QB Room Empty But OC Keeps His Job?

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My take on Viotto is that after Athan announced, PJ told him that Kramer would start the bowl game. Starting a guy with no future past this season over him told him all he needed to know that in the coach's mind at least, there was no plan for him ever to play.
 

Gold Rush said:
I think my biggest concern is we just had our QB really regress this year. Remember last year this kid looked like he was going to be really good. He comes in and beats Nebraska, torches Wisconsin and then wins the Bowl Game. Maybe he isn't spectacular, but he looked pretty solid. So why the regression??? This is on top of Morgan who also had a very good year and beats Auburn -- then regresses his last two years.

This is not supposed to happen like this. Usually, a QB gets better as he gets more comfortable with the offense and the game slows down for him. Usually coaching helps them get to the next level but right now -- we aren't coaching these kids up -- they are getting WORSE, not better and that is a huge red flag for your coaching staff.
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Honestly, it felt like people were just done with Morgan and wanted a change. He was 6-12 against nebraska and remeber thinking he missed a ton of throws. Numbers done lie he is a largely inaccurate thrower with no touch on the ball. He did look gook against Wisconsin but his best was still only 65% accurate. He started and or played over 50% of the time in 18 games here. To me to be considered an adequate starter in college fb you need to be 60% or better. I cannot be the only person that has ever used this as a benchmark.

Games under 60%-13 games Our record 3-10
Games over 60%-5. Our record 4-1

Again numbers don't lie

Take a look at Morgans last 19 games he was the qb

2021
Over 60 7 times, 7-0
Under 60 5 times-1-4

2022
Over 60 5times- 5-0
Under 60 2 times-0-2.

I credited nebraska last year to Kalamiakas. I cannot recall on the Syracuse game when ak got hurt. but he was 7-9 that game and morgan was 4-7 for 11-16 and over 60% and we won.
 
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DCinOK said:
Why are some of you saying that AK "felt he wasn't getting the help/coaching he needed?" You're basing that on personal talks you've had with AK?! Is it also not just possible that he's concluded he's not good enough to start in the Big 10? Let's see what school he goes to.
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Like most of the things on boards like this, we just observe the game and give our opinions. It's rare that any of us have any insider information and it's even rarer that that information holds true.

For AK, my opinion that there is also a coaching issue is just that he looks really sloppy out there. He does not have a consistent throwing motion, sometimes it's side arm (for no reason). He skips really easy throws and rifles other ones. To me, it feels like he doesn't have a firm grasp of where the ball is going when it leaves his hand.

In my opinion, if it isn't a coaching issue, it's almost borderline the yips. It could be a combo. These issues were not as apparent last year.
 




Gold Rush said:
I think my biggest concern is we just had our QB really regress this year. Remember last year this kid looked like he was going to be really good. He comes in and beats Nebraska, torches Wisconsin and then wins the Bowl Game. Maybe he isn't spectacular, but he looked pretty solid. So why the regression??? This is on top of Morgan who also had a very good year and beats Auburn -- then regresses his last two years.

This is not supposed to happen like this. Usually, a QB gets better as he gets more comfortable with the offense and the game slows down for him. Usually coaching helps them get to the next level but right now -- we aren't coaching these kids up -- they are getting WORSE, not better and that is a huge red flag for your coaching staff.
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I'd argue that Athan didn't regress in 2023. His passer rating that went from 127.4 to 115.2 was almost entirely because of less yards. His td/int rate was far better. His completion percentage was a wash because of facing better defenses and no longer being an unknown.

The Wisconsin game last year was the only game where I thought he could be pretty good. The rest of the games were between woof to okay. 3tds, 4ints, 54% on 111 attempts = not great. I will say that maybe his injury last year is causing problems in his game this year.

Plus,I mean - in lots of sports when opposing coaches learn how to play against a particular player, that player has to adjust their game. If they can't, they just reached their ceiling. Athan seems like a really nice guy, but his recruitment was based on potential because of his few reps in HS. Maybe another staff can get more from his accuracy and reads. Minnesota might not have the luxury to wait for their starting QB to learn how to play QB.
 
