Students Paying Their Own Way To Camp

[wels0081]

Urban Meyer doesn't think high school students should have to pay their way to college football camps.

Hate to say it, but I agree with him.

I think this says something about recruiting at Ohio State versus Florida. The kids don't live down the road anymore and Urban can't get the talent to drive to Columbus.

From ESPN:
Ohio State coach Urban Meyer took aim at some of the problems he sees in college athletics during a news conference promoting the Sound Mind Sound Body Academy in suburban Detroit on Wednesday morning.
And what irked Meyer most was that high school athletes have to pay their own way to campuses for unofficial visits and camps. The NCAA allows five official visits to schools, paid for by the institutions, during an athlete's senior year.
"It is one of the problems I have now with collegiate athletics. It's almost anti-student-athlete where they have to come to us for camp," Meyer said. "How many kids can afford to fly or drive that far?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/r...uckeyes-irked-high-school-athletes-pay-travel

 

[dpodoll68]

So if I seek a job opportunity that's a long ways away, they're supposed to pay for my airfare, hotel, and food when I come for an interview?

 

[GopherGod]

So if I seek a job opportunity that's a long ways away, they're supposed to pay for my airfare, hotel, and food when I come for an interview?

It is actually pretty standard for a company, based on my experience to pay to fly you in and pay for your hotel if they are seriously interested in you for an opening.

 

[Curseislifted33]

Agree with DPO, I wouldn't be oppossed to extending the official visits to include junior year as well but keeping it at 5. With how the recruiting landscape has changed and so many kids committing before their senior seasons it would seem logical/beneficial to everyone involved.

 

[dpodoll68]

It is actually pretty standard for a company, based on my experience to pay to fly you in and pay for your hotel if they are seriously interested in you for an opening.

Yes, and that would be akin to an official visit. Both parties are seriously interested in each other. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about dozens and dozens of players coming in, a handful of whom will ever receive serious interest from the school.

 

[GopherGod]

Yes, and that would be akin to an official visit. Both parties are seriously interested in each other. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about dozens and dozens of players coming in, a handful of whom will ever receive serious interest from the school.

Do you honestly think Urban Meyer was concerned about all high school athletes that want to attend the Ohio State camp? He is most likely only concerned about the kids that he has already offered or has the intent of potentially offering. In other words those receiving serious interest and not the small town 150 lb wide receiver with 5.0 sec speed. While it would likely be dozens of athletes, it would likely also only be for players they have a serious interest in.

 

[SJUgopher]

Urban Meyer doesn't think high school students should have to pay their way to college football camps.

Hate to say it, but I agree with him.

I don't. This would totally benefit the schools who have the most money. They can essentially get every kid they want on to their campus if they pay for them to come. A kid can only go on 5 official visit, but can go to as many camps/unofficial visits as they afford, which usually tend to be the schools they have interest in/local schools.

 

[dpodoll68]

Do you honestly think Urban Meyer was concerned about all high school athletes that want to attend the Ohio State camp? He is most likely only concerned about the kids that he has already offered or has the intent of potentially offering. In other words those receiving serious interest and not the small town 150 lb wide receiver with 5.0 sec speed.

Yes, exactly. And those players already get a free trip to campus in the form of an official visit. If schools are suddenly allowed to pay for all expenses every time a kid comes to visit, what's stopping someone like Urban Meyer from holding a "camp" every single day of the summer and "inviting" players to come to "camp" 100 times? Where's the line? Helmet schools already have enough of an inherent advantage, and there is no need to tilt the playing field even more in their favor by allowing them to pay for everyone to come to their camps.

What constantly gets lost in these "pay college athletes" discussions is that everything these kids are doing is 100% voluntary. No one is holding a gun to Billy Joe Bob from Brokeville, FL and forcing him to fly to Columbus for a camp. It is not mandatory that he goes to Columbus. If he can't afford it, he can camp at USF, or UCF, or UF, or FSU, or Miami, or FIU, etc., etc. If he wants to come to Columbus, he needs to pay for it. He is making a conscious decision to travel across the country and needs to be responsible for all of the costs implicit in that decision.

