St. Thomas Looking to Buy T&C for New Arena

$61 million seems really low ball to me. I grew up a stone’s throw from T&C and used to cross country ski on the golf course for years. Lots of rolling hills, some really steep. Gorgeous venue! St. Thomas could build an entirely new campus there with all their sports fields included. I wouldn’t particularly like to see it happen but it’d be a great move if they could get the property.
 

As someone who served on the board of a golf club that has very valuable land, these unsolicited offers come along more frequently than one might think. Because the members hold stock in the club, the board has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to investigate offers. Most can be dismissed out of hand. But sometimes, you are forced to investigate these offers in a more formal way to protect yourself from potential shareholder actions. If it were not for the fact that T&C had the embezzlement issue a few years back, and the subsequent assessments from its members, I am guessing the board might have just turned this unsolicited offer down immediately. But that past complicates their situation. As does the dollar amount.

The tax issue is not inconsequential. Most clubs have minimal stock prices - substantially under a $1000 per share. The capital gain tax on the sale would be substantial. And while newer members may like that concept, from experience, older (in age and tenure) members are hyper sensitive about things like that.

On top, there is an extra step in any development at T&C - a commission that controls the River Bluff area. Their rules have stymied the Highland Bridges development, the redevelopment of the Diamond Jim's Mall area in Lilydale, etc. Extremely tight development standards with little room for variances. St Thomas would have a serious uphill battle for a stadium.

The really solution for St Thomas is the Seminary property. But the neighbors have fought them tooth and nail on every development. Guessing they think the T&C neighbors would be easier. Yeah....right.

It will be fun to see how this plays out. But I would not be holding my breath.
I know T & C has just completed renovations to their bar area and they're looking do more to the pool, tennis area and the Men's locker room, guessing they'll crunch whatever numbers need to be crunched and deny this. Won't be too many if any members that will be in favor
Thanks for this insight and viewpoint. This sheds another light on the topic.

On the other hand, as Bob said, why would they go public with this (did it actually? or is this a "leak"?) if it wasn't actually done?

If they batted around some figured and came to the conclusion "sorry, not even close", why even make an announcement? I do get the fiduciary part though, so perhaps it is as simple as that, maybe even legally required.
 

Thanks for this insight and viewpoint. This sheds another light on the topic.

On the other hand, as Bob said, why would they go public with this (did it actually? or is this a "leak"?) if it wasn't actually done?

If they batted around some figured and came to the conclusion "sorry, not even close", why even make an announcement? I do get the fiduciary part though, so perhaps it is as simple as that, maybe even legally required.
I'm guessing someone on the UST side of things leaked it to put pressure on and they had to respond. There was a embezzlement scandal a couple years ago and they know UST is going to keep trying to buy the land, so those are a couple of reasons to do their due diligence on this. This isn't the first time UST has thrown a proposal. The rumor is UST is about 90 million short of where there would be serious consideration. The Club would want 150 million and time to buy new land if there was a sale.
 

St. Thomas will need to get creative about this.

Drop a few million in the correct pockets to move forward with eminent domain.

Easier to buy a few people than it is to dig up $160 million.

From a public good standpoint, it's far better to have an institution of learning that is accessible to all than some elitist golf club.
 

St. Thomas will need to get creative about this.

Drop a few million in the correct pockets to move forward with eminent domain.

Easier to buy a few people than it is to dig up $160 million.

From a public good standpoint, it's far better to have an institution of learning that is accessible to all than some elitist golf club.
What the hell are you talking about with eminent domain?
 


St. Thomas will need to get creative about this.

Drop a few million in the correct pockets to move forward with eminent domain.

Easier to buy a few people than it is to dig up $160 million.

From a public good standpoint, it's far better to have an institution of learning that is accessible to all than some elitist golf club.
Perhaps barrister could pursue this route.

This seems right in his legal expertise wheelhouse.

Hahahaha
 
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St. Thomas will need to get creative about this.

Drop a few million in the correct pockets to move forward with eminent domain.

Easier to buy a few people than it is to dig up $160 million.

From a public good standpoint, it's far better to have an institution of learning that is accessible to all than some elitist golf club.
Except UST is a Private University dumbass
 


St. Thomas will need to get creative about this.

Drop a few million in the correct pockets to move forward with eminent domain.

Easier to buy a few people than it is to dig up $160 million.

From a public good standpoint, it's far better to have an institution of learning that is accessible to all than some elitist golf club.
If it were for a public institution, I could maybe see something like this, but UST is a private school.

EDIT: Fleckoff beat me to it
 



I'm guessing someone on the UST side of things leaked it to put pressure on and they had to respond. There was a embezzlement scandal a couple years ago and they know UST is going to keep trying to buy the land, so those are a couple of reasons to do their due diligence on this. This isn't the first time UST has thrown a proposal. The rumor is UST is about 90 million short of where there would be serious consideration. The Club would want 150 million and time to buy new land if there was a sale.
I wonder if they would consider a partial land sale and drop down to fewer holes? Of course that can kind of defeat the point of a golf club.
 


Cool idea for the school to look into for future athletic facilities. Lots of hoops to get through.
 

What the hell are you talking about with eminent domain?
That how the Nets got a new building in Brooklyn, a developer wanted property and had deep enough pockets to buy the team, get the property in Brooklyn, than sell the team and keep the excess property.
 



Except UST is a Private University dumbass

Sure.
But for enough money, you could probably convince a few people in charge to declare that the land is better used for an educational institution.

Maybe they need to get creative with some potential "solutions". Could always propose it be taken over for some public park or a new transit center, then last second, the plans fall through and it's sold to the highest bidder in a closed bid who happens to be St. Thomas.

