So many people r saying it was consensual, what about this?

[Some Day...Maybe]

"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.








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[DoubleAlum]

Most GH'ers don't care to consider this. To them, she willingly screwed all of them.

 

[Taji34]

Most consider the fact that this wasn't on the Djam video as that it didn't happen.

 

[Block M]

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.


Agreed. I, like others hoped this would go away. I, like others badly want the team to win and be relevant. They were very close this year and did us proud on the field for the most part. However, this situation is quickly rotting the foundation of program and giving the U a terrible black eye. Hoping it passes, that cooler heads prevail, and that the program comes out better for its cleansing.





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[Hates Monikers]

Everybody has acknowledged from the start at this was a he-said she-said case. If it's as cut and dried as the article makes it appear, there would've been charges. She initially said the sex with Djam was consensual, for example.

It doesn't mean she's making anything up and the guys are innocent. It's just not that clear.

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[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.


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You're making a lot of dangerous assumptions. The problem that people have with this is that it seems the players are being judged extralegally by a standard of guilt that is far less than stringent than the rule of law. It is not illegal to have consensual group sex with a woman. You may find it morally repressible but it thats your opinion. It doesn't automatically mean the players are guilty.

If they raped her, the deserve all the negative consequences they get. However, we need to do better than assume they're guilty because they were accused.

 

[DeathClutch]

What about the video evidence?

What about the alleged victim pleading the 5th in the restraining order hearing?

What about the alleged victim coming to a settlement to where the players only have to stay 20 feet away and also include a clause that keeps you from being sued in the future?

There are two sides to everything. I am in no way accusing the alleged victim of making a false statement, I am just providing facts to the counter argument.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your barking up the wrong tree, Some Day. I have been on this board all day and can attest to the fact that there is only a handful of posters who agree with you. It is painfully obvious that most GopherHolers believe that the players did absolutely nothing wrong by having group sex with a girl who was drunk on 5 or 6 vodkas. To them is is what young guys do and it is all part of the college experience.

 

[Spoofin]

"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.








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Pretty sure the tipoff that she claimed it wasn't consensual was when she accused them to the police. This could have happened. It could have not happened. That is why there was an investigation dummy.


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[minny01]

Apparently, we are reading different articles because in the one that I read, the authorities determined that it was not rape, but consensual sex.

What was omitted in the article, was that during the restraining hearing, the woman pleaded the "fifth" on the stand. Why, because her original story may have had a lot of fabrication? Also, when they agreed on a settlement, she said that her intent was to not hurt anyone, but to feel safe.

This ruling comes from a department that is trying to make a name for themselves and is what hurts the people who truly deserve their support.

 

[GoodasGold]

I'm all in favor of bodycams

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

Your barking up the wrong tree, Some Day. I have been on this board all day and can attest to the fact that there is only a handful of posters who agree with you. It is painfully obvious that most GopherHolers believe that the players did absolutely nothing wrong by having group sex with a girl who was drunk on 5 or 6 vodkas. To them is is what young guys do and it is all part of the college experience.

The point is nobody knows. You don't know. I don't know. the EOAA doesn't know. Stop acting like you know what happened. You don't drastically punish people because something may or may not have taken place. Its much better to let a guilty person walk than condemn and innocent person.

 

[Ewert86PC]

You're making a lot of dangerous assumptions. The problem that people have with this is that it seems the players are being judged extralegally by a standard of guilt that is far less than stringent than the rule of law. It is not illegal to have consensual group sex with a woman. You may find it morally repressible but it thats your opinion. It doesn't automatically mean the players are guilty.

If they raped her, the deserve all the negative consequences they get. However, we need to do better than assume they're guilty because they were accused.

What about the players who were included because they were simply in the same building where this occurred and the one who claimed to not be there at all, but was included because the committee thought that he was lying?

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[Bob_Loblaw]

Your barking up the wrong tree, Some Day. I have been on this board all day and can attest to the fact that there is only a handful of posters who agree with you. It is painfully obvious that most GopherHolers believe that the players did absolutely nothing wrong by having group sex with a girl who was drunk on 5 or 6 vodkas. To them is is what young guys do and it is all part of the college experience.

No, you've been saying that even if it was consensual, they should be punished. That is what people were yelling at you about.

But we get it, you don't think women are adults.

 

[Iceland12]

"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

And here's the part you left out.

On Sept. 8, police investigators Eric Faulconer and Matthew Wente interviewed Djam. He acknowledged having sex with the woman, but was adamant that it was consensual. As proof, he played them three separate videos, totaling about 90 seconds, taken that morning.

During an 8-second clip, the woman “appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time,” Wente wrote in his report. After viewing two additional videos, he wrote “the sexual contact appears entirely consensual.”

Police later interviewed four other players, who each said the sex was consensual.

