This is what success breeds

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Some Day...Maybe

Some Day...Maybe

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Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
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I really don't think it's the QB. Had a great first half.
 

Was the early turnover and the defense today

Offense played okay
 

It's not stupid to want to change the coaching staff when the same issues that were apparent 7 years ago still are there today. Especially when losses happen for the same reason year after year. Fleck hit his ceiling in 2019 and it's just been a painful decline ever since. No OC is going to develop under the shitty offense/game plan Fleck envisions
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
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This is the problem. An army of fans happy to just be better than 50 years of crap results. Don’t look to the future and make the hard decisions necessary to get where you want to be. Keep looking backwards and feel happy about where you are now.
 


SuperMeat said:
It's not stupid to want to change the coaching staff when the same issues that were apparent 7 years ago still are there today. Especially when losses happen for the same reason year after year. Fleck hit his ceiling in 2019 and it's just been a painful decline ever since. No OC is going to develop under the shitty offense/game plan Fleck envisions
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Yes such a painful decline winning 9 games the last two years…
 

Here is my issue with it all: Fleck keeps telling everyone to "change your best", yet he doesn't even take his own advice. He continues to fail in close situations, in games that should be easily winnable. He consistently loses by playing not to lose, how ironic! You would think that, after seven freaking years, he might just try a different strategy. But no, he keeps the status quo so that he can regurgitage the exact same talking points in the post-game press conference over and over again all while cashing in a massive paycheck. He is the second most tenured head coach in the Big Ten, but he sure as hell doesn't coach like it.

Furthermore, he has proven that that he is NOT a good game manager. His recruiting is mediocre at best. And we have not witnessed tangible improvement with our team as the season wears on, especially with AK. We have seen what AK is capable of (see wisconsin 2022). I blame that on the coaching staff, and especially on PJ Fleck.

Dear Coach Fleck, it's time to change your best or hit the road!
 

The Coach's program progression graph really did not give fans a reason to believe this would be a rebuild if not overhaul year.

Really thought it would be a reload season, at least in terms of outcomes.

We are inconsistent at best in a number of areas. If it's both coaching and execution, then it's on the team as a whole although the Billds certainly focus on single players or groups to express our challenges.

Now that the divisions are probably gone for good, there's some legitimate disappointment especially for the long haulers who thought post-Brewster football would reach better heights. The fact is that it has been better, but not sustained with this year being what may be a big drop.

The Billds have only been watching the Gophers for 26 years, but can see the individual season patterns. Certainly have been here before. Really now just get to a bowl and keep The Axe in the case with Floyd. That's what this team is shooting for now.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
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He's the 15th highest paid HC in college football.
 




Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
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U R a dummy.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
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Well said. Those calling for a new head coach now are being unrealistic and ignoring history. Hopefully a step back this year will cause Fleck to really take a look at things and make some changes.

You don't make a head coaching change after one down year, if it becomes 2 then you start having those conversations....
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.
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1. Ciarrocca left MN twice - he apparently doesn't want to be here.
2. Morgan is out of eligibility. are you saying that MN is unable to recruit or develop a QB who can be equal to or better than Tanner Morgan?

(just to stir the pot, Zach Annexstad has thrown for 1,820 yds with 16 TD this year on 70.1%.)
 



MNVCGUY said:
According to this list he is 28th.

2023
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I guess it depends on what list you look at. There's a few things that seem inaccurate on this list. It has Tucker listed. Whitingham's salary also looks incorrect.
 

We really haven't had much success. Along with Illinois, we are the only school in the West not to go to the Big Ten Championship game. We have been a middle of the road team in an awful divsion - there hasn't been a really good West team for many years. Yes, we've beaten beaten WI, but that's more about WI regressing from where they had been than the Gophers rising to where they were. No reasonable school would call that success in a divsion like the West.

I don't want PJ to be fired despite having always found his schtick nauseating. Starting over would set the program back at a difficult time with the changes coming next year. However, PJ has made recruiting any kind of QB more difficult. Knowing a high-level QB recruit with multiple P5 offers, his dad and him won't even consider the U because they think it is a place QBs go to die. There is no evidence of development, or the opportunity to grow. if PJ doesn't shift some things a firing will happen in the future as he no longer will benefit from playing in the West. I hope he makes some changes and we see some real success in the future - although don't know how that will be measured with the new Big Ten - hopefully 2-4 divisions with the opportunity to win somethign each year.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Success breeds expectations. This is what’s happening with Fleck. He’s had success here (based on the last half century of Gopher football).

He’s having a down year this year due to his QB and OC. You’d be really stupid to want a new football coach at Minnesota right now. With Ciarocca and Morgan this team is 8-1 or 7-2 right now. Fleck has earned the ability to adjust and learn. He really hasn’t had a down year here, by MN standards, since his first year here.

He needs to develop an OC, or find one. Only coach I can think of that may be better at MN would be the guy at Washington, but why would he come here? And the guy from Kansas.

