Shooters

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touchdownvikings

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I was perusing a Michigan basketball discussion board, and several of the fans there were grumbling about Michigan's inability to shoot - i.e., as a phenomena separate and apart from defensive pressure applied by the Gophers. Their point was that this particular year's squad is simply not terribly adept at shooting. And that the Gophers responded by simply laying off and packing the lane, because we knew they couldn't shoot (but absolutely could get inside if given the opportunity). I noticed this too during the game and agree with the observation made by those particular fans.

In past years, this was the Gophers problem: the Gophers just couldn't shoot. And if you just can't shoot - and if everyone knows it - then no amount of passing or strategy really helps. Everyone just packs the lane and that is that.

Interestingly, I heard an interview with Coach Johnson where he said that while there are many things he looks for in a recruit, the ability to shoot the ball is primary. We're seeing the benefit of that. A team that can shoot has many strategic options. A team that cannot shoot can be thwarted on most nights with one simple strategy. Pitino ran into this situation year after year. Now it's Michigan's turn.

Johnson has erased the futility of seeking to identify a "correct" offensive system in the face of a circumstance that presents the availability of no such system. He found shooters. The rest can be coached.
 

Shooters shoot is true.
Michigan couldn’t shoot and didn’t get to the lane/rim/free throw line enough to counter.

they either had a bad game plan, bad execution, or we had a good game plan, good execution.
most likely a combo of all 4
 


touchdownvikings said:
I was perusing a Michigan basketball discussion board, and several of the fans there were grumbling about Michigan's inability to shoot - i.e., as a phenomena separate and apart from defensive pressure applied by the Gophers. Their point was that this particular year's squad is simply not terribly adept at shooting. And that the Gophers responded by simply laying off and packing the lane, because we knew they couldn't shoot (but absolutely could get inside if given the opportunity). I noticed this too during the game and agree with the observation made by those particular fans.

In past years, this was the Gophers problem: the Gophers just couldn't shoot. And if you just can't shoot - and if everyone knows it - then no amount of passing or strategy really helps. Everyone just packs the lane and that is that.

Interestingly, I heard an interview with Coach Johnson where he said that while there are many things he looks for in a recruit, the ability to shoot the ball is primary. We're seeing the benefit of that. A team that can shoot has many strategic options. A team that cannot shoot can be thwarted on most nights with one simple strategy. Pitino ran into this situation year after year. Now it's Michigan's turn.

Johnson has erased the futility of seeking to identify a "correct" offensive system in the face of a circumstance that presents the availability of no such system. He found shooters. The rest can be coached.
Click to expand...

I don't think that has anything to do with Michigan in particular. With the lack of size of the Gophers...I think that we are going to be forcing the ball outside and making teams beat us with outside shooting. Levels the playing field.
 

touchdownvikings said:
I was perusing a Michigan basketball discussion board, and several of the fans there were grumbling about Michigan's inability to shoot - i.e., as a phenomena separate and apart from defensive pressure applied by the Gophers. Their point was that this particular year's squad is simply not terribly adept at shooting. And that the Gophers responded by simply laying off and packing the lane, because we knew they couldn't shoot (but absolutely could get inside if given the opportunity). I noticed this too during the game and agree with the observation made by those particular fans.

In past years, this was the Gophers problem: the Gophers just couldn't shoot. And if you just can't shoot - and if everyone knows it - then no amount of passing or strategy really helps. Everyone just packs the lane and that is that.

Interestingly, I heard an interview with Coach Johnson where he said that while there are many things he looks for in a recruit, the ability to shoot the ball is primary. We're seeing the benefit of that. A team that can shoot has many strategic options. A team that cannot shoot can be thwarted on most nights with one simple strategy. Pitino ran into this situation year after year. Now it's Michigan's turn.

