So when should we expect a winning team?

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Costa Rican Gopher

Costa Rican Gopher

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Last year was a house cleaning season where expectations were low (too low imo). It's pretty clear that we've thrown in the towel on this season (I bet OVER 6 total wins this season, anyone want to buy the bet from me?). Next year we'll have a veteran offensive line, experienced WR's, Kill/Limey's hand picked QB at the helm w/ some experience & we've taken anyone with a pulse off the non conference schedule. Is it fair to expect a winning season next year? If not, in what year/season do we start demanding wins?

I'm not suggesting we should have kept Brew (let me stress that....NOT SUGGESTING BREW WAS BETTER THAN KILL!!), but just for reference Brew took over a team with less talent than Kill & had us in bowl games his 2nd & 3rd years. There was a lot to not like about Brew but he never blamed the players talent level, the Mason staff of the schedule. People were calling for Brew's head his 1st year as a coach. Then people wanted him fired while we were 7-0 his 2nd year. Then they wanted him fired his 3rd year (another bowl game), then he was fired before he could complete his 4th year. If Brew got us to 2 bowl games & didn't earn 4 complete seasons, how patient should we be with Kill?
 

I've been saying since Spring Ball that this team is built for next year (and beyond).

I expect them to win 8 games next year, if not more. Virtually the entire offense is returning, many will be 3rd (even 4th) year players/starters. The defense has been playing a HUGE number of players this year with most of them returning next year.

Anything short of 7-8 wins next year, for me, would be a big disappointment. Next year will the the first year in recent memory that they field an "real" offensive line with some Juniors and Seniors. This team will score some points next year.
 

Unless we shock the world and sign on to play a top opponent in the spot we paid to get out of with UNC I think next year the minimum expectation should be 7-5 (4-0 non conf, 3-5 conf). There is a ton of experience returning and it will be Kill's third year in the system. Winning 3 conference games should not be a monumental task in year 3.
 


Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I've been saying since Spring Ball that this team is built for next year (and beyond).

I expect them to win 8 games next year, if not more. Virtually the entire offense is returning, many will be 3rd (even 4th) year players/starters. The defense has been playing a HUGE number of players this year with most of them returning next year.

Anything short of 7-8 wins next year, for me, would be a big disappointment. Next year will the the first year in recent memory that they field an "real" offensive line with some Juniors and Seniors. This team will score some points next year.
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I agree Ogee. Next year, experience will not be a factor at OL & WR.

Next year's O-Line will likely be veteran heavy...

LT- E Olson (Sr)
LG- T Olson (Jr)
C- Z Epping (Jr)
RG- F Bush (Jr)
RT- J Campion (22yo Soph)

The WR's will be experienced....

AJ Barker (Sr)
Crawford-Tufts (Jr)
Isaac Fruechte (Jr)
Marcus Jones (Jr)
Derek Engel (Sr)
Andre McDonald (Soph)
Jamel Harbison (R-Fr)
 


28735098.jpg



Everyone picks apart whether or not Kill inherited a more talented team in 3....2.....1....
 


I set the line at 5.5 this year and I still think that is where it belongs. I'd go 6.5 next year, with 2014 looking like the year for a run if everyone is healthy and eligible. It should be 9-4 or bust in 2014. The lineup is built for that year.

That said 4-9 is going to be a disappointment. I mean we won the games we should be winning, not happening at the end of the Brewster era, but we wanted more. I can shrug my shoulder with 5-7, if Nelson, Williams, McDonald look like they improved knowing the OL and tackling on defense needs work for next year.

Bottom line, we can't keep firing coaches. Kill will likely get four, minimum three more years to get it done. That topic shouldn't even be discussed at this point. Brewster comparisons are ridiculous. Remember losing to the IAA teams and mid-majors? How about the penalties, academics, personal fouls, walking off the field skipping the rouser? Kill has at least established discipline in the program. He will be on the hot seat if he isn't getting it done in two years, and fired in three or four if it isn't working.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I agree Ogee. Next year, experience will not be a factor at OL & WR.

Next year's O-Line will likely be veteran heavy...

LT- E Olson (Sr)
LG- T Olson (Jr)
C- Z Epping (Jr)
RG- F Bush (Jr)
RT- J Campion (22yo Soph)

The WR's will be experienced....