Beat Purdue and WI and win a bowl game and it’s 8-5. A good year for MN historically. Throw in the Pig and Axe and it’s a pretty good year historically. Go 5-7 and it’s 1 down year for Fleck. 6-7, down year. 7-6, meh. 7-6 with Axe and Pig, not bad.
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My expectations at the beginning of the season were between 5-7 to 8-4.

Replacing your OC, your long term QB, and arguably the best center in CFB is difficult. Now add Michigan, OSU, and North Carolina on the schedule.

I don't want to kick any dead horses here on the play thus far. I just hope that Fleck is willing to make uncomfortable decisions. He has before so I guess we'll see how the rest of the season plays out.
 

going back to the OP -

in some ways, for a program like MN, having a little success is even more frustrating when or if that success is not sustained.

because then that success begins to look like a mirage. Hey, the 11-win season was fun. winning bowl games is fun.

but here's the thing about a little success - it makes people start to dream about more success. it makes some people start to believe.

and there are few things more frustrating then when you start to believe - you start to hope - and you see that hope begin to fade away.

I think that is why we're seeing a lot of extreme reactions on the board. because some of us are struggling to hold onto that hope, and we are afraid that we are watching it start to slip away.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Well said. Those calling for a new head coach now are being unrealistic and ignoring history. Hopefully a step back this year will cause Fleck to really take a look at things and make some changes.

You don't make a head coaching change after one down year, if it becomes 2 then you start having those conversations....
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It’s not a down year. This team had seven out of nine games won up to this point. Coaches changed two wins to the loss column.
 

Dakota2 said:
It’s not a down year. This team had seven out of nine games won up to this point. Coaches changed two wins to the loss column.
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It isn't all on the coaches......players make the plays and we win those games. Not sure why some are so determined to put it all on the coaches.
 


Dakota2 said:
It’s not a down year. This team had seven out of nine games won up to this point. Coaches changed two wins to the loss column.
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They were picked to win 7 games, they’ve been without their best lb most of the year, the rb room is decimated. Why are we acting like this year has been a disastrous underperformance?
 

MNVCGUY said:
It isn't all on the coaches......players make the plays and we win those games. Not sure why some are so determined to put it all on the coaches.
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Because the coaching decisions are what caused the games to be close, which is why a few missed plays changed the outcome.
 

MNVCGUY said:
It isn't all on the coaches......players make the plays and we win those games. Not sure why some are so determined to put it all on the coaches.
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Players are … young, amateurs, learning…. Coaches are highly paid professionals. If player mistakes and coaching mistakes both contribute to a victory being turned into a loss late, I’m going to focus on coaches, not athletes. Others may see it differently.
 

Bottom line: results not meeting expectations suck.

I don't blame people for being upset. I expect better from this program on the field.

If you want to quiet the critics, then just win.
 

btowngopher said:
They were picked to win 7 games, they’ve been without their best lb most of the year, the rb room is decimated. Why are we acting like this year has been a disastrous underperformance?
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Doesn’t matter where someone picked us. Team has played nine games. They played well enough to win seven. Two of those they had won late in the game but inexplicably lost in the final minutes.

If you lose seniors and have injuries and play well enough to win five of your first nine games, that’s playing as expected. If you have seven of nine won but choke away two of the wins it bears discussion.
 

Dakota2 said:
Doesn’t matter where someone picked us. Team has played nine games. They played well enough to win seven. Two of those they had won late in the game but inexplicably lost in the final minutes.

If you lose seniors and have injuries and play well enough to win five of your first nine games, that’s playing as expected. If you have seven of nine won but choke away two of the wins it bears discussion.
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You act like the five wins we do have were a cake walk. They played well enough to win 7, ok, they also played bad enough to win 3 but pulled out the Iowa and Nebraska games.
 

MisterGopher said:
Because the coaching decisions are what caused the games to be close, which is why a few missed plays changed the outcome.
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What a load of BS. We were up 21 points in the 4th quarter against Northwestern before things fell apart. I am not going to go back and rewatch that game but I guarantee there were mistakes made by the players on the field that contributed to Northwestern being able to make that comeback.

And in the Illinois game....every prediction leading up to the game was calling for a really tight even game. And it was a game where we were in position to win in the 4th and if Athan hits the TE we do win the game.

I am in no way shape or form saying the coaches don't share in the blame for those two losses but those trying to hold the players blameless and put it all on the coaches are being foolish.

I get why it is easier to go after the coaches but to only blame them is not right. In the end it is the players that have to make the plays....against Iowa and Nebraska they got it done, against Northwestern and Illinois they didn't.

I guarantee that within the team they get that the credit for a win or blame for a loss goes to both the players and the coaches. Not sure why some fans have such a hard time with that concept.
 

PJ is experiencing growth for the first time since 2018!

Let's hope next season is more like 2019!!!
 

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