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What I hope happens is that Fleck and Coyle meet, possibly for breakfast, and Coyle tells Fleck that he needs to let his OC run the offense like he lets Rossi handle the defense. Doesn't need to be totally hands off, but he needs to delegate far more authority. Then PJ needs to decide whether he wants to hitch his wagon to Harbaugh or find somebody else. Before the AK transfer news, I was leaning toward the "keep the OC to try to build some continuity" side of the argument, but since all the QBs are leaving, he should feel free to change course, again, if he feels that he needs to do so.

But Coyle needs to set the expectation that, starting next season, there will be a viable offensive system to recruit to and a demonstration that they are back on course or there just might need to be another conversation after next year about whether Fleck is the long term answer as HC. Fleck's contract "extension" this year should reflect that in the one area that really matters, terms of the buyout.
 

kisarazu said:
I'd argue that Athan didn't regress in 2023. His passer rating that went from 127.4 to 115.2 was almost entirely because of less yards. His td/int rate was far better. His completion percentage was a wash because of facing better defenses and no longer being an unknown. This is were reps and coaching help with mechanics and reads can help. But I'm not sure if he can get better.

The Wisconsin game last year was the only game where I thought he could be pretty good. The rest of the games were between woof to okay. 3tds, 4ints, 54% on 111 attempts = not great. I will say that maybe his injury last year is causing problems in his game this year.

Plus,I mean - in lots of sports when opposing coaches learn how to play against a particular player, that player has to adjust their game. If they can't, they just reached their ceiling. Athan seems like a really nice guy, but his recruitment was based on potential because of his few reps in HS. Maybe another staff can get more from his accuracy and reads. Minnesota might not have the luxury to wait for their starting QB to learn how to play QB.
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Yeah last year folks were pretty hyped and I was looking around at this forum all:

"Uh guies wut?"

I was happy to go forward with him but I was not sure about what folks saw that made them that hyped.
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
What I hope happens is that Fleck and Coyle meet, possibly for breakfast, and Coyle tells Fleck that he needs to let his OC run the offense like he lets Rossi handle the defense. Doesn't need to be totally hands off, but he needs to delegate far more authority. Then PJ needs to decide whether he wants to hitch his wagon to Harbaugh or find somebody else. Before the AK transfer news, I was leaning toward the "keep the OC to try to build some continuity" side of the argument, but since all the QBs are leaving, he should feel free to change course, again, if he feels that he needs to do so.

But Coyle needs to set the expectation that, starting next season, there will be a viable offensive system to recruit to and a demonstration that they are back on course or there just might need to be another conversation after next year about whether Fleck is the long term answer as HC. Fleck's contract "extension" this year should reflect that in the one area that really matters, terms of the buyout.
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I don't think ADs should be making calls like that... there's nothing about the AD's job that makes them qualified to make those kinds of calls.
 




CurveballJesus said:
My take on Viotto is that after Athan announced, PJ told him that Kramer would start the bowl game. Starting a guy with no future past this season over him told him all he needed to know that in the coach's mind at least, there was no plan for him ever to play.
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Viotto may definitely have felt he wasn’t really in the future plans but I highly doubt what you laid out is accurate as that would be a silly reason to transfer.

starting a senior over a true freshman in a bowl game wouldn’t shock anyone associated with a football team.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It's all new with the portal ... but it's happening at other schools.

New normal time.
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In terms of the new normal, just look to MSU. They have a really good coach coming in with Jonathon Smith from Oregon St. Yet, despite what you think would be good news with a quality coach, all three QBs hit the portal in (Houser, Leavitt and Kim).

Of course, these days there might be a little behind the scenes messaging and these guys were aware Smith was bringing his own guys with him.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I don't think ADs should be making calls like that... there's nothing about the AD's job that makes them qualified to make those kinds of calls.
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Well, I mean, Coyle is his boss and Fleck is accountable to him for his performance. But if you would prefer to change "Coyle tells Fleck" to "Coyle strongly suggests to Fleck," I'm okay with that.
 



2nd Degree Gopher said:
...but since all the QBs are leaving, he should feel free to change course, again, if he feels that he needs to do so.
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That's a really interesting point. I hadn't thought of that angle.

What type of offense did Brosmer run at New Hampshire?
 

