The 5 spot next season

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WILLBGOPHER said:
EE is a lock for starting at the 5 next year, and he is no nightmare. Not all centers have to score a lot, in fact most don't.
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I agree.

If anything I'm a little concerned about Mo, he has not been the player we expected and much of that might be due to his extra weight. Seems Tubby is giving him some deserved 'punishment' bench time for his play/conditioning. Some players react by doing what needs to be done, others transfer. Not sure which Mo will chose.
 


I'm amazed how quickly people forget about all the good, productive minutes a guy has played for a program (i.e. EE, Welch) when said player goes through a difficult stretch. It happens. That's why most guys are here 4 years (or in Welch's case, 2).

On any team there's only a certain amount of room for star power. ... with the Gophers I'd argue that's Hollins x 2, Williams, and Mbakwe. Sometimes I think too many folks require that every player turn into a star before their Gopher career is over, or they are deemed a failure. Role players are welcome, and every good team has 'em.
 

being patient

SelectionSunday said:
I'm amazed how quickly people forget about all the good, productive minutes a guy has played for a program (i.e. EE, Welch) when said player goes through a difficult stretch. It happens. That's why most guys are here 4 years (or in Welch's case, 2).

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In years past i was more critical as we were losing and it seemed to do with injuries, transfers, and late recruiting. This year I feel different. EE is more inconsistent then I had hoped. But to think he wont be servicable as a jr and sr, when he was servicable as a freshman is nonsense. Walker has bigger issues to me. He is not an athlete like tractor or Dexter Pittman, but people keep bringing their names up as comparisons. Think more of Nix of Michigan St. Not an athlete, but now that he is around 260 he is great in the post and uses his size well. I also think Oto will be a quality player. It is just his second year. he will not be a star. He needs to refind his shot but other parts of his game are servicable. He is a solid bench guy. He may start but I hope a bulked up Buggs beats him out next year, or better yet we get a bigtime JC guy to push them both.
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EE has struggled at times and I think he'll probably continue to struggle at times, but I really like his style of play at the 5. He is a rebounder, he's active, he challenged on the pick and roll, and he's scrappy. His game still has a ways to go, but I am comfortable with him at the 5 on a team that will be dominated by guard play.

He'll start finishing a bit better at the rim than he is this year (he'll be around .500 like he was last year).


As far as the 4 next season, can Buggs get some minutes there? I've heard comparisons of him to Paul Carter and Johnson....should I think of Buggs as more of a 3 or a 4?
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
EE has struggled at times and I think he'll probably continue to struggle at times, but I really like his style of play at the 5. He is a rebounder, he's active, he challenged on the pick and roll, and he's scrappy. His game still has a ways to go, but I am comfortable with him at the 5 on a team that will be dominated by guard play.

He'll start finishing a bit better at the rim than he is this year (he'll be around .500 like he was last year).


As far as the 4 next season, can Buggs get some minutes there? I've heard comparisons of him to Paul Carter and Johnson....should I think of Buggs as more of a 3 or a 4?
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I really hope he plays the 4 since that's where we need the most help.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
EE has struggled at times and I think he'll probably continue to struggle at times, but I really like his style of play at the 5. He is a rebounder, he's active, he challenged on the pick and roll, and he's scrappy. His game still has a ways to go, but I am comfortable with him at the 5 on a team that will be dominated by guard play.

He'll start finishing a bit better at the rim than he is this year (he'll be around .500 like he was last year).


As far as the 4 next season, can Buggs get some minutes there? I've heard comparisons of him to Paul Carter and Johnson....should I think of Buggs as more of a 3 or a 4?
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Everything I saw and heard about Buggs last year I really liked, except he looked almost painfully skinny. No doubt in my mind he was going to be redshirted. He will spent time at the 4 during his career, but I see him as a mismatch at the 3.
 

