Stadium Expansion...

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AF_Howie_2180

AF_Howie_2180

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So one of the joys of working over nights when its -10 degrees out side in public safety you get a lot of down time to cruise the interwebs, not sure what brought me down this road tonight but I came across this gem of an article from back when PJ was first hired. It talks about his vision for the team and stadium in general and curious what others think now that things he is talking about are starting to happen....

"Fleck’s vision is that the Gophers would add 30,000 more seats to TCF Bank Stadium, which would put them in between the likes of Nebraska’s Memorial Stadium (86,047 capacity) and Wisconsin’s Camp Randall Stadium (80,321 capacity).
Even Iowa, which consistently sells out games, has a capacity of 70,585 at Kinnick Stadium.

Fleck said that in order to make that jump, Minnesota will have to get fans that don’t care about football to commit to regularly attending games."

Far as I know this is still a pipe dream as they are still trying to get those last few dollars found to help pay for the most recent upgrades to the Athletic Village. However if we are able to roll off several more 8, 9, 10+ seasons and a couple of west titles out right I could see the drum slowly start to be beat for this to happen.

saturdaytradition.com

P.J. Fleck has a lofty expansion goal for TCF Bank Stadium

The new Minnesota coach has big aspirations for the Gophers' home stadium.
saturdaytradition.com saturdaytradition.com

On that note, does anyone have any drawings of what an expanded Stadium might look like should that time ever come?
 

AF_Howie_2180 said:
So one of the joys of working over nights when its -10 degrees out side in public safety you get a lot of down time to cruise the interwebs, not sure what brought me down this road tonight but I came across this gem of an article from back when PJ was first hired. It talks about his vision for the team and stadium in general and curious what others think now that things he is talking about are starting to happen....

"Fleck’s vision is that the Gophers would add 30,000 more seats to TCF Bank Stadium, which would put them in between the likes of Nebraska’s Memorial Stadium (86,047 capacity) and Wisconsin’s Camp Randall Stadium (80,321 capacity).
Even Iowa, which consistently sells out games, has a capacity of 70,585 at Kinnick Stadium.

Fleck said that in order to make that jump, Minnesota will have to get fans that don’t care about football to commit to regularly attending games."

Far as I know this is still a pipe dream as they are still trying to get those last few dollars found to help pay for the most recent upgrades to the Athletic Village. However if we are able to roll off several more 8, 9, 10+ seasons and a couple of west titles out right I could see the drum slowly start to be beat for this to happen.

saturdaytradition.com

P.J. Fleck has a lofty expansion goal for TCF Bank Stadium

The new Minnesota coach has big aspirations for the Gophers' home stadium.
saturdaytradition.com saturdaytradition.com

On that note, does anyone have any drawings of what an expanded Stadium might look like should that time ever come?
Click to expand...

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30,000 additional seats is a very tall order.

8 and/or 9 win seasons aren't going to come close to moving the needle far enough to regularly sell out the stadium as it currently exists, much less increase capacity by 30,000 seats. Claeys won 9 games in 2016 and attendance was mediocre at best.

In order to create enough fan interest to necessitate adding 30,000 seats, we'd have to be thinking way beyond merely contending for the occasional B1G West title. Minnesota would have to become the Ohio State of the B1G West in order to generate that much fan enthusiasm.
 

Even if we won the B1G ... +30k is a big investment when even highly successful programs are struggling with attendance questions.

Fortunately nobody is locked into 30k or nothing so no reason they couldn't do some testing with some temporary seating up around the roof ... them somewhat more permanent and so on.

Plenty of good options when the time comes, we've seen some real big steps for the program even if there is a long ways to go before contemplating anything permanent.
 

RememberMurray said:
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30,000 additional seats is a very tall order.

8 and/or 9 win seasons aren't going to come close to moving the needle far enough to regularly sell out the stadium as it currently exists, much less increase capacity by 30,000 seats. Claeys won 9 games in 2016 and attendance was mediocre at best.

