QB Room Empty But OC Keeps His Job?

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60's Guy

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If AK8 the starter is leaving it seems to me he is saying he's unhappy. He was supported to the max as the #1 starter without question. But, he doesn't feel he was coached beneficially to help him improve from last year. Is PJ the problem or is the OC/QB coach the problem? Or is it both? If the OC can't buffer PJ's criticisms with his own confidence builders to the players....that's not gonna work. If they both beat guys up....that's not gonna work. Either way when the whole room wants to leave....it's pretty clear just changing new guys in is unlikely to work. The abilities of the teaching and the atmosphere has to change!!!

PJ is not going to fire himself. He has no choice but to fire Harbaugh. Knuth left. AK8 is leaving. Viotto is leaving. Cole walked with the seniors...he wants or wanted to leave. That's pretty unanimous evidence there is a problem. We only have a freshman walk-on who may or may not be happy.

If OC Harbaugh stays PJ is going to get questions about his own responsibilities. Replacing the OC puts all the blame for this on Harbaugh. Can't imagine that doesn't happen. And I don't see how we recover to attract new QB recruits if it doesn't happen given the circumstances.

If backups don't feel they are getting a fair chance to compete for the top spot....that has to be depressing. If they don't feel like they are being developed to improve and start...why would they stay?

How do you guys see it?
 
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A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Was the OC supposed to keep those guys who couldn’t beat out AK?

Rosters are going to be more dynamic now, just how it is.
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I agree it is a more dynamic time but teams generally don't wipe out their whole QB room. If I'm looking to find a new home....ya I got opportunity but there has to be something wrong if 5 guys want out. I'm probably gonna look else where for my opportunity.
Especially, if it isn't explained with a we fired the problem guy.

AND, those guys couldn't beat out AK8 because PJ does not change QB's. Not necessarily because they couldn't compete.
 

PJ came to the realization that it was him or me…do I risk my job for this kid? I think PJ told him it was over with the guarantee the position was his, and Athan realized that he needed more help than he could get here. Viotto probably because he didnt get a shot at all with the lousy QB play this year and sees the writing on the wall with the transfer they are trying to get. It’s not a good look with everybody leaving because that could mean the QB coaching was lousy. But personally I think it was the him or me…and PJ wants to keep his job.
 


Pretty tough to know without knowing what’s going on behind closed doors
But I hated the Oc hire and it hasn’t done anything to change my mind yet
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
PJ came to the realization that it was him or me…do I risk my job for this kid? I think PJ told him it was over with the guarantee the position was his, and Athan realized that he needed more help than he could get here. Viotto probably because he didnt get a shot at all with the lousy QB play this year and sees the writing on the wall with the transfer they are trying to get. It’s not a good look with everybody leaving because that could mean the QB coaching was lousy. But personally I think it was the him or me…and PJ wants to keep his job.
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Kramer walked with the seniors....PJ was aware of that. Probably aware Viotto was unhappy. He knows Knuth already left. With that he's going coerce AK8 to transfer? I can see challenging him with the knowledge we gotta get better QB play. I'm going to bring in competition...you have the inside track you know the offense. Here's what I need from you...(outline program to improve)
Bowl game is your first opportunity to show the team you are our guy. Should be exciting....betting on you!! And he's going to transfer? Only if the QB room is toxic. Otherwise as a competitor he's not giving anybody his job.
 

Maybe PJ liked the playcalling from a first year guy and feels he should have a chance with a good qb before he shows him the door? Time will tell I guess.
 

i think that this, losing AK, was coach induced. It just doesn’t compute though to put the backup out as well, and it makes little sense to play Kramer in a bowl game when he isn’t going to be around. That’s the part I can’t quite make sense of.

I don’t follow the staff much at all but I think the head coach, in college for sure, puts his approval on the offense to be run, and in this case he (PJ) is the guy who was telling us about how great our quarterback was going to be this year. The first half of the Neb. game the announcers were talking AK up as a star to be unveiled.

It’s just hard for me to buy that the OC and the DC for that matter aren’t just coaching in the style set forth by the head coach. Also, seems that AKs problems were more head related than physical. Played very robotic, I just keep thinking of that 2nd down run to seal the Illinois game, there was a hole you could drive a car through, a large car, and for some reason he didnt see it. Made up his mind to run outside, couldn’t see the hole. Not very instinctive.

Hope it all works out, I lean toward the overcoaching vs not being coached up, I guess time will tell. On the bright side Aiden O Connell was a walk on I think, maybe Shikenjanski will be the guy and they know it.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Was the OC supposed to keep those guys who couldn’t beat out AK?

Rosters are going to be more dynamic now, just how it is.
Click to expand...
The OC is the QBs' position coach. He is supposed to be coaching up and developing every QB on the roster because its the right thing to do (if you are recruiting kids) and DEPTH MATTERS. If the OC isn't helping AK8 and the other roster QBs develop--if they are regressing--new QBs might not solve the issue.
 

for all the complaining about the OC, there is another school of thought that the OC is coaching with one hand tied behind his back - because the Head Coach keeps telling the OC what he can and cannot do.