Love this... especially coming from you who I would guess Dr. Don actually considers to be a worthwhile contributor. Grumpy old Don doesn't realize that this board is largely for people to offer opinions, regardless of how "qualified" they are. Not sure why he thinks his posts (that rarely talk about basketball) are better contributions than people giving opinions actually related to Gopher bball.

SelectionSunday said:
Is anyone on the board (other than Tubby) allowed to offer an opinion on basketball?
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howieramone said:
Everything I saw and heard about Buggs last year I really liked, except he looked almost painfully skinny. No doubt in my mind he was going to be redshirted. He will spent time at the 4 during his career, but I see him as a mismatch at the 3.
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Personally I think he would be more of a mismatch at the 4. Imagine a bigger slower guy trying to defend him from the perimeter. He could take PFs off the dribble much easier than SFs and could knock down jumpers when they're too slow to close out or find him on defense. He needs to get stronger, but Rodney isn't very strong either and is doing fantastic at the 4. Buggs is supposedly a little taller too.
 



SelectionSunday said:
I'm amazed how quickly people forget about all the good, productive minutes a guy has played for a program (i.e. EE, Welch) when said player goes through a difficult stretch. It happens. That's why most guys are here 4 years (or in Welch's case, 2).

On any team there's only a certain amount of room for star power. ... with the Gophers I'd argue that's Hollins x 2, Williams, and Mbakwe. Sometimes I think too many folks require that every player turn into a star before their Gopher career is over, or they are deemed a failure. Role players are welcome, and every good team has 'em.
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+10 There always has to be a whipping boy around here for some people. This year there are two: Elliot and Oto. Yes, both have struggled. Elliot is still on track to be a major contributor here before he's done. Oto seems more doubtful but he still might; his effect on any game certainly doesn't merit the number of negative comments about him. Essentially, he's been a non-factor struggling to figuring it out.
 

Mulligan said:
+10 There always has to be a whipping boy around here for some people. This year there are two: Elliot and Oto. Yes, both have struggled. Elliot is still on track to be a major contributor here before he's done. Oto seems more doubtful but he still might; his effect on any game certainly doesn't merit the number of negative comments about him. Essentially, he's been a non-factor struggling to figuring it out.
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If you look at the most important players (in order) thread weren't folks ranking Oto, Mo and Welch the lowest?

I'm fine with EE, he will get there, takes time for a guy that size. Worried about Oto and Mo at this point. Welch should be just fine.
 

Mulligan said:
+10 There always has to be a whipping boy around here for some people. This year there are two: Elliot and Oto. Yes, both have struggled. Elliot is still on track to be a major contributor here before he's done. Oto seems more doubtful but he still might; his effect on any game certainly doesn't merit the number of negative comments about him. Essentially, he's been a non-factor struggling to figuring it out.
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+11

It seems people have to find something to complain about. The Gophers will need Oto next year to play the 4. Freshmen and Juco's will take a while to pick up the defense. I hope the posts suggesting Oto transfer are completely wrong. He needs to improve but Tubby must see something because he is playing him. Gophers will be very short at the 4 next year without Oto.

Obviously EE is not terrible or Tubby would not be starting him. EE also needs to improve. I have read comments from him indicating he knows that and he is working on it. That is good enough for me.
 

Mulligan said:
+10 There always has to be a whipping boy around here for some people. This year there are two: Elliot and Oto. Yes, both have struggled. Elliot is still on track to be a major contributor here before he's done. Oto seems more doubtful but he still might; his effect on any game certainly doesn't merit the number of negative comments about him. Essentially, he's been a non-factor struggling to figuring it out.
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This phenomena bothers me even more when people become perennial whipping boys after one bad year (I'm obviously thinking Mav here). I heard the comparison earlier this year from someone that Mav was a lot like Collato (Spelling?) on the football team, where they were forced into roles they weren't ready for as freshmen, and some people were never willing to forgive them. I don't get too worked up when people are hard on them as freshman while they are struggling, as a fan of a B1G basketball or football team, you expect your PG and CB to play like B1G PG's and CB's regardless of how they ended up in the lineup. But people need to be more willing to reevaluate players as their careers go one, because college athletes can improve a lot.