In order to create enough fan interest to necessitate adding 30,000 seats, we'd have to be thinking way beyond merely contending for the occasional B1G West title. Minnesota would have to become the Ohio State of the B1G West in order to generate that much fan enthusiasm.
Click to expand...

With the attendance problem going on all over the country and in a market with so much competition I would think stadium expansion is still a major pipe dream for any point in the future.

That said, to the part in bold, this is what Fleck is pushing for. Maybe not being Ohio State but at the very least unseating Wisconsin from their perch atop the West.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Even if we won the B1G ... +30k is a big investment when even highly successful programs are struggling with attendance questions.

Fortunately nobody is locked into 30k or nothing so no reason they couldn't do some testing with some temporary seating up around the roof ... them somewhat more permanent and so on.

Plenty of good options when the time comes, we've seen some real big steps for the program even if there is a long ways to go before contemplating anything permanent.
Click to expand...


Makes total sense with Temp seating etc... There is a lot of space on top for doing some very creative things!
 



It's something to aspire to. We sure have the necessary population for it. Plenty of football fans in that population. We just need to cultivate the fan base for another decade or so. Ever since the Jerry Kill hire we've been trending upward.
 

Even if we sold out every game for 5 years I doubt it would happen. TV is becoming a better and better alternative to going in person. That's been a trend everywhere and doesn't look like it will stop soon. No matter how well tickets sell now they won't spend that money when the trend is towards people staying home.
 

To be clear, Minny has discounted the effects of college athletics in the past and paid dearly. So, think about that before you begin to believe the TV/Phone trend is the end of on campus sports.
 



If you really want to see all of the game TV is better. But if you want the game atmosphere and being part of the crowd being there is better.
MN has to not only win consistently, a W over Auburn would be a good start, but markedly improve the whole being there atmosphere. Maturi and the administration did everything they could suck the fun out of TCF and the area around it when the stadium was built.
I still doubt if the will is there at the highest levels to do what needs to be done.
 

It’d be awesome to add those 30,000 seats. My Dad and I dreamt of it since they built the stadium. I’d like to think that it’s not THAT far off, seeing the amount of support the team has gained after just one successful season, and the amount of people that showed up for Penn State and Wisconsin. There were people complaining about not being able to attend the Wisconsin game due to waiting too long to jump on some tickets. Imagine what a Rose Bowl 11 win season would do for the fan base, or better yet a college football playoff run. If we string together 2-3 seasons where we’re competing for a spot in the playoff, or we win the Big Ten championship, I could see people pushing for them to expand.
 

Plato said:
If you really want to see all of the game TV is better. But if you want the game atmosphere and being part of the crowd being there is better.
MN has to not only win consistently, a W over Auburn would be a good start, but markedly improve the whole being there atmosphere. Maturi and the administration did everything they could suck the fun out of TCF and the area around it when the stadium was built.
I still doubt if the will is there at the highest levels to do what needs to be done.
Click to expand...

Agree and the bolded part is key I think. Why can't they do a better job of combining these two?? I know bigger scoreboards have happened, but there has got to be a way to do a far better job of enhancing the "at the game" experience with the better parts of the "tv" experience!
 

The Wisconsin and Penn State games gave us a look at what kind of crowds we could attract at the least - someday. During the Penn State game I never left my seat because I could see how many people were trying to get in to the concourse but at halftime of the WI game I tried to get to the bathroom, get a beer and maybe a pretzel because at every other poorly attended game I can get 2 of those 3 things done. Well the priority shifted to get a beer and forget about the rest because the concourse was literally packed with bodies and it was clear if we attract larger crowds if/when the Gophers win consistently that TCF is too small. It clearly felt that way during the Badger game. We don't want to underestimate the ability of this team to win and attract larger crowds in this market which leaves TCF looking and feeling too small. We need to have hope, wait and see how many people show up to buy tickets in the near future and plan accordingly.
 