MNVCGUY said:
Viotto may definitely have felt he wasn’t really in the future plans but I highly doubt what you laid out is accurate as that would be a silly reason to transfer.

starting a senior over a true freshman in a bowl game wouldn’t shock anyone associated with a football team.
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I think Viotto likely saw the writing on the wall in numerous ways. First players are smart enough to get a feel for how invested the coaches are in them. Once the Coach isn't pushing you as hard or isn't spending as much time with then you get a feel for where things are at. Then add in the fact they are looking to bring in Brosmer and these kids are also looking at the competition and he sees the numbers Drake Lindsey is putting up and I think he knows.
 


2nd Degree Gopher said:
Well, I mean, Coyle is his boss and Fleck is accountable to him for his performance. But if you would prefer to change "Coyle tells Fleck" to "Coyle strongly suggests to Fleck," I'm okay with that.
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His boss should not be making Football coaching decisions.

Nothing on Coyle‘s résumé indicates he would know what to do with the coaches.
 
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RememberMurray said:
That's a really interesting point. I hadn't thought of that angle.

What type of offense did Brosmer run at New Hampshire?
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The highlights I saw looked very similar to Minnesota. Mostly gun, mesh concepts that result in zone read and RPO, lots of play action, etc.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
His boss should not be baking Football coaching decisions.

Nothing on Coyle‘s résumé indicates he would know what to do with the coaches.
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+1

If someone as unqualified to coach football as Coyle is telling Fleck how to coach, something is very wrong. With that kind of logic, maybe the Board of Regents should pass a resolution ordering the President to tell Coyle to make Fleck utilize his assistants differently. If Coyle has lost that much faith in Fleck, he should be interviewing his replacement.
 

Some guy said:
I remember when I said this when Sanford was OC and was mocked and ridiculed

If you want a wide open offense, you’re going to need a new HC.
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We don't need a wide open offense, we need a better one. We can run as much as we did in 2019 so long as we can pass as efficiently as we did in 2019.

We also need to stop punting from inside the 40.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
We don't need a wide open offense, we need a better one. We can run as much as we did in 2019 so long as we can pass as efficiently as we did in 2019.

We also need to stop punting from inside the 40.
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I tend to agree with you but that’s a different conversation
 

I heard Brian Ferentz is looking for a job.... He'd fit in with PJ's play calling schemes.... :mad::mad::mad:
 

mngg11 said:
Maybe PJ liked the playcalling from a first year guy and feels he should have a chance with a good qb before he shows him the door? Time will tell I guess.
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I would seriously question Fleck's perspective if he actually thought that...
 

MirandaB said:
I think PJ needs to change his best and have a tough conversation with himself. Just like he is supposedly always looking for players to beat out our current players, he needs to make improvements in most of the coaching positions. I appreciate he has raised our expectations. Let's exceed them now.
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He utterly and completely failed at this for the QB position...multiple times.
 

GoldGoldGold said:
I heard Brian Ferentz is looking for a job.... He'd fit in with PJ's play calling schemes.... :mad::mad::mad:
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Holy sh!t balls would that suck! He does have the similar scheme though. Plus all his smack talk about PJ and RTB?!? Get outta here, that would be pay per view worthy!
 


matt said:
Kirk Ferentz agrees.
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It was partly Kirk's idea to put his son under the direction of the AD. Was a required workaround to the Iowa laws on nepotism.
 

Maybe we need a true (separate) QB coach with some experience chops. And, no one named "Harbaugh" should ever work for the Gophers. Go to Michigan.
PJ, make big changes in this off-season.
 

RememberMurray said:
That's a really interesting point. I hadn't thought of that angle.

What type of offense did Brosmer run at New Hampshire?
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Brosmer’s HC at New Hampshire is Ricky Santos, a three-time Walter Camp All American at the QB position. Santos was a QB position coach before HC. He took a kid (Brosmer) who was unrated coming out of HS and turned him into the leading FCS QB. THAT is development and growth. A package deal: Brosmer and Santos to Minnesota. Santos as QB coach and co-OC with Simon? That would help the up and coming QBs also.

If Santos stays at UNH (where he played), AK8 should transfer there, if stepping down to FCS. He might get better QB coaching and blossom.
 

Not only is Greg Harbaugh a bad QB coach, but he's a horrendous play caller and shouldn't be coaching here. Period
 

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