PJ and Prime College Football Recruiting Perspective Discussion

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gopherphil said:
Colorado is a whole different beast than Jackson state. I’m not sold that Primetime is a P5 HC. I not old enough to remember when Brewster put together a top 25 class and the guy was why in over his head.
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a lot will ride on whether his boy can handle the step up in competition. he has got his dad's persona, so will be interesting when things get tough how he handles it

they start out with TCU and Nebraska so they got some solid tests for him right away
 

Gophs24 said:
a lot will ride on whether his boy can handle the step up in competition. he has got his dad's persona, so will be interesting when things get tough how he handles it

they start out with TCU and Nebraska so they got some solid tests for him right away
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And NEB will be coming off a loss with redemption in their minds. ;)
 

Let's see how OL recruiting goes for all these coaches, Rhule, Fickle, Fleck, Sanders.

Sanders has two HS in his class and 2 transfers. One is a 2* from Jackson State. (14 on current roster all listed as Freshmen or Sophomore except 2 Juniors)

Rhule got 4 in state guys and no transfers. (23 on current roster, so seems to have a decent base)

Fickell got 1 and it's the top kid in this group of teams, a 4* from Arizona (16 on current roster)

Fleck got 5 HS kids including a 4*. (15 returning from my count and most established group with coaching)


This is just data at this point and hard to read into it, but it's one of the most critical spots to recruit in football.
 


60's Guy said:
What recruiting advantage does Nebraska have over Minnesota to constantly have better recruiting classes?
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Still riding the Osborne days but I feel that is slowly fading. It is mystifying.
 


to get the higher class rankings - top 25 or above -

you have to land the big fish - multiple 4* players or get one or two 5* players.

that is the thing that separates MN from other schools.

Gophers land a lot of high 3* players, and might get one or two 4*. let's compare

OK - according to 247
OSU 1-5*, 18-4* -- avg per recruit 93.57 (5th Nationally)
PSU 1-5*, 15-4* -- 91.03 (13th nationally)
Mich 9-4* -- 88.80 (17th nationally)
MSU 9-4* -- 89.79 (25th nationally)
Neb 3-4* -- 87.17 (28th nationally)
Mary 3-4* -- 86.29 (34th nationally)
WI 3-4* -- 87.31
MN 2-4* -- 86.50 (41st Nationally)
Ill 2-4* -- 85.91
 


60's Guy said:
2023 Overall Football Team Rankings
Imagine you are PJ Fleck...you are excited about your years of long work in building relationships to recruit the 2023 Gophers to the #41 Ranked class overall. You feel good about it. Proud of your accomplishments.

Then you hear in about a weeks time that Deion has put together the #29 ranked overall class. And I don't think anybody would argue that by February or sooner it will be a Top 20 overall class.

Gotta chafe you a little bit if you're a guy worried when people are saying you're gonna get fired after losing to Iowa 7 times in a row and you feel you gotta try and shame Wisconsin for talking to one of your recruits. Man, how do live with yourself when Deion raced past your years of work in a few days?
PS They are 29 and 41 at 11:30 pm Dec 21...sure the numbers will bounce.
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You easily win the Golden Douche Bag post of the day. Congratulations!
 

Gophs24 said:
a lot will ride on whether his boy can handle the step up in competition. he has got his dad's persona, so will be interesting when things get tough how he handles it

they start out with TCU and Nebraska so they got some solid tests for him right away
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Scott Frost was 17-0 before he took the Nebbie job. It is hard to read how successful Prime Time will be out of the gate. Maybe reality bites. Maybe he gets lucky with his recruits and has early success.
 



I'm A Maroon 2! said:
I still cant help but think no one does less with more than Franklin at PSU.
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Recently, Jimbo Fisher at Texas A$M is the king of doing less with more. Whoever happens to coach the Texas Longhorns in any given year comes close.
 

