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GophAroundGuy

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Somebody please explain, why play so conservative when we have nothing to lose?
 

GophAroundGuy said:
Somebody please explain, why play so conservative when we have nothing to lose?
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Because that is the style of play that Kill and his staff are comfortable with. They play very conservative, especially at the end of halves. They have been like that from day one and I don't see them changing anytime soon.
 

This was by far m biggest issue of the game. Why the hell are you letting clock run out with almost minute left and decent field position. According to Kill, "we get the ball back to start the half", well so much for that, huh? Mizzu took risks like every other team in bowl games, there is no game after today win or lose, this was the first time I have ever been frustrated with coaching. Also, we are wayyyy to liberal with our timeouts, You have to save those for end of games.
 

GuyFawkes said:
This was by far m biggest issue of the game. Why the hell are you letting clock run out with almost minute left and decent field position. According to Kill, "we get the ball back to start the half", well so much for that, huh? Mizzu took risks like every other team in bowl games, there is no game after today win or lose, this was the first time I have ever been frustrated with coaching. Also, we are wayyyy to liberal with our timeouts, You have to save those for end of games.
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We didn't use a single timeout in the first half and only used one early in the 2nd half.
 

I've watched Kill at Southern & Northern because living in Chicago I have a lot of friends that have played for him at both schools & have watched TONS of games...

Kill didn't play it safe at Northern Illinois because he had a QB that was VERY capable of putting up 250 yards consistently. He has had solid QB's everywhere he has went. Minnesota is a different situation because he needs to be able to attract a skilled enough QB to play at THIS level. Mac schools can recruit overlooked Big Ten caliber players to play on a Mac level but the Big Ten (Power Conference) *IS* the highest level. Kill has Minnesota solid at the Run Game, Defense & Special Teams like we haven't seen in a while.

I'll trust them until I see us decline but there's been steady progress since he's been here.

Look at us... bitching after a January Bowl loss against an SEC team when Kill took over a team that lost to New Mexico State his first season.

"Brick By Brick"... stop judging everything play by play or game by game. His body of work at Minnesota has progress EVERY season. What more do you want? You expected us to be #1 National Champions after 3 years? Be honest, some of you "FANS" would've NEVER guessed we'd be playing January 1st after the Illinois loss. Go back to that game thread... I said I wasn't worried because you could SEE the team was heading in the right direction.

Does Jerry do some questionable things? Yes... guess what? ALL COACHES DO...

Does Jerry do some things that make me go "WTF?" Yes... guess what? ALL COACHES DO...

Spurs fans were calling Popavich an idiot up until Game 4 of the NBA Finals so miss me with expecting Jerry Kill to be some perfect Jesus Christ of Coaching...

You could see the decline when Mason & Brewster were coaches. Jerry has shown NOTHING but progress...

WHEN WE STOP PROGRESSING, THEN WORRY...

I don't care for "Moral Victories" but I DO put things in perspective...
 



Don't get it either. They give off the impression they don't care about winning the game. Either that, or they don't understand that to win these things you need to go out and take them. A win just isn't going to fall in your lap.
 

gopher7 said:
Don't get it either. They give off the impression they don't care about winning the game. Either that, or they don't understand that to win these things you need to go out and take them. A win just isn't going to fall in your lap.
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Honest answer... if Mitch had gone out there & thrown a Pick 6... would you NOT be questioning Kill's decision KNOWING Mitch is not a reliable passer? Honestly? We'd be down 10 with ZERO momentum coming out in the Half. At least they went into the Half KNOWING they were still in it as opposed to being winded down 10.

I know we weren't guaranteed to throw a Pick 6 but I love how everyone just automatically assumes we were going to get points...
 

Fine with the conservative play - but dont vocalize it. We can see it from the TV. Thats a situation where he needed to tell us what we were going to do to win. I believe in his "trust in the kids" approach, but given how non-assertive we were at times, that gave off the wrong impression to a lot of the fans.
 



thailleagle said:
I've watched Kill at Southern & Northern because living in Chicago I have a lot of friends that have played for him at both schools & have watched TONS of games...