On Sept. 30, Wente sent the investigation to the Hennepin County Attorney’s office for possible prosecution. In it, he wrote about the videos, “at no time does she indicate that she is in distress or that the contact is unwelcome or nonconsensual.”

On Oct. 3 the attorney’s office announced there would be no charges.

Afterward, the alleged victim filed a restraining order against six of the players, asking that they be made to stay away from the stadium. After a judge granted the orders, the woman dropped a petition against one of the players.

Hutton, the players’ attorney, appealed, setting up a hearing where the woman testified for several hours. The hearing eventually ended in a settlement — the restraining order would be dropped, but the players still had to stay 20 feet away from the woman and have no contact with her. The two sides also agreed that neither would be able to file a lawsuit.

“I’m glad this is over,” the student read in a statement after the hearing. “This has never been about punishing anyone, I just wanted to feel safe. Because of this resolution that we came to, now I do.”

Claeys and Coyle briefly addressed the matter separately Wednesday. Both said they were prohibited from discussing details of the university investigation.

 

[KGF]

I appreciate that the players believe in their teammates. BUT, everyone should know that gang sex, consensual or not, is completely F'ng stupid and just begging for trouble. A girl may stupidly get herself in a situation that she can't control, but if at any point, even after the fact, she decides that she was raped, the male participants are doomed.
Coach Kill used to constantly remind players to stay out of trouble, make wise decisions, etc. If Claeys wasn't doing the same, it's on him too. And, the parents of these players for not telling their kids that situations like this occur and to be smart.
IMO, Claeys is trying to play it both ways, say yes to his boss and support his players. Claeys is in way over his head. He wasn't prepared, may never have been, to be a head coach.
The administration's hands are tied. They legally can't give all the details to satisfy the fans and they will not be dictated to by student-athletes, no matter how altruistic their motives.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Your barking up the wrong tree, Some Day. I have been on this board all day and can attest to the fact that there is only a handful of posters who agree with you. It is painfully obvious that most GopherHolers believe that the players did absolutely nothing wrong by having group sex with a girl who was drunk on 5 or 6 vodkas. To them is is what young guys do and it is all part of the college experience.

Methinks though doth protest too much. Art thou upset that thine invitation did not arrive?

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[westcoastgopher11]

"I was shoving people off of me, they kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

http://m.startribune.com/sex-assaul...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

If you think Kaler or Coyle are going to back down from this you are crazy. The players who engaged with her sexually, by. Good riddance. Tough to prove who was spectating, cheering on, most likely the 1 year suspension guys.

The rest of this team would be wise to come to their senses and play football. They're in the heat of the moment now, but they'll regret not playing later on. I doubt Kaler or Coyle yank their scholarships if they boycott.

This whole scenario does exactly what the title IX stuff intended, send the message that disrespect for women will not be tolerated, particularly when it comes to sexual assault. You don't go to the hospital immediately after and file a police report if you consented to having sex with 5 guys. You don't consent and then all of a sudden put yourself through all the sh^t you have to go through by coming forward.

the police and hennepin county attorneys saw all the evidence and didnt press charges - any DA who thought this had ANY shot of going ANYWHERE wouldve snapped it up in a minute with all the ingredients for a blockbuster media show (major university, student athletes, black guys and a white girl) i mean there are a million angles to play.

they saw all that laid before them and passed - that speaks volumes

 

[Mick Turition]

I don't plan on watching the video but I know the police have watched it and.....no charges filed. If four black guys did NOT have video evidence of consensual sex with a white girl who later claimed she was raped they would all be in jail right now.

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

I appreciate that the players believe in their teammates. BUT, everyone should know that gang sex, consensual or not, is completely F'ng stupid and just begging for trouble. A girl may stupidly get herself in a situation that she can't control, but if at any point, even after the fact, she decides that she was raped, the male participants are doomed.
Coach Kill used to constantly remind players to stay out of trouble, make wise decisions, etc. If Claeys wasn't doing the same, it's on him too. And, the parents of these players for not telling their kids that situations like this occur and to be smart.
IMO, Claeys is trying to play it both ways, say yes to his boss and support his players. Claeys is in way over his head. He wasn't prepared, may never have been, to be a head coach.
The administration's hands are tied. They legally can't give all the details to satisfy the fans and they will not be dictated to by student-athletes, no matter how altruistic their motives.

You deserve to be punished like this for raping someone, not for being stupid.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

Everybody has acknowledged from the start at this was a he-said she-said case. If it's as cut and dried as the article makes it appear, there would've been charges. She initially said the sex with Djam was consensual, for example.

It doesn't mean she's making anything up and the guys are innocent. It's just not that clear.

