Payton Willis

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bga1

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This kid has amazed me this year. It hasn't mattered how they defend him, he has still consistently gotten it done. He has become a terrific shooter and really solid ball handler who has length. I never thought I would say this, but is there a chance that he gets some run with an NBA team at some point. Right now, he is a better college player than Coffey was when he left. I get that Coffey has more length and athleticism, but Willis is very crafty almost in a poor man's Sam Cassel way...
 

bga1 said:
This kid has amazed me this year. It hasn't mattered how they defend him, he has still consistently gotten it done. He has become a terrific shooter and really solid ball handler who has length. I never thought I would say this, but is there a chance that he gets some run with an NBA team at some point. Right now, he is a better college player than Coffey was when he left. I get that Coffey has more length and athleticism, but Willis is very crafty almost in a poor man's Sam Cassel way...
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Willis has been awesome this year and played way above any expectations anyone could have had for him. That said, I doubt he would cut it in the NBA as a PG. My guess is that he heads to Europe after this year and makes some money overseas.
 

Agreed that Willis has been awesome, but I'd take issue with saying he's better than Coffey was as a Junior
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Agreed that Willis has been awesome, but I'd take issue with saying he's better than Coffey was as a Junior
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Coffey was a better athlete, but way more inconsistent than Willis has been. Coffey played really well down the stretch, but had some awful games shooting as well. Would have loved to see Coffey with a staff like this year though - think he would have been so much more successful in his time here as he would have been put in much better position game to game.
 



Zeppelin Gopher said:
Agreed that Willis has been awesome, but I'd take issue with saying he's better than Coffey was as a Junior
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Much more consistent than Amir was. That's what unnerved about Amir. Granted, I'll give Amir some slack because he was playing in a much more disorganized scheme than Willis is. I do wonder if he is benefiting from a system that guys know how to play and creates a little room for him.

Edit: Didn't mean to plagiarize Tucker's post. I didn't read before I posted.
 

He might get a look. I'm not sure if he has a position at the next level but he has really improved. He is also really old for a recruit. He is the same class as Amir.

As to the Van Vleet comparison, they were similar offensively but Van Vleet was a better ball handler and a better defender. It would be like if someone like Nolan (but even better defender) put up Payton's offensive numbers.

I think Payton's path to the NBA would be more as a scorer.
 

Tucker32 said:
Coffey was a better athlete, but way more inconsistent than Willis has been. Coffey played really well down the stretch, but had some awful games shooting as well. Would have loved to see Coffey with a staff like this year though - think he would have been so much more successful in his time here as he would have been put in much better position game to game.
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They were completely different players. Getting to the NBA as an athletic wing who can dribble a bit, rebound a bit, and shoot a bit is MUCH easier than combo scoring guard. Amir also had the misfortune of playing out of position for a big chunk of college. I get that he got to shoot more, but adding 5 pull up jumpshots off the dribble per game did not help his stock.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
They were completely different players. Getting to the NBA as an athletic wing who can dribble a bit, rebound a bit, and shoot a bit is MUCH easier than combo scoring guard. Amir also had the misfortune of playing out of position for a big chunk of college. I get that he got to shoot more, but adding 5 pull up jumpshots off the dribble per game did not help his stock.
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He’s been featured in the pick and roll offense as the ball handler during his hot streak with the clippers. He’s arguably playing the same role he played at Minnesota.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
He might get a look. I'm not sure if he has a position at the next level but he has really improved. He is also really old for a recruit. He is the same class as Amir.

As to the Van Vleet comparison, they were similar offensively but Van Vleet was a better ball handler and a better defender. It would be like if someone like Nolan (but even better defender) put up Payton's offensive numbers.