Kill didn't play it safe at Northern Illinois because he had a QB that was VERY capable of putting up 250 yards consistently. He has had solid QB's everywhere he has went. Minnesota is a different situation because he needs to be able to attract a skilled enough QB to play at THIS level. Mac schools can recruit overlooked Big Ten caliber players to play on a Mac level but the Big Ten (Power Conference) *IS* the highest level. Kill has Minnesota solid at the Run Game, Defense & Special Teams like we haven't seen in a while.

I'll trust them until I see us decline but there's been steady progress since he's been here.

Look at us... bitching after a January Bowl loss against an SEC team when Kill took over a team that lost to New Mexico State his first season.

"Brick By Brick"... stop judging everything play by play or game by game. His body of work at Minnesota has progress EVERY season. What more do you want? You expected us to be #1 National Champions after 3 years? Be honest, some of you "FANS" would've NEVER guessed we'd be playing January 1st after the Illinois loss. Go back to that game thread... I said I wasn't worried because you could SEE the team was heading in the right direction.

Does Jerry do some questionable things? Yes... guess what? ALL COACHES DO...

Does Jerry do some things that make me go "WTF?" Yes... guess what? ALL COACHES DO...

Spurs fans were calling Popavich an idiot up until Game 4 of the NBA Finals so miss me with expecting Jerry Kill to be some perfect Jesus Christ of Coaching...

You could see the decline when Mason & Brewster were coaches. Jerry has shown NOTHING but progress...

WHEN WE STOP PROGRESSING, THEN WORRY...

I don't care for "Moral Victories" but I DO put things in perspective...
Click to expand...

While I agree with a lot of what you say here, our record this year is the same this as last year. That is static; while Kill's pay has increased. Granted, this year we played in a New Year's Day bowl game, but we lost. There is no stat for moral victories. I think Kill is a very good coach, but there are certain tendencies with this coaching staff that prevents Kill from being a great coach. If we continue to have 8 win or less seasons, I will not tolerate the excuses or hold out for the future or fear that Jerry might leave. The man is getting paid handsomely and he should be expected to win.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
While I agree with a lot of what you say here, our record this year is the same this as last year. That is static; while Kill's pay has increased. Granted, this year we played in a New Year's Day bowl game, but we lost. There is no stat for moral victories. I think Kill is a very good coach, but there are certain tendencies with this coaching staff that prevents Kill from being a great coach. If we continue to have 8 win or less seasons, I will not tolerate the excuses or hold out for the future or fear that Jerry might leave. The man is getting paid handsomely and he should be expected to win.
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Would you rather had things went different this Season & beat Marshall in the Insight Bowl?

I'd rather have QUALITY wins REGARDLESS OF RECORD then CUPCAKE WINS with a 10+ record.

Kill is doing something we haven't seen in a long time. Winning in November. Sorry but that's progress regardless of record. I'm not into numbers, I'm not into stats or box scores.

I'll take close games against Ohio State, Wisconsin & TCU (who is arguably starting the season #1 next year) & wins against Nebraska & Michigan & blowing out Iowa at home *ANY* day of the week over beating cupcakes & being destroyed late in the Season.

Tell me you're not happy with the DIRECTION the program is going? You're saying he's being paid to win... but he IS winning. If you want inflated records with a Defense that couldn't stop a balloon with a hedgehog then you should've been happy with Mason & Brewster...

All Kill has done is shown progress... when the team stop progressing I will be more scolding of him but all I've seen is progress every year, sorry...
 

thailleagle said:
Would you rather had things went different this Season & beat Marshall in the Insight Bowl?

I'd rather have QUALITY wins REGARDLESS OF RECORD then CUPCAKE WINS with a 10+ record.

Kill is doing something we haven't seen in a long time. Winning in November. Sorry but that's progress regardless of record. I'm not into numbers, I'm not into stats or box scores.