 

[GopherGod]

Yes, exactly. And those players already get a free trip to campus in the form of an official visit. If schools are suddenly allowed to pay for all expenses every time a kid comes to visit, what's stopping someone like Urban Meyer from holding a "camp" every single day of the summer and "inviting" players to come to "camp" 100 times? Where's the line? Helmet schools already have enough of an inherent advantage, and there is no need to tilt the playing field even more in their favor by allowing them to pay for everyone to come to their camps.

What constantly gets lost in these "pay college athletes" discussions is that everything these kids are doing is 100% voluntary. No one is holding a gun to Billy Joe Bob from Brokeville, FL and forcing him to fly to Columbus for a camp. It is not mandatory that he goes to Columbus. If he can't afford it, he can camp at USF, or UCF, or UF, or FSU, or Miami, or FIU, etc., etc. If he wants to come to Columbus, he needs to pay for it. He is making a conscious decision to travel across the country and needs to be responsible for all of the costs implicit in that decision.

I actually think that this would help schools like Minnesota and any other school that has to recruit nationally due to lack of local talent. Many of the helmet schools are already located in talent rich states so they are getting these kids to come to camp already because they can drive, so probably isn't going to impact them as much as a school like Minnesota. With being limited to 5 official visits, a star player from Florida for instance may not want to "waste" an official on Minnesota who he is not really that serious about. If all of a sudden he can come and not have to pay for it, he may come to camp and be presently surprised and consider a non-helmet school that he likely never would have considered before. All it cost the player to come was time, not financial resources he doesn't have, to see a school that he initially had no interest in but now does. Allowing schools to pay for any and all recruits to come in and camp is no different than what corporations due when trying to identify and lure talent to their organization, which is why your statement earlier didn't make sense because that is common practice. You can create a reasonable line that only 2 or 3 camps per year per school that they can fly kids in for, so it isn't a camp every day of the year. At least it gives a school the opportunity to get the kids in to see the school where the kids doesn't have to waste an official visit or pony up money they don't have.

 

[To Be Named Later]

My new favorite tactic being used by coaches is calling the system "anti-student athlete." While I will give Urban Meyer the benefit of the doubt and concede that he might, actually, have the kid's best interests in mind, my guess is that he is championing the issue, at least partially, for selfish reasons.

The coaches make themselves look good by appearing to be player-friendly, all the while knowing full well that changes to the system are MUCH easier said than done. I have been making a list of reasons in my head of reasons changing this rule would create more problems for the NCAA. I thought for one minute and came up with 13.

Again, Meyer might actually care about the prospective players the school would bring in, but I'm guessing he cares much more about his own ability to recruit them.

 

[dpodoll68]

Allowing schools to pay for any and all recruits to come in and camp is no different than what corporations due when trying to identify and lure talent to their organization, which is why your statement earlier didn't make sense because that is common practice.

If a corporation took every single person who applied for a job, invited them to interview, and paid for all of them to come interview, your analogy would make sense. Since they don't, it doesn't. A player showing up to a camp is, in essence, submitting a job application with an initial informal "interview". The coaching staff is saying "if we like you, we'll call you". The players who are being seriously considered for the "job" have their expenses covered to come in and "interview" (i.e., official visit).

Also, in your hypothetical, Minnesota is not going to invite and pay for a random player who has little-to-no interest in coming to the school. They're not in a position to do things like that, because Minnesota doesn't have that kind of money. Most non-BCS schools are in an even worse position financially. Hence, the big, wealthy schools win again.

 

[GopherGod]

If a corporation took every single person who applied for a job, invited them to interview, and paid for all of them to come interview, your analogy would make sense. Since they don't, it doesn't. A player showing up to a camp is, in essence, submitting a job application with an initial informal "interview". The coaching staff is saying "if we like you, we'll call you". The players who are being seriously considered for the "job" have their expenses covered to come in and "interview" (i.e., official visit).

