Report says P.J. Fleck illegally contacted former player; #Gophers say coach...

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KillerGopherFan said:
I think it does. Sorry you don't see that.
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Wasn't your point that many players are essentially forced to choose easier majors due to the demand of playing a sport?


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caliGopher said:
Just because Mark Coyle is a complete and total tool, with no moral compass and no integrity, doesn't make PJ Fleck the same.

Proof they are different? PJ Fleck has actually been seen in public in recent weeks in uncontrolled environments.

I have some concerns about the cult of personality that is PJ Fleck, but what may or may not have happened here has nothing to do with it. If he broke a rule, he'll be held accountable. I he didn't, he won't. I'm pretty sure this is not on the top of the NCAA's agenda of issues to look into right now, although I'm sure we can trot out a Regent to compare our program to that of Ole' Miss, just like we've been compared to Baylor in other matters.

f Fleck did in fact break this rule, let's hope the self-righteous idiot currently occupying the AD position and our Lame Duck president don't get an angry email from one Gopher fan and decide to pull the plug on the Fleck era. If anything is going to anchor the program down, it won't be Fleck, it will be the Admin.
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I wasn't ripping on Fleck, more so showing, and as you pointed out, that our AD is a complete "tool" for the way he handled that presser and the bar he set. Everything now is free game by the media and will be once something bad happens and how the U handled it in comparatively to how they handled Claey's firing.

While some on here can tout the hiring of Fleck by Coyle as the single greatest hire in the history of Gopher football, I am not impressed. It is not that hard to get a football coach who was obviously slighted he didn't get a look at Oregon, and who clearly wants to be in the spotlight based on the media coverage he is doing. Fleck did not come here because of Coyle, he came here because of the package he was offered. They gave him $3MM a year, plus an upgraded budget for coaches, and new athletic complex being built. A half-trained monkey from Como Zoo could of delivered an envelope with a contract in it with those terms and he likely would of signed it.
 

Spoofin said:
Wasn't your point that many players are essentially forced to choose easier majors due to the demand of playing a sport?
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Yeah, you don't think Business school that requires a 3.5 GPA or Engineering is more difficult to complete than BME, b/c I've known several BME majors that would tell you otherwise.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Taking a quick look at the roster, I found a large number of 3rd year+ players were still undeclared, a number of Sociology, Ag/Food Business, Kinesiology, BME, Communications, and Sport Mgmt. If you haven't declared in your 3rd year, you're not going into an "Elite" major. You'll more than likely end up with one of the above or a general degree of some kind.
Very few Engineering (like 3 or so) and no Carlson School majors.
There's nothing wrong with any of those majors. Better to have any degree than none. They're just not as likely to pay off like the latter two type of degrees.
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My sense is the percent and mix of schools and majors (including undecided) on the FB team probably closely mirrors that of the general undergrad population at the U. That certainly was my experience and observation with the student athletes I knew or was familiar with when I attended.
 



KillerGopherFan said:
Yeah, you don't think Business school that requires a 3.5 GPA or Engineering is more difficult to complete than BME, b/c I've known several BME majors that would tell you otherwise.
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I never said anything like that. Never even thought it. I challenged your theory that many student athletes have to consider less time consuming majors due to playing a sport. Well actually I challenged your assumption that choosing a major because of that happens at a higher percentage with student athletes then with the general school population.


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Spoofin said:
I never said anything like that. Never even thought it. I challenged your theory that many student athletes have to consider less time consuming majors due to playing a sport. Well actually I challenged your assumption that choosing a major because of that happens at a higher percentage with student athletes then with the general school population.


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I'll add to this by using the Marching band members as an additional challenge. KGK, you have any idea how much time they spend practicing and doing band related functions during the FB season?
 

And it continues.....Ho-hum. This is like reading every bit if the paperwork when selling a house
 






ruppertflywheel said:
And it continues.....Ho-hum. This is like reading every bit if the paperwork when selling a house
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Maybe the kindest most friendly debate on GH in years and your complaining. Do you expect everyone to agree with what everyone else says?


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PMWinSTP said:
I'll add to this by using the Marching band members as an additional challenge. KGK, you have any idea how much time they spend practicing and doing band related functions during the FB season?
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How about students who have to work to pay for their school? Are they forced to take easier majors as well?


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Spoofin said:
How about students who have to work to pay for their school? Are they forced to take easier majors as well?


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Just from a practical standpoint I don't think you can adjust your football practice schedule... can usually do that with work.
 

Spoofin said:
How about students who have to work to pay for their school? Are they forced to take easier majors as well?


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Most marching band members fall in that category as well. Grants and loans certainly don't to cover it all. So they have a huge time commitment to band, work a job, and carry a full course load, don't have dedicated tutors, don't get free meals, don't get a stipend...
 



ruppertflywheel said:
I didn't read the thread. I couldn't believe after reading the tweet from Spillane that you guys are still squeezing blood out of a turnip. Unreal....
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Curious comment then...as with seemingly all threads here, it went on a tangent.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
There's a reason that there are so many Business Marketing Education majors on the sports teams and so very few Carlson School of Business majors. And I believe there is somewhat of an inverse relationship between success on the field and success in the classroom. Somewhat. There are certainly exceptions with a few that pursue Engineering degrees, but they are exceptions rather than the rule.
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How many of the football players would qualify for Carlson? How many would get into school if it wasn't for football. What percent of Stanford's football team would be getting a Stanford education if it wasn't for football, since there are valedictorians who are not athletes that don't get accepted there.