I'll take close games against Ohio State, Wisconsin & TCU (who is arguably starting the season #1 next year) & wins against Nebraska & Michigan & blowing out Iowa at home *ANY* day of the week over beating cupcakes & being destroyed late in the Season.

Tell me you're not happy with the DIRECTION the program is going? You're saying he's being paid to win... but he IS winning. If you want inflated records with a Defense that couldn't stop a balloon with a hedgehog then you should've been happy with Mason & Brewster...

All Kill has done is shown progress... when the team stop progressing I will be more scolding of him but all I've seen is progress every year, sorry...
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As I said in my original post, I agree with a lot of what you said and I do like coach Kill. There are just certain things that I see with this coaching staff that concerns me and question whether Kill can win the big games...particularly on the offensive side of the ball. (I know the d gave up a lot of yards today, but I put a lot of that on the offense's poor output.) While overall this season was a success, I don't see it as big of a jump this year compared to last year.
 

He played it safe because it gave us the best chance to win. We don't have a passing game yet that is going to move the ball 50 yards in 1 minute when the other team knows we have to pass. Like thailleagle said, that wasn't his MO at Northern or Southern Illinois. When our passing game improves, it won't be here either.
 



thailleagle said:
Honest answer... if Mitch had gone out there & thrown a Pick 6... would you NOT be questioning Kill's decision KNOWING Mitch is not a reliable passer? Honestly? We'd be down 10 with ZERO momentum coming out in the Half. At least they went into the Half KNOWING they were still in it as opposed to being winded down 10.

I know we weren't guaranteed to throw a Pick 6 but I love how everyone just automatically assumes we were going to get points...
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BULL.... We have seen it repeatedly that Kill and the offense do not trust in the abilities of our players. Missouri was running scared, they pulled out all the stops and gambled to get on top. We took a knee at halftime... Major message sent to your players that you are affraid that they can't get it done!!! Don't go placing the blame on Mitch, he was the better QB in the game. Missouri kept letting their QB make plays. The two big runs in the 4th quarter were from misreads by the LB's that took them out of their lanes.

I am very happy with the progress that Kill has made and the direction of the team is going, I just wish they wouldn't put handcuffs on the players. it is obvious that they let an afraid to lose (or make a mistake) mentality override the desire to win. Missouri was not afraid to make a mistake, they knew they were in trouble, so they throw caution to the wind and had the balls to win. Something our coaches need to learn.
 

alchemy2u said:
BULL.... We have seen it repeatedly that Kill and the offense do not trust in the abilities of our players. Missouri was running scared, they pulled out all the stops and gambled to get on top. We took a knee at halftime... Major message sent to your players that you are affraid that they can't get it done!!! Don't go placing the blame on Mitch, he was the better QB in the game. Missouri kept letting their QB make plays. The two big runs in the 4th quarter were from misreads by the LB's that took them out of their lanes.

I am very happy with the progress that Kill has made and the direction of the team is going, I just wish they wouldn't put handcuffs on the players. it is obvious that they let an afraid to lose (or make a mistake) mentality override the desire to win. Missouri was not afraid to make a mistake, they knew they were in trouble, so they throw caution to the wind and had the balls to win. Something our coaches need to learn.
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Or do they fully realize the limitations of their players?
 

No one on GH believes in ML7, yet everyone is upset Kill didn't. He did what he felt is right. It is his job to make that call. He knows better than us.
 

I guess my biggest issue with it is not even calling a timeout after Williams got the first down. You don't even have to throw the ball in that situation. Call a conservative play and see if you get anything from it and go from there. Maxx made a great play and provided another opportunity. Even if you run the ball and get nothing, Missouri didn't have enough timeouts to keep stopping the clock. Deciding to not drop back and throw the ball downfield? That I completely get.
 