60's Guy said:
I'd have to agree with those but lots of players who go to Minnesota live here for many years
after they graduate. Does that happen in Nebraska?
Post career opportunities are overwhelming in our favor. Business in general and Fortune 500 companies.
Pro sports teams to follow and connect with.
The outdoors opportunities here vs Nebraska. The variety of experiences. Corn maze in Nebraska probably only fun once.
The cultural and shopping opportunities again are overwhelming in our favor.
I'm not the recruiting guy but everything but fan base and dedicated athletic department we blow them away. And I think athletic department factor and fan base was a bigger deal before all the teams get $100 million dollars.
In short we have a ton of advantages they do not.
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These are advantages for adults seeking employment, not for teenagers deciding which is the best college town to live in.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
You easily win the Golden Douche Bag post of the day. Congratulations!
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I would have had harsher words for what appears to be the worst, most ignorant post I’ve seen in GH in the several years since I joined. But you said it well and succinctly. That had to be a troll’s post right?
 

Gophergrandpa said:
I would have had harsher words for what appears to be the worst, most ignorant post I’ve seen in GH in the several years since I joined. But you said it well and succinctly. That had to be a troll’s post right?
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Well, as the title of the post suggested... the thread was started to have a discussion. I'd say it was pretty successful in its' intent. There are a lot of good points that were contributed here. Reading between the lines there is also a lot that is unspoken here.

Then of course you gotta have the haters, bashers and name callers who can't express an opinion without tearing down and attacking the other guy. Puff that chest out! You da man!
 



60's Guy said:
2023 Overall Football Team Rankings
Imagine you are PJ Fleck...you are excited about your years of long work in building relationships to recruit the 2023 Gophers to the #41 Ranked class overall. You feel good about it. Proud of your accomplishments.

Then you hear in about a weeks time that Deion has put together the #29 ranked overall class. And I don't think anybody would argue that by February or sooner it will be a Top 20 overall class.

Gotta chafe you a little bit if you're a guy worried when people are saying you're gonna get fired after losing to Iowa 7 times in a row and you feel you gotta try and shame Wisconsin for talking to one of your recruits. Man, how do live with yourself when Deion raced past your years of work in a few days?
PS They are 29 and 41 at 11:30 pm Dec 21...sure the numbers will bounce.
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Maybe it would be better to start with "How are stars determined?"

It comes down to exposure and number of offers. The more exposure, the more offers an athlete receives. The more offers they receive, the higher the star. That is it. 247, for example, isn't out there evaluating talent themselves. They are aggregating other people's homework.

How does exposure happen? Performance on the field is one way (and probably the way many people think it happens), but it is not the ONLY way. Others include attending camps and performing well, putting together film packages and getting it in front of coaches and visiting schools to promote their brand. So it is part performance, part marketing. The better the marketing, the better the prospects at being noticed. Generally speaking, marketing involves $$$, so those with the means to spend more will get noticed more. They may or may not be a superior athlete.

In addition, more offers tend to beget even more offers as schools attempt to mitigate the fear of missing out. Sometimes these schools are offering kids sight unseen simply because a rival did first. But it counts as an offer, even if the school did precisely jack squat to assess the kid.

Does all this mean a 3-star is demonstrably "worse" than a 4-star? Not even close. That 4-star may have received several more offers because they were better connected and marketed to schools, not because they had a better 40 time and scored 25 TD's instead of 10.

The question is, do you trust coaches who have played the game and have evaluated talent for years and years to assess a kid's talent, or do you trust a bunch of writers who gather and aggregate offers and slap a star on a kid?

This is how somebody like Justin Jefferson ends up with a low 3-star rating out of high school but ends up being arguably the best wideout in the NFL today. Meanwhile, 4-star Markus Allen can't decide what outfit he is going to wear tomorrow. I'll take JJ every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
These are advantages for adults seeking employment, not for teenagers deciding which is the best college town to live in.
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Ya, live for today, right? Nobody ever graduates. Nice counseling. Great mentorship.
Or move to Nebraska if you don't think Minnesota is superior.
 

DarthGopher said:
Maybe it would be better to start with "How are stars determined?"

It comes down to exposure and number of offers. The more exposure, the more offers an athlete receives. The more offers they receive, the higher the star. That is it. 247, for example, isn't out there evaluating talent themselves. They are aggregating other people's homework.