Nothing is ever impossible when it comes to sticking money in people's pockets.

You might not need eminent domain, just a strong enough threat of it usually will do wonders.
 

I'm guessing someone on the UST side of things leaked it to put pressure on and they had to respond. There was a embezzlement scandal a couple years ago and they know UST is going to keep trying to buy the land, so those are a couple of reasons to do their due diligence on this. This isn't the first time UST has thrown a proposal. The rumor is UST is about 90 million short of where there would be serious consideration. The Club would want 150 million and time to buy new land if there was a sale.
It's not that nice of a golf course as far as country clubs are concerned. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 

Sure.
But for enough money, you could probably convince a few people in charge to declare that the land is better used for an educational institution.

Maybe they need to get creative with some potential "solutions". Could always propose it be taken over for some public park or a new transit center, then last second, the plans fall through and it's sold to the highest bidder in a closed bid who happens to be St. Thomas.

Nothing is ever impossible when it comes to sticking money in people's pockets.

You might not need eminent domain, just a strong enough threat of it usually will do wonders.
You clearly don't understand what Eminent Domain means. Take the L and move on
 

Lake Monster is pretty close, but another brewery is always welcome.

in response to some of the other posts regarding Med school-- UST started the nursing school, so growing that to a medical school seems reasonable

the Minneapolis campus could be shut down and moved to the main campus also- i think that is mostly the law school and education program and grad classes/space.
Not going to lie I didn't know they started a nursing program. I'm kind of a UST hater but thats kind of cool at the same time.

I would assume they could make an absurd amount of money off of the sale of their downtown buildings if that was their choice. Would certainly help offset some of the cost of the 61 mil.
 

St. Thomas will need to get creative about this.

Drop a few million in the correct pockets to move forward with eminent domain.

Easier to buy a few people than it is to dig up $160 million.

From a public good standpoint, it's far better to have an institution of learning that is accessible to all than some elitist golf club.
Golf = waste of real estate
 




Well, what is plan B?

I still think the obvious thing about their move to DI is that they need to focus on bball.

Still think they should pull a Pitt and build major basketball arena and practice facilities on the current football stadium and track. There are many nearby places that it seems like they could reasonably strike a deal with to pay rent and share facilities. Mac, Concordia, SP Central, etc.
 

Not going to lie I didn't know they started a nursing program. I'm kind of a UST hater but thats kind of cool at the same time.

I would assume they could make an absurd amount of money off of the sale of their downtown buildings if that was their choice. Would certainly help offset some of the cost of the 61 mil.
With the amount of people being able to work from home now, the downtown non-residential market is pretty cold. That said, for the same reasons, the need to have a campus downtown is also diminishing. But I think they keep the law school and the business school downtown.

UST isn't concerned with the 61 mil price tag.
 

With the amount of people being able to work from home now, the downtown non-residential market is pretty cold. That said, for the same reasons, the need to have a campus downtown is also diminishing. But I think they keep the law school and the business school downtown.

UST isn't concerned with the 61 mil price tag.
Spot on. If they are concerned with 61 million they aren’t expanding
 

I think when things finally stabilize you'll have a lot of people working (*cough*"working"*cough*) from home on Mon/Fri and going in like they used to Tue-Thur. That's what we'll get out of it all. Which was being done somewhat before, but will probably be much more the norm. As will the normalization of if someone randomly needs to work from home any other day of the week.

Saw on the news the other night that DT Mpls is starting to pick back up a bit.
 

I think when things finally stabilize you'll have a lot of people working (*cough*"working"*cough*) from home on Mon/Fri and going in like they used to Tue-Thur. That's what we'll get out of it all. Which was being done somewhat before, but will probably be much more the norm. As will the normalization of if someone randomly needs to work from home any other day of the week.

Saw on the news the other night that DT Mpls is starting to pick back up a bit.
Yeah, I know a few companies are going back but I think there will be a downtick in the number of people who have to go into an office. I hope it does come back because the entire economic ecosystem of downtowns is pretty fragile. It relies on pretty much full utilization of a lunch crowd, parking crowd, etc. It doesn't take much for a vibrant downtown to start looking like DT Cleveland or Pittsburgh.
 


With the amount of people being able to work from home now, the downtown non-residential market is pretty cold. That said, for the same reasons, the need to have a campus downtown is also diminishing. But I think they keep the law school and the business school downtown.

UST isn't concerned with the 61 mil price tag.
Definitely a good point, I think a couple of good sized employers have left as well. You are probably right, someone else had mentioned that one of their selling points is being able to work and go to school downtown so could be tough to pull out and bad timing.

Call me an idiot but where does the money come from? I have a minimal understanding of how university finances/endowments/etc work tbh.
 

Not going to lie I didn't know they started a nursing program. I'm kind of a UST hater but thats kind of cool at the same time.

I would assume they could make an absurd amount of money off of the sale of their downtown buildings if that was their choice. Would certainly help offset some of the cost of the 61 mil.
You have absolutely no, nada, none idea about the $$$$$ it takes to start and operate a medical school.
In any event T&C told St Thomas NO.
 

Yeah, I know a few companies are going back but I think there will be a downtick in the number of people who have to go into an office. I hope it does come back because the entire economic ecosystem of downtowns is pretty fragile. It relies on pretty much full utilization of a lunch crowd, parking crowd, etc. It doesn't take much for a vibrant downtown to start looking like DT Cleveland or Pittsburgh.
Something that will help is that there has been a focus on downtown housing for 10-15 years already. It is less of a commuter downtown than it used to be (though it still is)
 




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