Shama: Glen Taylor: Equity Group Not in Place for Wolves Sale

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Gophers1992 said:
I guess I don't see a realistic new destination that doesn't have these issues too.

Seattle has all the other major sports and a major university.
Cincinnatti has NFL, MLB, plus NHL in Columbus, Ohio State, Cleveland sports, etc.
KC - Same as above, etc.

I guess I could see Vegas being kind of a unique and maybe attractive spot, but the Knights and Raiders and soon to be A's already beat them there. There's nowhere the Wolves can go and be the main attraction realistically.
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None of those cities has 3 major league teams in their town now, let alone 4.

That said, you're missing the important part. They know it doesn't work here. The fact that it may not work in those places, if they are even in play, doesn't mean much to a billionaire who knows he'll at least have a grace period there.

Seattle makes the most sense but for Ogee's sake hoping they choose to head to Las Vegas.😇
 

It's remarkable how well Glen Taylor has done in business when looking at how poorly he's run the Wolves. His final act might well be renovating Target Center, sinking a bunch of private and public money into an aging arena without really increasing revenue streams, and signing a lease that with only a nominal penalty for leaving (that's on the city). I can't imagine that there's any appetite in Minneapolis for building a new arena, especially after sinking money into Target Center not long ago.
 

Iceland12 said:
None of those cities has 3 major league teams in their town now, let alone 4.

That said, you're missing the important part. They know it doesn't work here. The fact that it may not work in those places, if they are even in play, doesn't mean much to a billionaire who knows he'll at least have a grace period there.

Seattle makes the most sense but for Ogee's sake hoping they choose to head to Las Vegas.😇
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Maybe I am missing that - do we know it doesn't work here? There's no shortage of hoops fans in Minnesota, and the Target Center fills up for a competitive team. Obviously there are tons of other factors/issues, but how do we/they know it doesn't work here?

Also, Seattle has MLB, NHL, NFL, and a major university. And as I understand the local MLS team is relatively popular.
 
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Gophers1992 said:
I guess I don't see a realistic new destination that doesn't have these issues too.

Seattle has all the other major sports and a major university.
Cincinnatti has NFL, MLB, plus NHL in Columbus, Ohio State, Cleveland sports, etc.
KC - Same as above, etc.

I guess I could see Vegas being kind of a unique and maybe attractive spot, but the Knights and Raiders and soon to be A's already beat them there. There's nowhere the Wolves can go and be the main attraction realistically.
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It’s interesting that the west has a handful of markets where the NBA is the only major pro team in the market (no disrespect to the MLS meant):
Portland, SLC, San Antonio, OKC

Are there any markets like that left that wouldn’t be able to be “blocked” in some sense?

Boise? Albuquerque? El Paso? Omaha? Guessing too small.

What about San Diego? Only has MLB now. New arena for Twolves + SDSU college bball? On campus arena is 12k and not too old but does not meet NBA standards. The city has an antique 1966 arena that at various times hosted three different NBA franchises. Due for a new one.
 

swede2 said:
It's remarkable how well Glen Taylor has done in business when looking at how poorly he's run the Wolves. His final act might well be renovating Target Center, sinking a bunch of private and public money into an aging arena without really increasing revenue streams, and signing a lease that with only a nominal penalty for leaving (that's on the city). I can't imagine that there's any appetite in Minneapolis for building a new arena, especially after sinking money into Target Center not long ago.
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Yep.

My understanding is what Taylor does is he buys a business and let's the people who were running it keep running it. When he bought the Wolves it seemed like he bought them to keep them in town, conspiracy mongers aside of course.

With the Wolves, that hands-off approach only works if you hire somebody who knows what they are doing. Khan, Thibs, Whitman, Rambis, Jim Stack? That's the source of the conspiracy mongers.

They figure that only somebody who was trying to ruin the team would here those stiffs.
 


To refresh people's memories Taylor did sell shares to a Chinese businessman about the same time as he sold shares to Orbach.

Funny that people seem to only remember the sale to Orbach.

Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor has sold shares in the team -- including to the NBA's first Chinese minority owner -- in a deal that will enable Taylor to remain the franchise's controlling owner into the future, sources told ESPN.com.

Taylor announced last year that he planned to sell 30 percent of the team to Steve Kaplan, a minority owner of the Memphis Grizzlies, with the intention of Kaplan becoming the controlling owner in the future. That deal fell apart earlier this year.

Last week Taylor closed a deal to bring in Lizhang Jiang, a Shanghai-based businessman. Jiang, who founded Chinese marketing company Double-Edge Sports, previously worked with the NBA in China. Earlier this month, Jiang, 35, completed the purchase of Spanish soccer club Granada CF. Lanxiong Sports of China reported that Jiang purchased 5 percent of the Wolves and 5 percent of the Minnesota Lynx.

In addition, Taylor has sold a share of the team to Meyer Orbach, a New York-based real estate magnate...

www.espn.com

Sources: Wolves sell shares to China's Jiang

Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor has sold minority shares to Meyer Orbach and Lizhang Jiang, allowing Taylor to remain the controlling owner of the Wolves.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 

swede2 said:
It's remarkable how well Glen Taylor has done in business when looking at how poorly he's run the Wolves. His final act might well be renovating Target Center, sinking a bunch of private and public money into an aging arena without really increasing revenue streams, and signing a lease that with only a nominal penalty for leaving (that's on the city). I can't imagine that there's any appetite in Minneapolis for building a new arena, especially after sinking money into Target Center not long ago.
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You might be looking at it differently than he's looking at it. In terms of performance, it's probably the worst or close to the worst professional sports franchise under his ownership. In terms of TC, they got the crumbs of the Vikings stadium deal. Something was better than nothing.

As an investment, a way, way different story. He bought the team in 1995 for $88M and I've heard that he only had a few million dollars of his own cash in the deal. Today the franchise is supposedly worth around $2.5B. Even at $1.5B, I can't imagine he's ever made a better personal investment.
 

Iceland12 said:
To refresh people's memories Taylor did sell shares to a Chinese businessman about the same time as he sold shares to Orbach.

Funny that people seem to only remember the sale to Orbach.

Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor has sold shares in the team -- including to the NBA's first Chinese minority owner -- in a deal that will enable Taylor to remain the franchise's controlling owner into the future, sources told ESPN.com.

Taylor announced last year that he planned to sell 30 percent of the team to Steve Kaplan, a minority owner of the Memphis Grizzlies, with the intention of Kaplan becoming the controlling owner in the future. That deal fell apart earlier this year.

Last week Taylor closed a deal to bring in Lizhang Jiang, a Shanghai-based businessman. Jiang, who founded Chinese marketing company Double-Edge Sports, previously worked with the NBA in China. Earlier this month, Jiang, 35, completed the purchase of Spanish soccer club Granada CF. Lanxiong Sports of China reported that Jiang purchased 5 percent of the Wolves and 5 percent of the Minnesota Lynx.

In addition, Taylor has sold a share of the team to Meyer Orbach, a New York-based real estate magnate...

www.espn.com

Sources: Wolves sell shares to China's Jiang

Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor has sold minority shares to Meyer Orbach and Lizhang Jiang, allowing Taylor to remain the controlling owner of the Wolves.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Jiang's purchase of a minority interest was well reported at the time. I hadn't heard that Jiang tried to buy a majority interest in the franchise.
 

jamiche said:
You might be looking at it differently than he's looking at it. In terms of performance, it's probably the worst or close to the worst professional sports franchise under his ownership. In terms of TC, they got the crumbs of the Vikings stadium deal. Something was better than nothing.

As an investment, a way, way different story. He bought the team in 1995 for $88M and I've heard that he only had a few million dollars of his own cash in the deal. Today the franchise is supposedly worth around $2.5B. Even at $1.5B, I can't imagine he's ever made a better personal investment.
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I don't disagree that it was a good investment. But the value of the franchise has grown largely independent of his management or mismanagement. Rather, he's realizing a tremendous return due to the market. In other words, he hasn't added value himself.
 