A personal example for me is Ben Marshal with the hockey team. If you dig through the hockey board last year, I was really hard on the kid. I thought he was a huge liability in the defensive end, he kept getting pushed around in front of his own goal, and he tried to do moves he wasn't skilled enough to pull off and would turn it over, leaving his partner and goalie out to dry. And I was right, he was all of those things. However, this year, right from the Michigan State series, he has been playing solid two-way hockey and is probably one of our most valuable defensemen this year, and I don't think I've said a negative word about him. Relating it back to this thread, Oto has been struggling, has been ineffective, and I don't think it is unfair for paying fans to be frustrated with his play. The big thing for me, is if he really turns it around later this year or next year, I hope fans develop their opinions of him based on how he is playing at that time, and not continue to bash him because of how bad of a shooter he was during out of conference play "back in 2012".
 



A rare correspondent?.....

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
This phenomena bothers me even more when people become perennial whipping boys after one bad year (I'm obviously thinking Mav here). I heard the comparison earlier this year from someone that Mav was a lot like Collato (Spelling?) on the football team, where they were forced into roles they weren't ready for as freshmen, and some people were never willing to forgive them. I don't get too worked up when people are hard on them as freshman while they are struggling, as a fan of a B1G basketball or football team, you expect your PG and CB to pl?....ay like B1G PG's and CB's regardless of how they ended up in the lineup. But people need to be more willing to reevaluate players as their careers go one, because college athletes can improve a lot.

A personal example for me is Ben Marshal with the hockey team. If you dig through the hockey board last year, I was really hard on the kid. I thought he was a huge liability in the defensive end, he kept getting pushed around in front of his own goal, and he tried to do moves he wasn't skilled enough to pull off and would turn it over, leaving his partner and goalie out to dry. And I was right, he was all of those things. However, this year, right from the Michigan State series, he has been playing solid two-way hockey and is probably one of our most valuable defensemen this year, and I don't think I've said a negative word about him. Relating it back to this thread, Oto has been struggling, has been ineffective, and I don't think it is unfair for paying fans to be frustrated with his play. The big thing for me, is if he really turns it around later this year or next year, I hope fans develop their opinions of him based on how he is playing at that time, and not continue to bash him because of how bad of a shooter he was during out of conference play "back in 2012".
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Who is willing and able to talk both puck and hoop!
 


Mav was really poor as both a freshman and a sophomore, it's encouraging to see him knockdown the 3 point shot this year. I think the increase in the discussion of Elliott Eliason is due to his poor games against USC and especially against NDSU. It also should be noted that the AXS TV guys absolutely ripped Eliason for his play in the Duke and Memphis games, so it's not just Gopher fans. Eliason should improve, he was better than this last year and still does a lot of the little things on the court to help a team win. The concern is that in his 3rd year on campus he can't easily score over another teams 6'7-6'9 player.

Much more worried about who plays the 4 next year as the Gophers badly need an Mbakwe type.
 

EG#9 said:
Mav was really poor as both a freshman and a sophomore, it's encouraging to see him knockdown the 3 point shot this year. I think the increase in the discussion of Elliott Eliason is due to his poor games against USC and especially against NDSU. It also should be noted that the AXS TV guys absolutely ripped Eliason for his play in the Duke and Memphis games, so it's not just Gopher fans. Eliason should improve, he was better than this last year and still does a lot of the little things on the court to help a team win. The concern is that in his 3rd year on campus he can't easily score over another teams 6'7-6'9 player.