In watching attendance trends all over the country, not only in college football but in all spectator sports, it has left me with the opinion that TCF Bank Stadium will never be expanded.

In fact, I have a feeling there are a lot of Universities out there that would love to quietly reduce their capacity. We have seen a few places expand their capacity (Texas A&M, Nebraska, etc.) but we have also seen others that have reduced their capacity (Arizona State, Stanford) during stadium remodeling. We've also seen at least one team that has reached the kind of sustained success we are hoping for with the Gophers (Oregon) with roughly the same sized stadium and they have not expanded it.

After all is said and done my personal opinion is regardless of Gopher level of success, I say there is an 86% chance the stadium capacity isn't changed at all, with a 10% chance something small but permanent of the same size as the Viking end zone expansion would be done, a 3% chance a third deck appears on the visitor side gaining 10-15K seats, and a 1% chance anything bigger than that will ever happen. In other words, I am guessing we will likely never see a TCF Bank Stadium permanent capacity beyond 55,000 or so.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Step 1:

HOT TUBS ON THE ROOF!!!!
Click to expand...

First, unbelievable suggestion.

However, as most people most likely realize, this is a pipe dream primarily due to the fact that the Twin Cities houses the four major pro sports (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB). There is simply not enough marketshare for a large stadium. I agree that attendance across the country is taking hits, and TVs are unreal in this day and age (and only getting better as people move to OLED).

There are not four pro franchises (only Columbus from above has one) in any of the cities listed on this thread. University of Cincinnati did not elect to make Nippert as large as their conference foes due to the pro teams in the background (and they do not even have the NBA or NHL).

Could the Gophers attract larger crowds? maybe. Could they do it for every home game (see non con schedule, MD, RU, etc) to make it profitable? tough given the pro teams (and because of the above, they would need to be consistently good for decades to even have a chance).
 

Schnauzer said:
In watching attendance trends all over the country, not only in college football but in all spectator sports, it has left me with the opinion that TCF Bank Stadium will never be expanded.

In fact, I have a feeling there are a lot of Universities out there that would love to quietly reduce their capacity. We have seen a few places expand their capacity (Texas A&M, Nebraska, etc.) but we have also seen others that have reduced their capacity (Arizona State, Stanford) during stadium remodeling. We've also seen at least one team that has reached the kind of sustained success we are hoping for with the Gophers (Oregon) with roughly the same sized stadium and they have not expanded it.

After all is said and done my personal opinion is regardless of Gopher level of success, I say there is an 86% chance the stadium capacity isn't changed at all, with a 10% chance something small but permanent of the same size as the Viking end zone expansion would be done, a 3% chance a third deck appears on the visitor side gaining 10-15K seats, and a 1% chance anything bigger than that will ever happen. In other words, I am guessing we will likely never see a TCF Bank Stadium permanent capacity beyond 55,000 or so.
Click to expand...

People are reducing capacity, albeit slowly and quietly and in different ways.

Michigan reduced the number of seats a while back when they renovated, putting in better facilities and thus the number of seats were reduced.

I expect expansion of "club" like seats and stadium enhancements will result in smaller numbers.

You can do it that way without the bad PR of just ... eliminating seats because you aren't sure about filling them long term.
 

TCF was deliberately built with two assumptions in mind relevant to this discussion. One was that we did not want 20,000 Badger or Hawkeye fans coming to one game per year because those seats were always empty. The other assumption was that TCF could be expanded up to 80,000 seats. That is, the foundation and support is already built in. No external support would need to be added. This was part of the plan.

IMHO some seats (10,000?) should only be added as the season ticket demand requires such an investment. Adding capacity makes no sense for one game or two game "wants" by a few thousand bandwagon jumpers. I find it ironic that some of those folk are exactly the same idiots who want the older fans to stay home and stop coming to the games if they don't want to stand for four hours.
 