3 timeouts and a strong legged kicker and we didn't even try. You could see the frustration of the offensive players that they weren't going for it. Not the message that you send your team before halftime. ML was completing passes and our short passing game was working. Not many yards needed to be in field goal range and we went to the locker room with 3 timeouts. Why, because we were getting the ball back to start the second half. Well we saw how that worked. Pinkel rolled the dice during the game and Kill and Co. went way too conservative. Like what Jerry has done but this was a major mistake in this game in my opinion. This coaching staff better improve on time management. Messed up at half and when we were down 2 scores the offense was in no hurry and calling running plays???? You can't pull this crap against quality opponents.
 

thailleagle said:
I've watched Kill at Southern & Northern because living in Chicago I have a lot of friends that have played for him at both schools & have watched TONS of games...

Kill didn't play it safe at Northern Illinois because he had a QB that was VERY capable of putting up 250 yards consistently. He has had solid QB's everywhere he has went. Minnesota is a different situation because he needs to be able to attract a skilled enough QB to play at THIS level. Mac schools can recruit overlooked Big Ten caliber players to play on a Mac level but the Big Ten (Power Conference) *IS* the highest level. Kill has Minnesota solid at the Run Game, Defense & Special Teams like we haven't seen in a while.

I'll trust them until I see us decline but there's been steady progress since he's been here.

Look at us... bitching after a January Bowl loss against an SEC team when Kill took over a team that lost to New Mexico State his first season.

"Brick By Brick"... stop judging everything play by play or game by game. His body of work at Minnesota has progress EVERY season. What more do you want? You expected us to be #1 National Champions after 3 years? Be honest, some of you "FANS" would've NEVER guessed we'd be playing January 1st after the Illinois loss. Go back to that game thread... I said I wasn't worried because you could SEE the team was heading in the right direction.

Does Jerry do some questionable things? Yes... guess what? ALL COACHES DO...

Does Jerry do some things that make me go "WTF?" Yes... guess what? ALL COACHES DO...

Spurs fans were calling Popavich an idiot up until Game 4 of the NBA Finals so miss me with expecting Jerry Kill to be some perfect Jesus Christ of Coaching...

You could see the decline when Mason & Brewster were coaches. Jerry has shown NOTHING but progress...

WHEN WE STOP PROGRESSING, THEN WORRY...

I don't care for "Moral Victories" but I DO put things in perspective...
Click to expand...

Statistically speaking, we did regress in the passing game, despite proclaiming that they were working on fixing it.

I'm not even that mad about today or this season, but Kill is not above doubt. Certainly things look bright and back to back 8-5 is a far cry from where we've been but the ability to win big games is a question Kill will and should continue to have to answer until he does.
 

John Galt said:
He played it safe because it gave us the best chance to win. We don't have a passing game yet that is going to move the ball 50 yards in 1 minute when the other team knows we have to pass. Like thailleagle said, that wasn't his MO at Northern or Southern Illinois. When our passing game improves, it won't be here either.
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We didn't need to move it 50 yards in one minute. We had three timeouts, and we were about 25 yards from field goal range. We could have run a series of three 8-10 yard pass plays, called a timeout after each of them to talk about what we wanted to do next, and then kick field goal. I agree I don't want Leidner blindly chucking the ball around the field, but if you don't trust your quarterback to drop back, survey the field, and find a throw you can make that won't get picked off, then that guy shouldn't be your quarterback. Plus, Leidner threw the ball very well in the first half, so its not a situation where he's playing terrible and you want to get him into the locker room to take a breather and get a fresh start before he makes another mistake.
 

If we don't go for a FG at the end of the 1st half because of our personal then that's on Kill.

Either it's really conservative play-calling or it's no faith in your personal. Either is damning in your 4th year in a bowl game
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
We didn't need to move it 50 yards in one minute. We had three timeouts, and we were about 25 yards from field goal range. We could have run a series of three 8-10 yard pass plays, called a timeout after each of them to talk about what we wanted to do next, and then kick field goal. I agree I don't want Leidner blindly chucking the ball around the field, but if you don't trust your quarterback to drop back, survey the field, and find a throw you can make that won't get picked off, then that guy shouldn't be your quarterback. Plus, Leidner threw the ball very well in the first half, so its not a situation where he's playing terrible and you want to get him into the locker room to take a breather and get a fresh start before he makes another mistake.
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If I remember correctly, we had the ball at our 25 yard line. We would have needed to get to their 35 in order to attempt a 53 yard FG, so that's 40 yards. I'm curious, when this year have you seen us complete a series of 8-10 yard passes and move the ball quickly downfield?
 