AJ Barker (Sr)
Crawford-Tufts (Jr)
Isaac Fruechte (Jr)
Marcus Jones (Jr)
Derek Engel (Sr)
Andre McDonald (Soph)
Jamel Harbison (R-Fr)

Didn't we get a transfer from Ohio State... Bobek? I'm sure he will factor into next year's line play.
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Looking at 3-4 wins next season. This year I think I picked a topside of 5, which is looking less and less likely. I never want a coach to have the kids play for next year. Play for RIGHT NOW. Otherwise the Seniors get robbed. In fact all the classes get robbed. Play like there is no tomorrow. Play to win today. Play to be the best you can possibly be.
 

"Didn't we get a transfer from Ohio State... Bobek? I'm sure he will factor into next year's line play. "

This guy just could be the diamond in the rough that no one knows anything about, except for the Coaching Staff and the Team.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Brew was the coach before Kill, who else would we possibly compare him to?
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You misunderstood. I have no problem with the comparison, but the board typically explodes whenever you even put Brewster or Kill in the same sentence.
 

Gopherprof said:
You misunderstood. I have no problem with the comparison, but the board typically explodes whenever you even put Brewster or Kill in the same sentence.
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I personally think a mixture of brew and kill could be a dominate coach. Kill is better at running the program from X's and O's but brew was great at selling the program and so far in kills run I would say brew was a better recruiter. Brews problem was lack of vision. He didn't know what he wanted the team to be or how to get there. He just assumed if he brought the big dogs to the U their talent would correct what he lacked in running the program. I want kill to have success, bad! I don't want us to be the school that hires and fires and starts over every 5 yrs.
 



lakesgopher said:
I personally think a mixture of brew and kill could be a dominate coach. Kill is better at running the program from X's and O's but brew was great at selling the program and so far in kills run I would say brew was a better recruiter. Brews problem was lack of vision. He didn't know what he wanted the team to be or how to get there. He just assumed if he brought the big dogs to the U their talent would correct what he lacked in running the program. I want kill to have success, bad! I don't want us to be the school that hires and fires and starts over every 5 yrs.
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The good news is that if you don't count Gray and do count Wettstein, Minnesota only has 7 senior starters. The bad news is that they team they lost to on Saturday has only 6.
 

Dean S said:
Looking at 3-4 wins next season. This year I think I picked a topside of 5, which is looking less and less likely. I never want a coach to have the kids play for next year. Play for RIGHT NOW. Otherwise the Seniors get robbed. In fact all the classes get robbed. Play like there is no tomorrow. Play to win today. Play to be the best you can possibly be.
Click to expand...

When you say your are looking at 3-4 next season, are you referring to in conference only? If that is an overall record, I would be very disappointed with only 3 or 4 next year.
 

Going into this year, I wanted us to be in more games this year and win 5 games. I thought making a bowl game would have been a nice surprise and winning 2 games would have been a huge disappointment.

Now, I think we can expect a bowl game next year. I think 7-5 or 6-6 is about right.
 

Gopherprof said:
You misunderstood. I have no problem with the comparison, but the board typically explodes whenever you even put Brewster or Kill in the same sentence.
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That's because you must trust in everything that Kill is doing and Brew was a snakeoil salesman who conned the U.
 

I still hold out hope for 6 wins this season, with the possibility of 7 next year.

So in response to the threads original question, I say barring any unforseen defections or major injures - 2013.
 



lakesgopher said:
Brew didn't hire himself if u are going to blame at least get the right person
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My post was sarcasm. I was sarcastically trying to sum up the entire Kill vs. Brew riot that breaks out when any comparisons are made.
 


Last time I checked we still had a winning record. Will it hold up? Probably not. A winning record in the B1G this year, of course not. That said, the only thing we should be demanding at this point in time is loyalty to the program. Either your in or out. Count me in and "F" everyone else and especially fat patti reusse.

Go Gophers!
 

Just because you are "in" doesn't mean you have to agree with or go with every decision a coach makes. I am for anything that turns this program into a winning one, but I have some concerns about things I see with the current coaching staff. I'm still going to support the team and root like hell for them to win each Saturday. Some fans try to make it out to be all or nothing. You can be loyal to the program without supporting every move the people in charge make.
 

I said after seeing and what Kill was proposing and doing last yr. 2013 we would be competitive and 2014 we would be challanging for the top spots. I stick by that.
 