You are absolutely correct. But you don't need absolute proof to determine that what the player's did violated the Student Code of Conduct. That requires a much lesser standard of proof. Did any of the player's lie to the police or U investigator's? Were they drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana? Were they violating any Athletics Department or football team rules? We don't know and probably will never find out. But the U believes it had sufficient evidence to impose the penalties it did. People should be willing to take that at face value unless and until the U is overturned on appeal. Without knowledge of all the evidence it is unreasonable to take the position that U was wrong to do what it did.

 

[KGF]

You deserve to be punished like this for raping someone, not for being stupid.

No one can know if it was truly rape or consensual sex. The point is that it doesn't matter b/c no one outside of the people there can know. But people who weren't there are the ones that will dole out punishment or not, so they will punish you as if it was not consensual.

 

[GophersInIowa]

No, you've been saying that even if it was consensual, they should be punished. That is what people were yelling at you about.

But we get it, you don't think women are adults.

You're probably the 20th person to try to explain this to upnorth but he/she continues to just ignore it.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

I don't plan on watching the video but I know the police have watched it and.....no charges filed. If four black guys did NOT have video evidence of consensual sex with a white girl who later claimed she was raped they would all be in jail right now.

It is my understanding that the three videos didn't last for more than 2 or 3 minutes. What do you think was happening during the rest of the 90 minutes that players where having sex with the woman?

 

[GoodasGold]

It is my understanding that the three videos didn't last for more than 2 or 3 minutes. What do you think was happening during the rest of the 90 minutes that players where having sex with the woman?

Witty repartee. What do you do when you mount your woman

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Pretty sure the tipoff that she claimed it wasn't consensual was when she accused them to the police. This could have happened. It could have not happened. That is why there was an investigation dummy.


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Oooohhhh dummy? That's a good one spoofy! I think I rattled your cage there a little buddy. It's ok.


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[GophersInIowa]

You are absolutely correct. But you don't need absolute proof to determine that what the player's did violated the Student Code of Conduct. That requires a much lesser standard of proof. Did any of the player's lie to the police or U investigator's? Were they drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana? Were they violating any Athletics Department or football team rules? We don't know and probably will never find out. But the U believes it had sufficient evidence to impose the penalties it did. People should be willing to take that at face value unless and until the U is overturned on appeal. Without knowledge of all the evidence it is unreasonable to take the position that U was wrong to do what it did.

Universities are getting sued across the country because of similar situations. I think it is okay to question these type of internal investigations.

 

[Hates Monikers]

You are absolutely correct. But you don't need absolute proof to determine that what the player's did violated the Student Code of Conduct. That requires a much lesser standard of proof. Did any of the player's lie to the police or U investigator's? Were they drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana? Were they violating any Athletics Department or football team rules? We don't know and probably will never find out. But the U believes it had sufficient evidence to impose the penalties it did. I willing to take that at face value unless the U is overturned on appeal. Without knowledge of all the evidence it is totally unreasonable to take the position that U was wrong to do what it did.

Look, you and I don't agree in this. That's okay. But to anyone supporting the players you acknowledge we don't know what happened. But you're certain that the school must be right, even though we don't know what happened. It doesn't work that way.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

You're making a lot of dangerous assumptions. The problem that people have with this is that it seems the players are being judged extralegally by a standard of guilt that is far less than stringent than the rule of law. It is not illegal to have consensual group sex with a woman. You may find it morally repressible but it thats your opinion. It doesn't automatically mean the players are guilty.

If they raped her, the deserve all the negative consequences they get. However, we need to do better than assume they're guilty because they were accused.

It may not be illegal to have group sex with a consenting woman and it probably isn't a violation of the Student Code of Conduct. But other things that the players did that night might have violated the C of C and that is what the U used to punish the players. We need to do better than assume that the U wasn't being fair and impartial during their investigation.

 

[Sportsfan24]

I appreciate that the players believe in their teammates. BUT, everyone should know that gang sex, consensual or not, is completely F'ng stupid and just begging for trouble. A girl may stupidly get herself in a situation that she can't control, but if at any point, even after the fact, she decides that she was raped, the male participants are doomed.
Coach Kill used to constantly remind players to stay out of trouble, make wise decisions, etc. If Claeys wasn't doing the same, it's on him too. And, the parents of these players for not telling their kids that situations like this occur and to be smart.
IMO, Claeys is trying to play it both ways, say yes to his boss and support his players. Claeys is in way over his head. He wasn't prepared, may never have been, to be a head coach.
The administration's hands are tied. They legally can't give all the details to satisfy the fans and they will not be dictated to by student-athletes, no matter how altruistic their motives.

Gang sex? How about group sex also known as an orgy? Why do multiple black males always have to be referred to as a gang? Hell, I have never heard the term "gang" sex. And how could you possibly know what the players parents told their sons.

Also, why is it always a white girl that gets taken "advantage" of??