GophAroundGuy said:
Somebody please explain, why play so conservative when we have nothing to lose?
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I just watched Oregon, one of the best passing teams in the country, go for it at the end of the half and throw an interception. They were lucky it didn't cost them 3 points. Hey, but at least they can stick their chests out Uncle Rico style and say they didn't "play it safe."

I'm all for taking calculated risks when it plays to the strength of your team. Not when it is your biggest weakness.
 

John Galt said:
If I remember correctly, we had the ball at our 25 yard line. We would have needed to get to their 35 in order to attempt a 53 yard FG, so that's 40 yards. I'm curious, when this year have you seen us complete a series of 8-10 yard passes and move the ball quickly downfield?
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Never, because this coaching staff will now allow it.
 

Mitch was throwing the ball real well today. There are many teams, even Missouri, that wish they had a QB play like Mitch did today. You can't be afraid to let you players make plays.

The lack of confidence and basically taking a knee before the half took the wind out of the sails of the offense. They struggled after that and didn't play with confidence. It is hard for a group of players to play with confidence when the coaches don't have any!! If Mitch had started out like the Mizzou QB, our coaches would not have let him throw another pass in the game. But look how the Mizzou coach let his QB play and counted on him to get it done. We have to play with a swagger, and not with our tail between our legs.

The biggest problem I had with Mason was that the players never thought they were good enough to win the big games. I think our player feel they can win, but I am beginning to doubt the coaches feel that way.
 

Of course we don't want to make stupid plays, but out coaches DIDN'T EVEN TRY to move the ball at the end of the half. They just let the clock run out.
 

John Galt said:
If I remember correctly, we had the ball at our 25 yard line. We would have needed to get to their 35 in order to attempt a 53 yard FG, so that's 40 yards. I'm curious, when this year have you seen us complete a series of 8-10 yard passes and move the ball quickly downfield?
Click to expand...

I think people are more upset that we didn't try after we completed a pass to get a first down. After that play, it was first down at the 36 yard line. We had three timeouts with about 50 seconds left. Hurry up and run a conservative pass play. If it doesn't work, then maybe run it and get into halftime. If it does, then maybe take a shot downfield.

Instead we don't hurry up, yet still throw the ball? Doesn't make any sense.
 

John Galt said:
He played it safe because it gave us the best chance to win. We don't have a passing game yet that is going to move the ball 50 yards in 1 minute when the other team knows we have to pass. Like thailleagle said, that wasn't his MO at Northern or Southern Illinois. When our passing game improves, it won't be here either.
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Hope you're right because there has been a consistent problem with QBs and receivers (leaving, being kicked off, etc.). Yet Mitch looked very good today most of the way.
 

This is funny. Like any fan, I would like to see the team go for it, be aggressive, caution to the wind. That's why I'm not running a B1G program and I'm guessing no one else on GH is either.

Oregon, with it's high-flying offense, went for it with 36 seconds left, threw a pick and almost let FSU get points. As for our strong-legged kicker, does anybody remember the blocked FG return for a TD a few games ago? Yes, Missouri was pulling out all the stops, but not because that's what everyone does in a bowl game. They did it because they were getting mauled and everyone on the field and sidelines knew it.

thailleagle makes some excellent points. JK and his staff know this team better than anyone, and have coached a few games over the last few decades. The state of the program at SIU was an absolute joke. Go back and look it up. It was by far the most impressive turnaround of his career. Those who say he can't win big games have no idea how impressive it is that he has taken so many teams to those big games.

There are plenty on GH who seem to get it, but mostly this place is a cesspool of idiots. I wish there were threads on this site where the idiots couldn't post and good information was shared. I know I'm dreaming.
 

"cesspool of idiots". killme's Golden God taking a bit of bashing and he can't take it.
 

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