Much more worried about who plays the 4 next year as the Gophers badly need an Mbakwe type.
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For the first 3 years of Trevor Winter's Gopher career the guy couldn't make a dunk or layup, couldn't grab a rebound, and couldn't catch a pass. By his senior year he improved so much that he got a quick look in the NBA. John Thomas was pretty awful his frosh and soph years, but was a major force in his upperclassmen years and was an NBA draft pick. Cody Zeller was awesome as a freshman, but big men who are that good that young are few and far between. Unfortunately, everyone thinks that all big men are supposed to be just as good as Mr. Zeller. They aren't, particularly in younger years when their feet aren't cooperating. When we all realize this, we'll take a deep breath and calm down.

EE's biggest problem is a slow first step on both ends of the court. It's late enough that it seems to me like he's concentrating on the wrong things - maybe some sort of mental block. Probably doesn't help that he knows the guy he's starting over - Mbakwe - is currently a better player and perhaps this is making EE uncomfortable. For this season, if he moves his feet, grabs boards, hustles for loose balls and knocks down some bunnies and free throws, I'll be very happy. He's currently doing most of these things most - but not all - of the time. I'll be looking for improvement in 2013 and 2014.
 

Probably Foster

EG#9 said:
Much more worried about who plays the 4 next year
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hopefully Schilling.

_____________
Random side note: Chris Halvorson had a espn/scout grade of 86. That's messed up.
 

EG#9 said:
Mav was really poor as both a freshman and a sophomore, it's encouraging to see him knockdown the 3 point shot this year. I think the increase in the discussion of Elliott Eliason is due to his poor games against USC and especially against NDSU. It also should be noted that the AXS TV guys absolutely ripped Eliason for his play in the Duke and Memphis games, so it's not just Gopher fans. Eliason should improve, he was better than this last year and still does a lot of the little things on the court to help a team win. The concern is that in his 3rd year on campus he can't easily score over another teams 6'7-6'9 player.

Much more worried about who plays the 4 next year as the Gophers badly need an Mbakwe type.
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Same here.

EE and Mo will share the 5 spot. How good will they be next year? We'll find out next year.

Who plays the 4 is the big question for next year.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I'm amazed how quickly people forget about all the good, productive minutes a guy has played for a program (i.e. EE, Welch) when said player goes through a difficult stretch. It happens. That's why most guys are here 4 years (or in Welch's case, 2).

On any team there's only a certain amount of room for star power. ... with the Gophers I'd argue that's Hollins x 2, Williams, and Mbakwe. Sometimes I think too many folks require that every player turn into a star before their Gopher career is over, or they are deemed a failure. Role players are welcome, and every good team has 'em.
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+1000. Elliott Eliason is still a young, developing big man. Kind of reminds me of all the badgering that RSIII got for not being a star, and EE is only sophomore for heaven's sake.
 

cncmin said:
For the first 3 years of Trevor Winter's Gopher career the guy couldn't make a dunk or layup, couldn't grab a rebound, and couldn't catch a pass. By his senior year he improved so much that he got a quick look in the NBA. John Thomas was pretty awful his frosh and soph years, but was a major force in his upperclassmen years and was an NBA draft pick. Cody Zeller was awesome as a freshman, but big men who are that good that young are few and far between. Unfortunately, everyone thinks that all big men are supposed to be just as good as Mr. Zeller. They aren't, particularly in younger years when their feet aren't cooperating. When we all realize this, we'll take a deep breath and calm down.

EE's biggest problem is a slow first step on both ends of the court. It's late enough that it seems to me like he's concentrating on the wrong things - maybe some sort of mental block. Probably doesn't help that he knows the guy he's starting over - Mbakwe - is currently a better player and perhaps this is making EE uncomfortable. For this season, if he moves his feet, grabs boards, hustles for loose balls and knocks down some bunnies and free throws, I'll be very happy. He's currently doing most of these things most - but not all - of the time. I'll be looking for improvement in 2013 and 2014.
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Totally agree on Winter. Same is true for Jeff Hagen. I remember Thomas being pretty decent as a sophomore, but I agree with your overall post. EE will be just fine.
 

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