Also, in your hypothetical, Minnesota is not going to invite and pay for a random player who has little-to-no interest in coming to the school. They're not in a position to do things like that, because Minnesota doesn't have that kind of money. Most non-BCS schools are in an even worse position financially. Hence, the big, wealthy schools win again.

My analogy makes sense because as stated before the statements you were referencing were from Urban who likely isn't concerned about every athlete wanting to attend the Ohio State camp. He is talking about recruits he is actually considering or has offered. Paying for every camper to attend camp such as the 150 lb 5.0 sec WR would be equivalent to what you state above (paying for every job applicant) which is not what Urban is talking about. Urban is only talking about paying for guys he has a legitimate interest in, just like a corporation only flying in serious candidates. The comparison between an official visit and a company paying for expenses for a candidate are not the same because a job candidate is not limited to only having 5 companies pay for their expenses, so they don't have to ration them.

In regards to my hypothetical, you seriously believe that Jerry Kill and Minnesota wouldn't be interested in reaching out to a few of the top recruits and trying to convince them to take a visit and at least give Minnesota a chance. I am sure they would be more than willing to play for a few plane tickets to at least get these guys on campus who likely wouldn't come otherwise.

 

[wels0081]

I would love to see a system that would make the colleges pay the way for any student athlete to attend the camp.

So, if Urban really wants some kid from Dallas to camp at Ohio State, he's got to make sure he pays cab fare for Dublin, Ohio's waterboy to attend as well.

I just really don't think there is a good answer to this problem. Poor student athletes shouldn't be limited in their college options because they don't have the $300-$600 for airfare as 17-year-old kids.

 

[highwayman]

Make it simple. If the kid gets his way paid to camp, he doesn't get an official visit. That's it.

 

[Parski1]

Pay their own freakin way if they want to go to a camp. Why are we even questioning this???

 

[Dr.Don]

Pay their own freakin way if they want to go to a camp. Why are we even questioning this???

Amen Parski, I totally agree. If they want money to go to a camp, let them work for it, and save money for it.

 

[1983]

Amen Parski, I totally agree. If they want money to go to a camp, let them work for it, and save money for it.

I believe the spirit of this whole thing is that there are student athletes who are invited to a camp by a coach and they cannot afford to go. The coach's camp pays their way if he chooses as a scholarship to his camp. We here at Minnesota would benefit from being able to give a kid a camp scholarship to attend coach Kill's camp. EVERYONE we compete with does. There are requirements to get a paid way to camps. Mr Meyer's camp is funded by the University which I believe prohibits paying a campers way to his camp. At our University, coach Kill's camp is funded by coach Kill and those who pay to attend. The great majority of coaches have separate fundraising efforts to enable them to pay high school coaches and others to be at the camp as well as bring in less privileged and deserving campers.

 

[Unregistered User]

Helmet schools already have enough of an inherent advantage, and there is no need to tilt the playing field even more in their favor by allowing them to pay for everyone to come to their camps.

Let's stop talking about an idea pushed forward by Urban Meyer, and only Urban Meyer.

The real issue at hand is that the current system no longer is an advantage for Urban since he left Florida, and now he's damned pissed about it.

 

[GopherGod]

Let's stop talking about an idea pushed forward by Urban Meyer, and only Urban Meyer.

The real issue at hand is that the current system no longer is an advantage for Urban since he left Florida, and now he's damned pissed about it.

I would venture that Coach Kill would be in favor of being able to pay for top recruits to attend his camp. Most coaches like their chances better if they can actually get a kid on campus and this makes that easier and less restrictive. This might be a good question to ask him however and find out for sure.

 

[oleboy41]

honestly this would benefit schools like us more than helmet schools with local talent bases. Urban would be against this were he still at UF

 

[Parski1]

I would venture that Coach Kill would be in favor of being able to pay for top recruits to attend his camp. Most coaches like their chances better if they can actually get a kid on campus and this makes that easier and less restrictive. This might be a good question to ask him however and find out for sure.