Ryan Burns has been pretty adamant that Fleck is micro-managing the offense - telling the OC when to run the ball, etc.

the Gopher offense has looked pretty much the same through 4 OC's in 7 years. that suggests that the OC is not the one making the final decisions.
 

Well, it will be interesting to watch the bowl game just to see what they slap together for QB play. The only option is to play Kramer and have Shikenjanski in the back-up/emergency role.

Just a quick thought on being the OC for PJ, it would be really interesting to understand the dynamic of dealing with PJ in that role. I always suspected the PJ meddles a fair amount in the playcalling with his need to go so conservative. I think it was more than just money that sent Kirk to Rutgers. I suspect Kirk got back here and said to himself, yes it's as bad as I remember and I can't put up with it anymore. In that environment, you won't get a veteran OC as they won't put up with that constant interference. However, if you have a guy like Harbaugh who is beholding to you for making him the OC, then you will put up with it. I could be way off on the amount PJ meddles, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.
 

I think the QB lost his job. That's the main story. And the backup looked worse. If possible move on from them. They did.
 



60's Guy said:
Kramer walked with the seniors....PJ was aware of that. Probably aware Viotto was unhappy. He knows Knuth already left. With that he's going coerce AK8 to transfer? I can see challenging him with the knowledge we gotta get better QB play. I'm going to bring in competition...you have the inside track you know the offense. Here's what I need from you...(outline program to improve)
Bowl game is your first opportunity to show the team you are our guy. Should be exciting....betting on you!! And he's going to transfer? Only if the QB room is toxic. Otherwise as a competitor he's not giving anybody his job.
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I don't think Viotto announced so that might be a surprise, but that's it. This is big time college football. These coaches are paid millions and millions of dollars to produce wins. Look at the heat PJ got this year and look how he reacted in his last press conference. He went after the QB position...who played any snaps beyond Athan? No one. PJ knows there are a bunch of QBs in the portal, he has a good recruit on the line. Is he really willing to take that heat (and much more), that level of risk going into next year? He is with these guys every day in practice. He sees what they can and can't do. I didn't exactly hear him give a vote of confidence to Athan or other QB's for that matter. Sure he's willing to give Athan a choice, compete or walk. Athan chose to walk but I'm guessing PJ realized it was him or me and he was willing to bet on himself as all these coaches do.
 

When the #1 QB leaves, it would seem to reason that the #3 QB would be like "Hey, giant break for me!". But when when things are so bad that he leaves too, you know there is a problem behind the scenes. There are more red flags here than at a Russian airport. It would be a death knell to the fan base and NIL if Harbaugh comes back in his current role.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Was the OC supposed to keep those guys who couldn’t beat out AK?

Rosters are going to be more dynamic now, just how it is.
Click to expand...
OC is suppose to have a head to call plays and coach. He is a complete failure. open your eyes.
 

60's Guy said:
If AK8 the starter is leaving it seems to me he is saying he's unhappy. He was supported to the max as the #1 starter without question. But, he doesn't feel he was coached beneficially to help him improve from last year. Is PJ the problem or is the OC/QB coach the problem? Or is it both? If the OC can't buffer PJ's criticisms with his own confidence builders to the players....that's not gonna work. If they both beat guys up....that's not gonna work. Either way when the whole room wants to leave....it's pretty clear just changing new guys in is unlikely to work. The abilities of the teaching and the atmosphere has to change!!!

PJ is not going to fire himself. He has no choice but to fire Harbaugh. Knuth left. AK8 is leaving. Viotto is leaving. Cole walked with the seniors...he wants or wanted to leave. That's pretty unanimous evidence there is a problem. We only have a freshman walk-on who may or may not be happy.

If OC Harbaugh stays PJ is going to get questions about his own responsibilities. Replacing the OC puts all the blame for this on Harbaugh. Can't imagine that doesn't happen. And I don't see how we recover to attract new QB recruits if it doesn't happen given the circumstances.

If backups don't feel they are getting a fair chance to compete for the top spot....that has to be depressing. If they don't feel like they are being developed to improve and start...why would they stay?

How do you guys see it?
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You are assuming Flexk wasn’t involved in talking to AK about entering the portal. Fleck had made offers to portal QB’s - he had no choice. Either he told AK his time was up or major competition was coming. Also if fleck is going to let the OC go, I would assume that would haven in a few weeks after the bowl game.
 


If the coach isn't able to get through to the QB, and the QB is unable to be consistent, it's not crazy for the coaching staff to decide to go in another direction which they are.

How AK8 responds to that is his choice.

Just because a player isn't able to improve doesn't mean the coach needs to be fired.

