019 with Johnson and Bateman split out and been successful! It was mostly just slants against one on one coverage.

This is why the RPO has been shit for the majority of the time since when passing comes into play. AK doesn’t have two NFL receivers to throw to.

It would be nice to see an effort to change the offense. Same freaking sets and same play calls repeatedly will progressively get poorer results against good coaches.

Coaches who have PJ’s number have it figured out.
 

Otis said:
You could have ran the Maryland I in 2019 with Johnson and Bateman split out and been successful!
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False.
If you ran Maryland I with two splits you would have zero tight ends. Would really make Maryland I awkward to run.
Otis said:
It was mostly just slants against one on one coverage.

This is why the RPO has been shit for the majority of the time since when passing comes into play. AK doesn’t have two NFL receivers to throw to.

It would be nice to see an effort to change the offense. Same freaking sets and same play calls repeatedly will progressively get poorer results against good coaches.

Coaches who have PJ’s number have it figured out.
Click to expand...
 


Otis said:
You could have ran the Maryland I in 2019 with Johnson and Bateman split out and been successful! It was mostly just slants against one on one coverage.

This is why the RPO has been shit for the majority of the time since when passing comes into play. AK doesn’t have two NFL receivers to throw to.

It would be nice to see an effort to change the offense. Same freaking sets and same play calls repeatedly will progressively get poorer results against good coaches.

Coaches who have PJ’s number have it figured out.
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Exactly right here - just about any offense can be successful with the right personnel and execution. Plenty of teams have succeeded with an RPO based offense.
 

I’m not sophisticated enough in offensive schemes to say RPO is fully bunk but egad man it is slow and boring and predictable and MN doesn’t have the athletes to always “let things develop” and then make reads. Feels like it leads to a lot of 3-5 yard losses or zero gains when running.

Then teams that just smash football with the Weismans and the Mockobees and the Dakota schools of the world just eat us up.

I’d be all for a change of philosophy on offense.
 

The problem with RPO for us has been that it seems the QB doesn't actually have the option to run. 99% of the time they hand the ball to the running back. Not sure if it's because AK was banged up or fear of not having a good backup qb. The RPO worked with some success with Leidner.
 

I think a compromise would be to open it up a bit from the current base. Try different wrinkles. That and different pacing.

What I'd really like to see is an open and honest assessment of the personnel already here and tweaking the offense to help them succeed.
 



Word said:
The problem with RPO for us has been that it seems the QB doesn't actually have the option to run. 99% of the time they hand the ball to the running back. Not sure if it's because AK was banged up or fear of not having a good backup qb. The RPO worked with some success with Leidner.
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An RPO doesn't necessarily need a mobile QB to be effective. Sure it always is a nice wrinkle to have, but the idea is that the threat of a handoff should freeze the defenders. Nick Foles shredded the Vikings on RPOs in the NFC championship game and he's not much of a running threat.
 

Word said:
The problem with RPO for us has been that it seems the QB doesn't actually have the option to run. 99% of the time they hand the ball to the running back. Not sure if it's because AK was banged up or fear of not having a good backup qb. The RPO worked with some success with Leidner.
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No it was really bad with Leidner due to how bad (molasses) he was as a runner. You want to run RPO get a Streveler or a Gray (thought AK may be able to run but was wrong).
 

What percentage of time did Gophers actually use RPO? Offense doesn't feel anything like 2019.

Isn't the QB pulling the ball a zone read, not a RPO? I thought RPO was pass or give to RB...not pass or give to RB or QB keep. Could be wrong.
 

Meh, I think you find out who truly is a good rb and who isn’t. The ones with the best combination of vision, patience, power, and speed do well and the others sit.
 



SamSquatch said:
No it was really bad with Leidner due to how bad (molasses) he was as a runner. You want to run RPO get a Streveler or a Gray (thought AK may be able to run but was wrong).
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Leidner had some very nice runs, especially earlier in his career before his foot issue. I also hate to break it to you, but Gray wasn't really that fast either (Leidner actually had a better shuttle time and both had bad 40-yard dash times). Streveler was legit fast though.
 

Word said:
The problem with RPO for us has been that it seems the QB doesn't actually have the option to run. 99% of the time they hand the ball to the running back. Not sure if it's because AK was banged up or fear of not having a good backup qb. The RPO worked with some success with Leidner.
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I think that's a key. They don't have to be plays designed specifcially for the QB to run, but there are times when the QB should read, react, and decide to run when the opportunity presents itself as the best option.

Watching Leidner run was akin to watching a baby elephant run at times, but he was a big guy and could for the most part handle the contact.
 

50PoundHead said:
I think that's a key. They don't have to be plays designed specifcially for the QB to run, but there are times when the QB should read, react, and decide to run when the opportunity presents itself as the best option.

Watching Leidner run was akin to watching a baby elephant run at times, but he was a big guy and could for the most part handle the contact.
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If nothing else, just run once out of every 4 or 5 times to keep the defense honest.
 

once again, it all depends on Fleck being willing to change.

you can bring in a new OC every year and it doesn't make any difference if Fleck is not willing to change.

Fleck's team - Fleck's system.

I supposed if the AD told him - change your approach or you're fired - that might have an impact.

But if Coyle tried that, he would die of fright before he could get the words out.
 

SamSquatch said:
No it was really bad with Leidner due to how bad (molasses) he was as a runner. You want to run RPO get a Streveler or a Gray (thought AK may be able to run but was wrong).
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You do realize zone read and RPO (run pass option) are two different things.