So far we have taken the redshirts off ten kids, this is a negative for the pgm, but had to be done. Would be nice to get the pgm to a point where we can havee most of the starters as 4th and 5 th yr kids.
 

We need to find some linebackers. Like Simoni Laurence type Juco start on day 1 linebackers.

An interesting contrast from Saturday.

Ethan Armstrong from Wisconsin is a walk on linebacker. RS in '09, ST in '10, two starts in '11, scholarship & opening day starter in '12.
http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/armstrong_ethan00.html

Mike Rallis was a walk on d-back. Awarded a scholarship in fall camp. '08 ST & safety, starts bowl game. '09 breaks leg & RS, '10 starts six games at linebacker, '11 started all 12 games on the outside, '12 forced to start out of position in the middle.
http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/rallis_mike00.html

Both walk-ons but the guy who plays for the Gophers forced to start a game as a true freshman, moves up to outside LB where he's undersized and starts 18 games there over the next two seasons, then moves to the middle where he's playing out of position and is again probably too small.

Contrast with the guy from UW who gets to RS his freshman year, doesn't make his first start until his sophomore year when he makes two starts. Moves into the starting lineup his junior year & is only then awarded a scholarship. Is playing the right positon and is playing alongside two players who have a combined 30+ starts.

I think this is probably emblematic of the oft mentioned depth & youth challenges.
 

Dean S said:
Looking at 3-4 wins next season. This year I think I picked a topside of 5, which is looking less and less likely. I never want a coach to have the kids play for next year. Play for RIGHT NOW. Otherwise the Seniors get robbed. In fact all the classes get robbed. Play like there is no tomorrow. Play to win today. Play to be the best you can possibly be.
Click to expand...
3-4 wins next year? Unbelievable.
 

littlebigboy said:
So far we have taken the redshirts off ten kids, this is a negative for the pgm, but had to be done. Would be nice to get the pgm to a point where we can havee most of the starters as 4th and 5 th yr kids.
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Now, I didn't like that Nelson's RS was pulled (unless it was due to injury). However, Kill is in a tough spot when it comes to RSing players. He needs to build some sort of equity amongst the classes. We want all of our classes to be about the same size so that you never have a SR class of 4. Now, Kill was only able to RS a few players last year.

Of the players still here:
Montgomery, McAvoy, McAvoy, Campion, Bjorklund, Westerhaus, Matilus, Bush and Cockran were all RS.

Part of us playing so many guys is to spread out the classes a little bit. Now, guys like McDonald, Nelson, Williams, Maye, Ekpe and Plsek all join that class.

If you notice, that class (the 11 RS and the 12 True FR) has quite a bit of balance as far as an entire class:
QB: Nelson
RB: Williams / Maye
WR: McDonald (planned on Harbison)
TE: Plsek
OL: McAvoy, McAvoy, Bush, Bjorklund (W/O: Christenson and Heifort)
DL: Cockran, Ekpe
LB: Matilus, Westerhaus
DB: Montgomery

I'm not sure who will pan out and who won't, but that's a pretty balanced class that will be SRs together.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Now, I didn't like that Nelson's RS was pulled (unless it was due to injury). However, Kill is in a tough spot when it comes to RSing players. He needs to build some sort of equity amongst the classes. We want all of our classes to be about the same size so that you never have a SR class of 4. Now, Kill was only able to RS a few players last year.

Of the players still here:
Montgomery, McAvoy, McAvoy, Campion, Bjorklund, Westerhaus, Matilus, Bush and Cockran were all RS.

Part of us playing so many guys is to spread out the classes a little bit. Now, guys like McDonald, Nelson, Williams, Maye, Ekpe and Plsek all join that class.

If you notice, that class (the 11 RS and the 12 True FR) has quite a bit of balance as far as an entire class:
QB: Nelson
RB: Williams / Maye
WR: McDonald (planned on Harbison)
TE: Plsek
OL: McAvoy, McAvoy, Bush, Bjorklund (W/O: Christenson and Heifort)
DL: Cockran, Ekpe
LB: Matilus, Westerhaus
DB: Montgomery

I'm not sure who will pan out and who won't, but that's a pretty balanced class that will be SRs together.
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If the offensive line does not improve drastically so it allows some form of a consistent running game by a running back, this team has no chance. None.

The other thing that is needed is linebackers. Lots of good ones. The last two games, with NW and WI running right up the middle, is maddening.

Just my observations.
 

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