So Student Athletes should be paid to play on Saturdays...should be paid to go to Kills camp...so what's next paid to accept a scholarship. Ooops - Did I say that?

 

[GopherGod]

So Student Athletes should be paid to play on Saturdays...should be paid to go to Kills camp...so what's next paid to accept a scholarship. Ooops - Did I say that?

They aren't getting paid to attend camp, their costs for attending are just covered. Jerry Kill isn't filling their wallets with cash before they leave. That isn't what people are advocating for. If you have a fundamental problem with this, then why are you okay with schools paying for official visits? What is so special or magical about 5 paid official visits, but more than 5 paid visits/camps for an athlete is fundamentally wrong?

 

[Parski1]

They aren't getting paid to attend camp, their costs for attending are just covered. Jerry Kill isn't filling their wallets with cash before they leave. That isn't what people are advocating for. If you have a fundamental problem with this, then why are you okay with schools paying for official visits? What is so special or magical about 5 paid official visits, but more than 5 paid visits/camps for an athlete is fundamentally wrong?

I should have added *sarcasm* at the end.

 

[Calgoph]

No matter how you slice it and dice it, anything that costs money will most benefit those that have the most money to spend. Urban Meyer knows this (and so does Steve Spurrier when it comes to paying players).

 

[mplsbadger]

Why wouldn't you favor a rule that brings together the players where there are not enough schools, with the schools where there are not enough players, when we are fans of a school where there are not enough players?

 

[matt]

Why wouldn't you favor a rule that brings together the players where there are not enough schools, with the schools where there are not enough players, when we are fans of a school where there are not enough players?

Just because it would benefit us doesn't mean you have to support it. If the NCAA proposed a rule that all schools ending with "innesota" could have 12 men on the field, would you support it? I agree with dpodoll that these players already have the opportunity to visit schools and do some drills using official visits. If the NCAA wanted to make a rule to allow these visits to be made during the junior year or change the rules a bit on that, I would be fine with that. If high school players could have their camp expenses paid for though, then hundreds of players each year would be using it as a paid vacation to visit Hawaii, ASU, UCLA, USC, SDSU, Miami, etc. Players would be going to dozens of camps, missing school, and wasting the $$ of many universities.

 

[dpodoll68]

these players already have the opportunity to visit schools and do some drills using official visits

Actually, you can't do "football activities" (i.e., drills, lifting, film study, etc.) during official visits. These types of things can only be done in a camp setting.

Rest of your post? Spot on. Whatever "advantage" Minnesota could gain from this would be exploited even more thoroughly by schools with more money. That's how having resources works.

 

[station19]

Rest of your post? Spot on. Whatever "advantage" Minnesota could gain from this would be exploited even more thoroughly by schools with more money. That's how having resources works.

+19

College FB and BB should move closer to amatuer status, not pro status.

If that means some of the best college-age players are in a pro/semi-pro league and not on a college team, so be it.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I hear what some of you are saying about this disproportionately helping the big money programs. However, I think, theoretically, I agree with Meyer.

It would be easy to fashion a rule that allowed a program to hold 1-2 camps in the summer (to avoid the "camp every weekend problem") and to allow the school to pay for the athletes travel/lodging for those camps. I'm not saying that a school has to, but if a school is willing to pay a kid to travel to attend camp, I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[mplsbadger]

I guess I'm far less worried about the money differences between us and the other schools in the conference than I am the geographic disadvantage we now face. Who's gaining congress seats and who's losing them?

When was the last time the Gophers (or any Big Ten team) played in the college world series? I don't want football to end up like baseball. The only thing preventing it right now is a bunch of 80,000 plus seat stadiums in the north that still make it fun for a kid to come play here.

I'm pretty sure if Murray were alive today he would favor flying kids like Eller and Bell in for a closer look.