Looks like A-Rod and Lore found a new sucker.....excuse me, I mean a new investor. from Yahoo sports:

Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore's quest to obtain majority ownership of the Minnesota Timberwolves and Minnesota Lynx is one step closer to becoming a reality.

One day after the Carlyle Group backed out of its $300 million investment, Rodriguez and Gore found a new financial backer and have reportedly filed the necessary paperwork to the NBA to finalize the deal, according to The Athletic.

Rodriguez and Lore, who currently own a 40-percent stake, have been trying to purchase another 40 percent of the team to officially make them the majority owners of the Lynx and T-wolves.

Even with the new financial backing, the pair must gain approval from the NBA board of governors and no timeline has been given for when that'll happen.

ESPN reported that the private equity firm wasn't able to come to an agreement regarding requirements for those investing in the NBA.

That created a window for Dyal Capital Partners to swoop in as the duo's limited partner and financial backer to help purchase the two franchises from Glen Taylor.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Looks like A-Rod and Lore found a new sucker.....excuse me, I mean a new investor. from Yahoo sports:

Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore's quest to obtain majority ownership of the Minnesota Timberwolves and Minnesota Lynx is one step closer to becoming a reality.
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It may be a stretch to call the newest investment group Lore/ARod found "suckers".

Doogie pointed out today on SKOR, the agreed upon price two years ago, $1.5 Billion, has been blown away since then. It's a relative bargain.

Also this newest group sold a stake in the Suns in the past couple years. That's important, because since the NBA approved them then, it's expected that they will again be voted on favorably.
 
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swede2 said:
I don't disagree that it was a good investment. But the value of the franchise has grown largely independent of his management or mismanagement. Rather, he's realizing a tremendous return due to the market. In other words, he hasn't added value himself.
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That's both correct and incorrect. Taylor took the risk (nobody else came forward in 1995), he gets the reward.

OTOH, the Phoenix Suns were a better managed franchise, playing in an aging arena in a slightly larger market that sold last year for $4B. Taylor never delivered success on the court, agreed to the sale when values were lower, agreed to an odd sales structure, to buyers who are under capitalized. So the team carries a well below market value.
 

jamiche said:
That's both correct and incorrect. Taylor took the risk (nobody else came forward in 1995), he gets the reward.
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No, it's correct. Taking a risk is quite different than adding value. Taylor purchasing the Wolves didn't add value to the organization. The original point was never about risk and investment return. It was about how poorly he has run or allowed the organization to be run under his ownership when contrasted with Taylor's rags-to-riches story and success of his other ventures.
 




swede2 said:
No, it's correct. Taking a risk is quite different than adding value. Taylor purchasing the Wolves didn't add value to the organization. The original point was never about risk and investment return. It was about how poorly he has run or allowed the organization to be run under his ownership when contrasted with Taylor's rags-to-riches story and success of his other ventures.
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Actually, he did add quite a bit of value to the organization. People forget that from about 1995 to 2006 (the KG years) the organization and the team performed quite well, especially compared to the previous ownership. The team made the playoffs several years in a row. The front office and the coaching staff was stable compared to the Harv and Marv regime. TC was new and full. Then everything turned to shit until LaVine, Wiggins, KAT and Flip showed up in the mid 2010's when the franchises fortunes began to improve.

Nobody is arguing that Taylor has been a good owner. However, over the course of thirty years he has added value, though not as much as he should. Now he's probably going to get paid out, though not as much as he should had he done a better job of guiding the franchise.

Finally, Taylor has done a tremendous job of adding value to the lives of NBA fans in this market by keeping the team here. Bad NBA basketball is always better than no NBA basketball. As long as Taylor owned the team wolves fans only had to grind about turnovers, bad perimeter defense, etc.,etc. If the ownership transfers, we can add potential relocation to the list.
 
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Kansas City Twolves.

They’d be that much closer to OKC and Denver, their closest Western colleagues now, and in a market brimming with pride over its pro sports franchises that would probably bend over backwards to completely remodel TMobile Arena or hell even build new.
 