Schnauzer said:
In watching attendance trends all over the country, not only in college football but in all spectator sports, it has left me with the opinion that TCF Bank Stadium will never be expanded.

In fact, I have a feeling there are a lot of Universities out there that would love to quietly reduce their capacity. We have seen a few places expand their capacity (Texas A&M, Nebraska, etc.) but we have also seen others that have reduced their capacity (Arizona State, Stanford) during stadium remodeling. We've also seen at least one team that has reached the kind of sustained success we are hoping for with the Gophers (Oregon) with roughly the same sized stadium and they have not expanded it.

After all is said and done my personal opinion is regardless of Gopher level of success, I say there is an 86% chance the stadium capacity isn't changed at all, with a 10% chance something small but permanent of the same size as the Viking end zone expansion would be done, a 3% chance a third deck appears on the visitor side gaining 10-15K seats, and a 1% chance anything bigger than that will ever happen. In other words, I am guessing we will likely never see a TCF Bank Stadium permanent capacity beyond 55,000 or so.
Click to expand...
That's kind of my thought too. Autzen is generally considered one of the best atmospheres in college football. What creates a better atmosphere: 50k soldout crowd that is bursting at the seems or 65k that is more spread out?
 

Sell out a season first, Eh! Then add 10 or 15K seats.

The Gophers can win 10 games a season for 4-5 years and still not sell out if they don't start beating Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan and playing competitively with OSU. To sell out, non-conference games have to be much higher profile or more regional. Iowa State, Colorado, Notre Dame, Missouri, the Kansas schools would help draw out of town fans. Certainly playing Dakota schools would help sell tickets.

But winning and scheduling isn't the end of selling out. Got to keep working on the game day environment and making it ELITE to get people from just turning on the TV and into their cars to go to the game. That takes marketing and planning. Commitment to making a Gopher football game an experience destination. Waving at the kid's at Kinnick, Enter Sandman Stadium Entry at Virginia Tech, The Twelth Man at A&M, we need a tradition people want to be a part of!

The ROW, ROW, ROW chant could do this. But you need something.
 

Personally when the place sells out I find the stadium to be grossly under constructed in the concourse area. Trying to move from seats to concessions to restrooms etc.. almost impossible during the Wisconsin game. Not sure how to address that current problem if you add more seats.
 

Since the athletic department is still many millions short on paying for the remaining costs of Athletes Village.....where does the money come from to expand TCF?
 

fanfromthevalley said:
Since the athletic department is still many millions short on paying for the remaining costs of Athletes Village.....where does the money come from to expand TCF?
Click to expand...

Aren't they pretty much where they expected to be as far as paying for the village?

As for expansion I think everyone would expect demand / revenue would need to increase before such an expansions.
 

This is about as likely as P.J. Fleck becoming governor.

Hmmm.
 

I like it. The magic of thinking big! I remember talk of that when Fleck was hired.

Let's win tilted, and have consecutive season sellouts first.
 


They should look at 10,000 to 15,000 tops, and then really focus on access, mobility and amenities. Would love to see more restrooms and food on the upper level of the North and East Side. A bar could be added to the East end. Make it a great unique experience.
 

TurfGopher said:
View attachment 6747this would be around 15K extra seats. Would probably need the third deck to wrap around from jumbotron to jumbotron to get 30k. I made a sign on the top that says "not gonna happen" but its too blurry to read ?‍♂️
Click to expand...
Sorry but that is so cheap looking, compared to how well and "done right" the rest of the stadium is. That looks like a Central Florida "slap it on after the fact" cheap addition. Would rather raise ticket prices, in my opinion.
 


fanfromthevalley said:
Since the athletic department is still many millions short on paying for the remaining costs of Athletes Village.....where does the money come from to expand TCF?
Click to expand...

Lou Nanne is working on it........from sunny Florida
 

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