RPO - ride the running back, generally speaking first choice is to give to him. If that isn't there then you throw to the wide receiver. WR is usually running a slant or another quick hitter. The QB's running ability has very little do do with the success of the play.

Without knowing 100% what the scheme is because I am not in the offensive meetings I would be willing to bet when the offense is looking over at the sidelines it is because the RPO is called and presnap the coaches make a decision if it is a defined run or pass. This can be made depending on how the defense is lined up.

You also can call a post snap RPO the QB will focus on the read player... generally a strong safety or LB depending on the line up. If he cheats up for run support, throw it. If he stays back in pass coverage, hand off.
 

pharmacygopher said:
What percentage of time did Gophers actually use RPO? Offense doesn't feel anything like 2019.

Isn't the QB pulling the ball a zone read, not a RPO? I thought RPO was pass or give to RB...not pass or give to RB or QB keep. Could be wrong.
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We did not run the RPO very often last year. We ran a bit more read option, but I don't believe AK was given the green light to really make that an option.

IMO, we actually have been trying to do too much, too many wrinkles.
 

SamSquatch said:
No it was really bad with Leidner due to how bad (molasses) he was as a runner. You want to run RPO get a Streveler or a Gray (thought AK may be able to run but was wrong).
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He was effective in the redzone
 

Word said:
The problem with RPO for us has been that it seems the QB doesn't actually have the option to run. 99% of the time they hand the ball to the running back. Not sure if it's because AK was banged up or fear of not having a good backup qb. The RPO worked with some success with Leidner.
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That's the basic premise of the RPO, it's a pass or handoff. Also, Gophs didn't actually run it much this year so not getting the OP. AK was under center a lot.
 

MNfootballfan said:
You do realize zone read and RPO (run pass option) are two different things.

RPO - ride the running back, generally speaking first choice is to give to him. If that isn't there then you throw to the wide receiver. WR is usually running a slant or another quick hitter. The QB's running ability has very little do do with the success of the play.

Without knowing 100% what the scheme is because I am not in the offensive meetings I would be willing to bet when the offense is looking over at the sidelines it is because the RPO is called and presnap the coaches make a decision if it is a defined run or pass. This can be made depending on how the defense is lined up.

You also can call a post snap RPO the QB will focus on the read player... generally a strong safety or LB depending on the line up. If he cheats up for run support, throw it. If he stays back in pass coverage, hand off.
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Yeah, when run with pre snap motion, the RPO is very effective. Gophs didn't really run true RPO plays very often in 2023. Wish they had run them a lot more.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Exactly right here - just about any offense can be successful with the right personnel and execution. Plenty of teams have succeeded with an RPO based offense.
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The most important feature of a balanced offense is that the defense does not know on what downs you will pass. They can never get comfortable over-playing one or the other.

Fleck will throw on first down a bit in the first quarter but not much after that. We rarely throw on second down even if it is 2nd and one. So too often we are third and long and the defense has the advantage.
 

MNfootballfan said:
You do realize zone read and RPO (run pass option) are two different things.

RPO - ride the running back, generally speaking first choice is to give to him. If that isn't there then you throw to the wide receiver. WR is usually running a slant or another quick hitter. The QB's running ability has very little do do with the success of the play.

Without knowing 100% what the scheme is because I am not in the offensive meetings I would be willing to bet when the offense is looking over at the sidelines it is because the RPO is called and presnap the coaches make a decision if it is a defined run or pass. This can be made depending on how the defense is lined up.

You also can call a post snap RPO the QB will focus on the read player... generally a strong safety or LB depending on the line up. If he cheats up for run support, throw it. If he stays back in pass coverage, hand off.
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No I don’t know offenses well which is what I stated. I am an average high school level player. Most posters here know way less than they want to admit.

But I can watch the games and see how slow and incompetent things are. Your offensive theory is great, I’m all in. Except that the Gophs have not had the players at any position to pull this off. So change it up and give me some hope man.
 

Word said:
Leidner had some very nice runs, especially earlier in his career before his foot issue. I also hate to break it to you, but Gray wasn't really that fast either (Leidner actually had a better shuttle time and both had bad 40-yard dash times). Streveler was legit fast though.
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lol what? Gray was a legit NFL talent on athleticism alone. Leidner was like watching your dad do a vertical jump. Get out of here with lumping these players together.
 


What's frustrating is that even with all the horses Nick Saban has at Alabama, he realized that the 3 yards and cloud of dust, Tresselball was not working anymore. He adapted, maybe PJ needs to spend some time at Saban Rehab.
 

Our RPO requires (1) WRs who can win off the line of scrimmage and get separation; and (2) a QB who can accurately throw over the middle. We didn’t have either this year so we rarely ran it.

But if we can’t get that fixed, then we need to rethink the offense because the RPO slant serves as the foundation for everything Fleck wants to do (seemingly).
 

RPO is another style of triple option - the QB can keep, give to the RB, or pass. At least 2 things must be a threat or it's slow and easy to figure out.

The Gophers only scared teams doing one of those things, and even that wasn't too scary. The longest Gopher running play all season was 25 yards (!!), which tells you our running backs aren't really that talented in the breakaway open field.

A team doesn't have to be great at all 3 things but it needs the QB to be either a run threat or able to consistently make well timed throws to the open receiver like Tanner Morgan excelled at in 2019.
 
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We barely ran it this year. It was a fantastic play in 2019. I think it’s probably aged fine.
 

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