Gopher_In_NYC said:
Does he get to keep the cash?
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Yes. Taylor keeps the cash and Lore/ARod keep their 40% ownership interest. They own just enough to cause problems operationally and to muck up a future sale. 40% is the no man's land of equity. My guess is the lawsuits will fly soon.

I'm hoping the Wilfs or Pohlads step in. Probably unlikely.
 

jamiche said:
Yes. Taylor keeps the cash and Lore/ARod keep their 40% ownership interest. They own just enough to cause problems operationally and to muck up a future sale. 40% is the no man's land of equity. My guess is the lawsuits will fly soon.

I'm hoping the Wilfs or Pohlads step in. Probably unlikely.
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The Pohlads should partner up with the Cargills to buy the team. Their collective public relations effort would be stupendous.
 

I read the value of the team has doubled since the purchase price was set? I would think that would get an approval from investors/loans.
 


jamiche said:
Yes. Taylor keeps the cash and Lore/ARod keep their 40% ownership interest. They own just enough to cause problems operationally and to muck up a future sale. 40% is the no man's land of equity. My guess is the lawsuits will fly soon.

I'm hoping the Wilfs or Pohlads step in. Probably unlikely.
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There's one person that has caused all of the Wolves problems since they have existed - Glen Taylor.

Lore/ARod brought in a competent GM and now they've been one of the best teams in the West all season.

This reeks of Taylor messing shit up once again. This is bad for the Wolves when things were starting to head in the right direction.

The longer Taylor continues as a majority owner, the worse it is for this franchise.
 

How much does Taylor actually own now? A minority owner wanted to sell his 17% but was denied. If the A-Rod group has 40%, another guy has 17%, then Taylor has 43% at most.

That makes Taylor the plurality owner, not the majority owner.

If the percentages are true, or close to it, then the Wolves are screwed. You can't operate under that kind of ownership structure.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
I read the value of the team has doubled since the purchase price was set? I would think that would get an approval from investors/loans.
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You would think investors would have lined up behind Lore and ARod. These guys were obviously perceived as very risky operators by the investment community (and probably, quietly, the NBA). The investment, itself, was almost as foolproof as you can get. One of the big four league professional franchises selling at a 40% discount should have been, well, a layup for an investor.
 

Slim Tubby said:
The Pohlads should partner up with the Cargills to buy the team. Their collective public relations effort would be stupendous.
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Piss in their Cheerios!

Meh. She just married in. She didn’t actually do anything that added value
 

jamiche said:
I don't much care who buys it as long as they keep the team here.
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KC Twolves

Sleepless in Mpls


Well actually, we can keep the branding here like Seattle kept the sonics.
 

TruthSeeker said:
How much does Taylor actually own now? A minority owner wanted to sell his 17% but was denied. If the A-Rod group has 40%, another guy has 17%, then Taylor has 43% at most.

That makes Taylor the plurality owner, not the majority owner.

If the percentages are true, or close to it, then the Wolves are screwed. You can't operate under that kind of ownership structure.
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Facilities for what they are, are in place.
GM and HC are in place: let them do their jobs.

What is there for the ownership to F up in the short term?
 

TruthSeeker said:
How much does Taylor actually own now? A minority owner wanted to sell his 17% but was denied. If the A-Rod group has 40%, another guy has 17%, then Taylor has 43% at most.

That makes Taylor the plurality owner, not the majority owner.

If the percentages are true, or close to it, then the Wolves are screwed. You can't operate under that kind of ownership structure.
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Yes and no. In theory Taylor could own 1% of the team but control everything if he is the managing partner and the partnership documents (and the NBA) allowed it. In practice, this new ownership structure is probably untenable. All parties are probably unhappy, so something will have to get worked out.
 

jamiche said:
Yes and no. In theory Taylor could own 1% of the team but control everything if he is the managing partner and the partnership documents (and the NBA) allowed it. In practice, this new ownership structure is probably untenable. All parties are probably unhappy, so something will have to get worked out.
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The team is worth 60-100% more than when Taylor initially sold it.

A-Rod and Lore will make a ton of profit if a new sale happens.
 

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