Viotto leaving is because he probably shouldn't have been given a scholarship in the first place, and Viotto was probably informed that he got passed on the depth chart by a walk-on and would likely never play here.

Since Viotto was recruited by a QB coach / OC who is already gone, there is no one still here worth firing for that "mistake".
 

Unfortunately even with this year having a bonus game remaining to be played, it will be recorded as a "down year" on Coach's up-down progress chart.

With what's happening in the QB room as just the tip of the iceberg, for mental health reasons methinks I'll go ahead and write-off next year as "rebuilding" so I can be pleasantly surprised if the 2024 Gophers perform better.

Regardless, there's some backstory that may or may not see the light of day. Interesting times ahead.
 

At this point I think you give Harbaugh another year to show what he can do. He oversaw an offense with super inconsistent play from its QB and WR group as well as massive injuries in the backfield leading to a walkon being the primary RB for a decent portion of the year.

The other option would be to completely blow up the offensive staff, go hire a new OC and let him hire his position coaches. And while there is some definite appeal in going that route, I just don't see that happening at this point.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
for all the complaining about the OC, there is another school of thought that the OC is coaching with one hand tied behind his back - because the Head Coach keeps telling the OC what he can and cannot do.

Ryan Burns has been pretty adamant that Fleck is micro-managing the offense - telling the OC when to run the ball, etc.

the Gopher offense has looked pretty much the same through 4 OC's in 7 years. that suggests that the OC is not the one making the final decisions.
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We should go full air raid in the bowl game, just to see what happens; play Hoskins and other receivers and just throw the ball all over the field.

Free yourselves PJs - it’s the best you’ll ever feel
 

Why are some of you saying that AK "felt he wasn't getting the help/coaching he needed?" You're basing that on personal talks you've had with AK?! Is it also not just possible that he's concluded he's not good enough to start in the Big 10? Let's see what school he goes to.
 

mngg11 said:
Maybe PJ liked the playcalling from a first year guy and feels he should have a chance with a good qb before he shows him the door? Time will tell I guess.
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PJ might have, but GopherHole didn't.
 


gopher7 said:
When the #1 QB leaves, it would seem to reason that the #3 QB would be like "Hey, giant break for me!". But when when things are so bad that he leaves too, you know there is a problem behind the scenes. There are more red flags here than at a Russian airport. It would be a death knell to the fan base and NIL if Harbaugh comes back in his current role.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree but I don't think any of us were super excited with Viotta signed. Always nice to land a recruit but I think the consensus was if he wasn't Taylor's teammate we most likely wouldn't have been recruiting him. I don't know if anyone viewed him as a future starter at any point in his career, but with that said, this is where the transfer portal absolutely kills depth on a team.
 

I think PJ needs to change his best and have a tough conversation with himself. Just like he is supposedly always looking for players to beat out our current players, he needs to make improvements in most of the coaching positions. I appreciate he has raised our expectations. Let's exceed them now.
 

I think my biggest concern is we just had our QB really regress this year. Remember last year this kid looked like he was going to be really good. He comes in and beats Nebraska, torches Wisconsin and then wins the Bowl Game. Maybe he isn't spectacular, but he looked pretty solid. So why the regression??? This is on top of Morgan who also had a very good year and beats Auburn -- then regresses his last two years.

This is not supposed to happen like this. Usually, a QB gets better as he gets more comfortable with the offense and the game slows down for him. Usually coaching helps them get to the next level but right now -- we aren't coaching these kids up -- they are getting WORSE, not better and that is a huge red flag for your coaching staff.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
for all the complaining about the OC, there is another school of thought that the OC is coaching with one hand tied behind his back - because the Head Coach keeps telling the OC what he can and cannot do.

Ryan Burns has been pretty adamant that Fleck is micro-managing the offense - telling the OC when to run the ball, etc.

the Gopher offense has looked pretty much the same through 4 OC's in 7 years. that suggests that the OC is not the one making the final decisions.
Click to expand...
I remember when I said this when Sanford was OC and was mocked and ridiculed

If you want a wide open offense, you’re going to need a new HC.
 

Gold Rush said:
I think my biggest concern is we just had our QB really regress this year. Remember last year this kid looked like he was going to be really good. He comes in and beats Nebraska, torches Wisconsin and then wins the Bowl Game. Maybe he isn't spectacular, but he looked pretty solid. So why the regression??? This is on top of Morgan who also had a very good year and beats Auburn -- then regresses his last two years.

This is not supposed to happen like this. Usually, a QB gets better as he gets more comfortable with the offense and the game slows down for him. Usually coaching helps them get to the next level but right now -- we aren't coaching these kids up -- they are getting WORSE, not better and that is a huge red flag for your coaching staff.
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Disagree that he regressed. He was inconsistent both years.

Removing the Wisconsin game last year he was 41/82 627 1 touchdown 4 ints
Passer rating of 108.5
 

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