Johnson has erased the futility of seeking to identify a "correct" offensive system in the face of a circumstance that presents the availability of no such system. He found shooters. The rest can be coached.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think Howard is a good coach, but I'm not entirely certain he gets it to the same extent as Johnson. His recruiting is great so far, but he doesn't really recruit the kind of guys who play a similar style to how he played last year.

If you get a chance to watch the game, watch our guards sagging on their guards. You can't have that. It's impossible to have spacing when no one is afraid of most of your players shooting.

Howard's recruiting class is fantastic and I think this is largely growing pains with a young team but it'll be interesting to see what his teams look like this year going forward. I think they'll likely look more like Izzo's than Bielein's. I think ours (hopefully IMO), look more like Bielein's.
 



I did notice when Ben was assembling this group of transfers, that they all could be classified as scorers, and seem like guys who can make their own shot.

With Pitino we seemed to have a few guys who could shoot when open, but couldn't create their own. But also, the offense didn't share the ball enough to provide guys opportunities to shoot.

Having four different people in double figures can sure help an offense. Loewe and Stephen's hadn't scored a lot leading into MI, but both have the ability.

Against Miss St, we had 5 people hit double figures. That's good basketball.
 

Face The Facts said:
I did notice when Ben was assembling this group of transfers, that they all could be classified as scorers, and seem like guys who can make their own shot.

With Pitino we seemed to have a few guys who could shoot when open, but couldn't create their own. But also, the offense didn't share the ball enough to provide guys opportunities to shoot.

Having four different people in double figures can sure help an offense. Loewe and Stephen's hadn't scored a lot leading into MI, but both have the ability.

Against Miss St, we had 5 people hit double figures. That's good basketball.
Click to expand...
They both can dribble a bit, move without the ball, and can shoot if left open. In other words, they need to be defended. Even if you aren't a great scorer, if you can do those things, it really opens things up for the guys who are more pure scorers (Battle and Willis).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They both can dribble a bit, move without the ball, and can shoot if left open. In other words, they need to be defended. Even if you aren't a great scorer, if you can do those things, it really opens things up for the guys who are more pure scorers (Battle and Willis).
Click to expand...
Agree.
A little bit off track, but Loewe, Stephens and Sutherlin appear as if they will play defense until they collapse.
 




Face The Facts said:
I did notice when Ben was assembling this group of transfers, that they all could be classified as scorers, and seem like guys who can make their own shot.

With Pitino we seemed to have a few guys who could shoot when open, but couldn't create their own. But also, the offense didn't share the ball enough to provide guys opportunities to shoot.

Having four different people in double figures can sure help an offense. Loewe and Stephen's hadn't scored a lot leading into MI, but both have the ability.

Against Miss St, we had 5 people hit double figures. That's good basketball.
Click to expand...
Bingo!

This is one of the major differences between BenBall versus PitinoBall.

Willis, Battle, Sutherlin, Loewe and Stephens are all examples of your expert analysis: But also, the offense didn't share the ball enough to provide guys opportunities to shoot. BJ has put together a system that allows our guys to be effective and recognize when to exploit their skills.

BJ's players are experienced and know how to recognize when to shoot and when to pass. Willis and others are very adept at recognizing when to take it to the hoop rather than Carr who forced the issue and usually put up an uncontrolled hope, prayer and dive. I'm still amazed how he did it. Our guys rarely hit the deck.

I don't doubt for a minute that Carr would have thrived with BenBall. The problem would have been his willingness to give it all on D.

 

Use to drink a lot at a bar called Shooters. That place rules.
 






I truly do like that Ben says he wants shooters and seems to mostly target them.
Crazy as it sounds, Belein is one of the only coaches who practiced this philosophy.
Boeheim usually has shooters too. Maybe it's a B thing? What would Ben reply?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They both can dribble a bit, move without the ball, and can shoot if left open. In other words, they need to be defended. Even if you aren't a great scorer, if you can do those things, it really opens things up for the guys who are more pure scorers (Battle and Willis).
Click to expand...
Ball movement is night and day with Johnson. That sounded kinda dirty...
 

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