I agree, playing a D1 sport is demanding. Yet, many athletes get access to educations at universities, and supports once there, they would never otherwise get.


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A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Just from a practical standpoint I don't think you can adjust your football practice schedule... can usually do that with work.
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Depends on the job. A lot of the better paying ones, probably not. Even if you work at night it's still taking away study time. I used to schedule as many night classes as I could so I could work more during the day because my job was in an office that was only open during the day.
 

Word said:
Depends on the job. A lot of the better paying ones, probably not. Even if you work at night it's still taking away study time. I used to schedule as many night classes as I could so I could work more during the day because my job was in an office that was only open during the day.
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"Click,click, hear the cricket as he merrily sings along"
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
How many of the football players would qualify for Carlson? How many would get into school if it wasn't for football. What percent of Stanford's football team would be getting a Stanford education if it wasn't for football, since there are valedictorians who are not athletes that don't get accepted there.

I agree, playing a D1 sport is demanding. Yet, many athletes get access to educations at universities, and supports once there, they would never otherwise get.
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Obviously, those questions are questions difficult to answer. But what do we know? We know that the football team has an average GPA of 3.0 or slightly above, so the average player isn't a hardship academic case. I would agree that some great athletes get special consideration to attend Stanford. I doubt that is necessary for a very high percentage of athletes admitted to the U.
So my point is that on average, the football team is made up of academically capable students, yet very few of them choose majors that would be considered very difficult b/c of the demands of football and other sports. If some players are forced into less demanding majors due to their participation in sports, that diminishes the value of their scholarship.
For those who want to compare it to college jobs, I agree with SOB, a job has more flexibility. CFB is a big commitment and there is very little flexibility in the time demands b/c the schedule is designed around what works for 105+ athletes whereas most college jobs are not as restrictive and not even close to the same commitment.
Keep in mind, this thread drifted to this conversation b/c someone responded to my comment that college football and the NCAA aren't always considerate of S-As or fair, and that I said that's life in big time CFB. He pointed out that they are getting a "free" education, and I said it isn't free.
 

I had to back out to make sure I was reading the right thread. This one really got off track.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Obviously, those questions are questions difficult to answer. But what do we know? We know that the football team has an average GPA of 3.0 or slightly above, so the average player isn't a hardship academic case. I would agree that some great athletes get special consideration to attend Stanford. I doubt that is necessary for a very high percentage of athletes admitted to the U.
So my point is that on average, the football team is made up of academically capable students, yet very few of them choose majors that would be considered very difficult b/c of the demands of football and other sports. If some players are forced into less demanding majors due to their participation in sports, that diminishes the value of their scholarship.
For those who want to compare it to college jobs, I agree with SOB, a job has more flexibility. CFB is a big commitment and there is very little flexibility in the time demands b/c the schedule is designed around what works for 105+ athletes whereas most college jobs are not as restrictive and not even close to the same commitment.
Keep in mind, this thread drifted to this conversation b/c someone responded to my comment that college football and the NCAA aren't always considerate of S-As or fair, and that I said that's life in big time CFB. He pointed out that they are getting a "free" education, and I said it isn't free.
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I asked this on the other thread and nobody here answered the question. Can anyone produce evidence that the U has a higher barrier to entry than the NCAA minimum academic sliding scale standard? I'm genuinely curious as this has become a bit of urban legend yet we've never heard actual criteria. It seems like there is conflation of the minimum criteria vs the median percentiles of MN vs any other school. Somebody put this to bed for me.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Obviously, those questions are questions difficult to answer. But what do we know? We know that the football team has an average GPA of 3.0 or slightly above, so the average player isn't a hardship academic case. I would agree that some great athletes get special consideration to attend Stanford. I doubt that is necessary for a very high percentage of athletes admitted to the U.
So my point is that on average, the football team is made up of academically capable students, yet very few of them choose majors that would be considered very difficult b/c of the demands of football and other sports. If some players are forced into less demanding majors due to their participation in sports, that diminishes the value of their scholarship.
For those who want to compare it to college jobs, I agree with SOB, a job has more flexibility. CFB is a big commitment and there is very little flexibility in the time demands b/c the schedule is designed around what works for 105+ athletes whereas most college jobs are not as restrictive and not even close to the same commitment.
Keep in mind, this thread drifted to this conversation b/c someone responded to my comment that college football and the NCAA aren't always considerate of S-As or fair, and that I said that's life in big time CFB. He pointed out that they are getting a "free" education, and I said it isn't free.
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I agree it's not free in that football is essentially the "work study" job they each have, & it's a huge demand. Yet, along with that comes all kinds of supports that an average student does not get with tutor support, nutrition, access to alumni, etc. I'm sure it also influences what courses guys can take, especially during fall semester. Different coaches approach that differently. Hopefully, PJ is who he says he is in supporting kids academic goals because most are not going to make a living in the NFL.

Tubby, in basketball for example, was very supportive of his athletes and their pursuits as I know there were a number of them In Carlson, engineering, etc.


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