How does exposure happen? Performance on the field is one way (and probably the way many people think it happens), but it is not the ONLY way. Others include attending camps and performing well, putting together film packages and getting it in front of coaches and visiting schools to promote their brand. So it is part performance, part marketing. The better the marketing, the better the prospects at being noticed. Generally speaking, marketing involves $$$, so those with the means to spend more will get noticed more. They may or may not be a superior athlete.

In addition, more offers tend to beget even more offers as schools attempt to mitigate the fear of missing out. Sometimes these schools are offering kids sight unseen simply because a rival did first. But it counts as an offer, even if the school did precisely jack squat to assess the kid.

Does all this mean a 3-star is demonstrably "worse" than a 4-star? Not even close. That 4-star may have received several more offers because they were better connected and marketed to schools, not because they had a better 40 time and scored 25 TD's instead of 10.

The question is, do you trust coaches who have played the game and have evaluated talent for years and years to assess a kid's talent, or do you trust a bunch of writers who gather and aggregate offers and slap a star on a kid?

This is how somebody like Justin Jefferson ends up with a low 3-star rating out of high school but ends up being arguably the best wideout in the NFL today. Meanwhile, 4-star Markus Allen can't decide what outfit he is going to wear tomorrow. I'll take JJ every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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You got a lot of holes in your essay. Justin Jefferson is a bad example for argument.
Without his brothers blazing his trail he may be working in a bank or restaurant.
No Stars to Superstar
It's an hour long phone call...there is something to what you are saying but it's not that black and white. There is a lot of gray. Lots...maybe the majority of coaches cannot evaluate.
Do Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Ohio State live at the top of the recruitings? Do they compete for the playoffs every year?
 
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60's Guy said:
Ya, live for today, right? Nobody ever graduates. Nice counseling. Great mentorship.
Or move to Nebraska if you don't think Minnesota is superior.
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Who is he counceling or mentoring? Maybe he is expressing an opinion on what football prospects are thinking about during recruitment.

Here's another opinion. The ones from out of state, and especially those from the south, are not envisioning they will spend their adult lives in the Twin Cities any more than in Lincoln.
 

60's Guy said:
You got a lot of holes in your essay. Justin Jefferson is a bad example for argument.
Without his brothers blazing his trail he may be working in a bank or restaurant.
No Stars to Superstar
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Wow, who would have guessed JJ was an eyelash from bussing tables. Truly a little known fact.
 

Dakota2 said:
Who is he counceling or mentoring? Maybe he is expressing an opinion on what football prospects are thinking about during recruitment.

Here's another opinion. The ones from out of state, and especially those from the south, are not envisioning they will spend their adult lives in the Twin Cities any more than in Lincoln.
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And I'm talking about the recruiting advantages a builder of men, a recruiter, a counselor, a mentor, a father figure...all things PJ refers to himself as part of his job has as advantages at Minnesota over Nebraska.
The idea a kid might not be aware these advantages is suggesting PJ isn't going to tell him.
 

60's Guy said:
What recruiting advantage does Nebraska have over Minnesota to constantly have better recruiting classes?
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Definitely more alumni & fan support FOR SURE!

This season, they still had 90K+ butts in that stadium to start every home game when they are going through a losing season so they have more fan base than us! We barely can fill our 54K stadium at our HOMECOMING! 😆

Their alums donate $millions more than us Gophers alums, believe that! Shoot look at Scott’s buy out! Instead of waiting couple of more weeks, Scott’s buy out would’ve decreased by 50%, some wealthy alum said “F that, Use my money to get rid of him NOW!”

With these two FACTS, I can see more NIL opportunities to attract better and higher ranked recruits/players than Minnesota.

We about on par with Rutgers or Indiana and maybe even below them when it comes to fans and alums support. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

60's Guy said:
What recruiting advantage does Nebraska have over Minnesota to constantly have better recruiting classes?
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Here’s something that just popped up on Twitter

NEB > MINN

 


60's Guy said:
And I'm talking about the recruiting advantages a builder of men, a recruiter, a counselor, a mentor, a father figure...all things PJ refers to himself as part of his job has as advantages at Minnesota over Nebraska.
The idea a kid might not be aware these advantages is suggesting PJ isn't going to tell him.
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Every coach sells his school and locale.
 



