The Concept of Time

[Nomellini]

In the first half of yesterday's game, a Gopher ball-carrier was dragged out of bounds and then thrown down. No flag was thrown. A GH poster implied after the game that the non-call didn't really matter because the drive fizzled anyway. I would say that we can't know how the drive would have proceeded. After the 15-yard walk-off, the next play would have taken place at a different point in time. We can't know what the next play call would have been or how the 22 players would have interacted as it unfolded. In short, if the penalty is called, the game is sent spinning on a different trajectory. I apologize in advance if all of this sounds pedantic. It's just that I appreciate how this idea has saved me from lots of needless lamenting over "what ifs" in football, baseball and basketball.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Butterfly effect, sure.

The retort is good teams find a way to overcome adverse calls and non-calls or the calls even out. Personally I just wish for more consistency from the officials. Fair to call a game tight or loose but be consistent.

 

[BilldGopher]

Certainly inconsistent is the word I would use for yesterday.

Agree though in the end a poor excuse.

 

[Nomellini]

Butterfly effect, sure.

The retort is good teams find a way to overcome adverse calls and non-calls or the calls even out. Personally I just wish for more consistency from the officials. Fair to call a game tight or loose but be consistent.

I agree, but the same concept is often in play even when the officials are not involved. For example, in "baseball" (if the mention of the word diminishes your interest, thanks for sticking with me), suppose threre is a guy on 1st with one out. He tries to steal 2nd but is thrown out. The next two guys hit singles so it's 1st and 3rd with two outs. The next guy makes an out so the announcer is apt to say "that stolen base try cost the Twins at least one run." Not necessarily. The 30 seconds that elapsed during that failed attempt placed the next pitch at a different point in time so, again, the game's path is different.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I agree, but the same concept is often in play even when the officials are not involved. For example, in "baseball" (if the mention of the word diminishes your interest, thanks for sticking with me), suppose threre is a guy on 1st with one out. He tries to steal 2nd but is thrown out. The next two guys hit singles so it's 1st and 3rd with two outs. The next guy makes an out so the announcer is apt to say "that stolen base try cost the Twins at least one run." Not necessarily. The 30 seconds that elapsed during that failed attempt placed the next pitch at a different point in time so, again, the game's path is different.

I love baseball, near and dear to my heart.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained in your example. Hindsight 20/20.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Had Illinois not tried the end around pass and then taken the sack it’s likely 17 or 21 zero. Coaches make mistakes just like players and officials. It part of sports and competition.

 

[Nomellini]

I love baseball, near and dear to my heart.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained in your example. Hindsight 20/20.

I, too, love baseball and have done so since I was a boy in the 1950s. The version that is played today can be off-putting but I am always ready to go out to the ballpark when spring comes along. I guess I'm in for the duration, as with the Gophers.

 

[Word]

I would say this happens in hockey more than any other sport due to power play goals.

 

[Some guy]

Had Illinois not tried the end around pass and then taken the sack it’s likely 17 or 21 zero. Coaches make mistakes just like players and officials. It part of sports and competition.

For sure but it doesn’t make it less true.


Yesterday 4 holding penalties. All bad calls IMO

3 against gophers 1 against Illinois
Missed a pass interference against Illinois in first half


Officials were bad yesterday. Both ways. Probably more calls went against gophers than against Illinois. Of 5 bad calls I noticed 4 went Illinois’ way.


not an excuse… the team didn’t show up. But doesn’t make them Good calls

 

[MaxyJR1]

For sure but it doesn’t make it less true.


Yesterday 4 holding penalties. All bad calls IMO

3 against gophers 1 against Illinois
Missed a pass interference against Illinois in first half


Officials were bad yesterday. Both ways. Probably more calls went against gophers than against Illinois. Of 5 bad calls I noticed 4 went Illinois’ way.


not an excuse… the team didn’t show up. But doesn’t make them Good calls

I agree that calls can really change a drive and flow of the game for any offense.

 

[Some guy]

I agree that calls can really change a drive and flow of the game for any offense.

And then everything can change from there. That’s why football has so many unexpected outcomes and upsets

momentum, matchups, funny shaped ball, etc

 

[PMWinSTP]

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
And when I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells

 

[Ope3]

I agree, but the same concept is often in play even when the officials are not involved. For example, in "baseball" (if the mention of the word diminishes your interest, thanks for sticking with me), suppose threre is a guy on 1st with one out. He tries to steal 2nd but is thrown out. The next two guys hit singles so it's 1st and 3rd with two outs. The next guy makes an out so the announcer is apt to say "that stolen base try cost the Twins at least one run." Not necessarily. The 30 seconds that elapsed during that failed attempt placed the next pitch at a different point in time so, again, the game's path is different.

From your example aside from the 30 seconds several other things would have been different thus not ensuring a run would have been produced:

- Fielders could have been positioned differently
- Pitcher would have been going from the wind up, impacting effectiveness
- Runner could have gotten picked off 2nd anyway
- Runner could have been gunned down going 1st to 3rd or trying to score

On and on it can go...

 

[BilldGopher]

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
And when I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells

'Nuff said...

 

[GringaGopher]

In the first half of yesterday's game, a Gopher ball-carrier was dragged out of bounds and then thrown down. No flag was thrown. A GH poster implied after the game that the non-call didn't really matter because the drive fizzled anyway. I would say that we can't know how the drive would have proceeded. After the 15-yard walk-off, the next play would have taken place at a different point in time. We can't know what the next play call would have been or how the 22 players would have interacted as it unfolded. In short, if the penalty is called, the game is sent spinning on a different trajectory. I apologize in advance if all of this sounds pedantic. It's just that I appreciate how this idea has saved me from lots of needless lamenting over "what ifs" in football, baseball and basketball.

The play happened right in front of our seats. Not only was it a late hit but the ref actually reached for his flag but then decided not to throw it. You can imagine there was a bit of screaming from the Gopher fans. He was clearly out when the IL defender threw him- it was not even close.....

 

[Unregistered User]

From your example aside from the 30 seconds several other things would have been different thus not ensuring a run would have been produced:

- Fielders could have been positioned differently
- Pitcher would have been going from the wind up, impacting effectiveness
- Runner could have gotten picked off 2nd anyway
- Runner could have been gunned down going 1st to 3rd or trying to score

On and on it can go...

Tacking on to this, the biggest change is the pitch sequence depending runners on base, situation, etc. If the runner on first does not attempt the steal, but is a threat, that changes everything from number of breaking balls to fastballs, whether or not the batter is a fastball hitter, but you have to nibble with fastballs to have a shot at throwing out the runner on first at a later attempt at a SB. etc. etc. etc.

This is similar to the football conversation, (totally fictitious game, but you get the point) when people talk about "if you take the 3 points there, then it's a 2 point game and you have the ball with a chance to win and only need a FG instead of a TD"...when the FG option happened in the 2nd quarter, and people assume that every play call going forward would be the same. It's ridiculous.