We've been literally a handful of plays away from double digit win seasons in three of the last four years. PJ knows what he's doing, recruiting ratings aren't as relevant as recruiting to your strengths and playstyle. We bring in a lot of service academy offer guys, straight up rock and roll on defense year in and out, and the guys we bring in generally have a humbleness that doesn't exist in a lot, if not most, high 4 to 5 star guys. We also graduate kids at a high GPA like gangbusters.

I have zero issue with any of the recruiting ranking stuff not being top whatever. It's mostly for the people paying to read it, IMO.
 

60's Guy said:
I'd have to agree with those but lots of players who go to Minnesota live here for many years
after they graduate. Does that happen in Nebraska?
Post career opportunities are overwhelming in our favor. Business in general and Fortune 500 companies.
Pro sports teams to follow and connect with.
The outdoors opportunities here vs Nebraska. The variety of experiences. Corn maze in Nebraska probably only fun once.
The cultural and shopping opportunities again are overwhelming in our favor.
I'm not the recruiting guy but everything but fan base and dedicated athletic department we blow them away. And I think athletic department factor and fan base was a bigger deal before all the teams get $100 million dollars.
In short we have a ton of advantages they do not.
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No offends, but I don’t think that matters thst people stay in Minneapolis post-graduation. It makes us a better city but probably a worse college town. I can’t think of any major cities that are good college sports towns.
 


This probably makes the AD look the worst. Take it with a grain of salt as I can’t say it’s been verified or anything.

 

PJ Fleck and Prime Time have contrasting debonair coaching styles.

It is hard to figure out what Prime Time's legacy will be in Colorado. He is a slick recruiter with a prosperous NFL career to back up his swagger. Will he attract a different type of player more focused on the NFL than a college education? Will he take care of the rest of the team academically, socially, and physically similar to the Gophers?

The Gophers' developmental program is fundamentally sound. The most important aspect of the Gophers program is that they shape boys into men. They will leave the program with skills that set them up for success.

The Gophers sent a few former three-star and four-star players into the NFL in the PJ Fleck Era:
2019 NFL Draft - (1) Blake Cashman.
2020 NFL Draft - (5) Carter Coughlin, Antoine Winfield Jr., Tyler Johnson, Kama Martin, and Chris Williamson.
2021 NFL Draft, Covid shortened season (2) - Rashod Bateman and Benjamin St. Juste.
2022 NFL Draft - (4) Daniel Faalele, Boye Mafe, Ko Kieft, and Esezi Otomewo.

The Gophers have developed three-star players like Antoine Winfield Jr. and Boye Mafe into 4-star to 5-star caliber players.

For a middling-tier football program, this is quite an accomplishment. I expect the trend to continue.

Will PJ Fleck and Prime Time reach a higher level of recruiting success? Time will tell. Prime Time is more likely to get there quicker. If PJ Fleck reaches a point where he can recruit half a dozen legitimate four-star players and even a five-star player, he will be in the college football playoff conversation. Developing players in the program is not enough.

If a college football program's success is a measure of the number of wins and titles, PJ Fleck has to recruit at a higher level. You have to have enough talent to reach the pinnacle of success.

Legitimate four-star and five-star players will take a college football team to great heights. It is no accident that 62.5% of NFL first-round picks in the NFL 2022 Draft are four and five-star players.

Don't despair! Three-star players comprise 45.8% of the 2022 NFL Draft. Five-star players amount to only 7.3%, and four-star players accounted for 31.3% of the players drafted.

Five-star and four-star players' draft rates are 59.4% and 22.3%.

Three-star players have a draft rate of 7.9%. There are more of them.

www.on3.com

2022 NFL Draft by Stars

A list of 2022 NFL drafted players per state by star rating.
www.on3.com www.on3.com
 

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