I think Payton's path to the NBA would be more as a scorer.
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Haha, right… they are both 24 years old right now!! Why do we need to compare a 21 yo Coffey to a 24 yo Willis?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They were completely different players. Getting to the NBA as an athletic wing who can dribble a bit, rebound a bit, and shoot a bit is MUCH easier than combo scoring guard. Amir also had the misfortune of playing out of position for a big chunk of college. I get that he got to shoot more, but adding 5 pull up jumpshots off the dribble per game did not help his stock.
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Agreed.
 

bc2211 said:
Haha, right… they are both 24 years old right now!! Why do we need to compare a 21 yo Coffey to a 24 yo Willis?
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Calm down. We don't need to, it's just a point of reference.

Amir now (24 years old) is likely way better than he was at 21. Athletes age and get better and then they get worse.

Looking at a draft prospects age is actually a really common thing. Settle down.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Calm down. We don't need to, it's just a point of reference.

Amir now (24 years old) is likely way better than he was at 21. Athletes age and get better and then they get worse.

Looking at a draft prospects age is actually a really common thing. Settle down.
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Don’t read too much into exclamation points if they bother you. It’s a stylistic writing chose, not necessarily a correlated to conviction. I use them light heartedly - the comparison is interesting enough to react to. I think there’s a Seinfeld episode about this.
 

bc2211 said:
He’s been featured in the pick and roll offense as the ball handler during his hot streak with the clippers. He’s arguably playing the same role he played at Minnesota.
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I guess you could argue that. IMO, it isn't a very good argument. I've watched him quite a bit and this didn't seem to be true from my eye test. So I looked up some numbers.

I looked it up and it's not. His usage% this season is 14%. That's in-line with a wing player that doesn't have the offense ran through him. It's about the same as Jaden McDaniels and Taureen Prince on the Timberwolves.

He averages 1.3 dribbles per touch (almost all ball dominant players are about 5 dribbles per touch). His number is on the low end for a wing. Those numbers put him pretty firmly in the range of a non-ball dominant wing.

In my opinion, you're confusing being able to dribble and score with being forced into a role as the lead guard.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I guess you could argue that. IMO, it isn't a very good argument. I've watched him quite a bit and this didn't seem to be true from my eye test. So I looked up some numbers.

I looked it up and it's not. His usage% this season is 14%. That's in-line with a wing player that doesn't have the offense ran through him. It's about the same as Jaden McDaniels and Taureen Prince on the Timberwolves.

He averages 1.3 dribbles per touch (almost all ball dominant players are about 5 dribbles per touch). His number is on the low end for a wing. Those numbers put him pretty firmly in the range of a non-ball dominant wing.

In my opinion, you're confusing being able to dribble and score with being forced into a role as the lead guard.
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I’m basing off of the Zach Lowe’s write up from a few days ago.

“But the clips have nudged him into emergency ball handling duty, and he has been up to the challenge. The Clips like slingshotting him around one off-ball screen and into hand off actions.

Coffey gets the ball at full throttle, with a buffer of space behind him. He has a knack for that cross-court laser to corner shooters. The Clips have scored 1.24 points per possession when Coffey shoots out of a pick-and-roll, or passes to a teammate who launches — third amount 232 ball handlers who have run at least 50 such plays, per Second Spectrum (Coffey has run only 90).”
 


He’ll make a nice living for himself playing basketball, I highly doubt that it’s in the NBA though.
 


Willis' difficulty in making the league is he's a tweener. At the college level, he's making his own shot (I really like him off the pick and roll with his slow play where he lets the defender ride his back, a la Chris Paul. not saying he's as good at it as Paul, but that he's the most famous example of doing this). He doesn't set as a knockdown 3 and D guy or floor spacer with length that's very in fashion in the NBA now. He'd be a 2nd platoon go and score guy (similar to Malik Monk for the Lakers or Reggie Jackson for the Clips prior to all their injury issues). I don't know if he's quite fast/athletic enough to make that transition to the NBA level where there will bigger/longer/faster defenders on him. He's been a nice surprise this year in his progression so he may have an option for G league/2 way contract, but I'd say his game fits better at the Euro level.

As far as his comp to Coffey, they're grossly different players in style and what they're asked to do, so that's a really difficult comparison to make. If you watch the Clips play when Coffey was on the ball, it was a dribble hand off around a pick and either sling it or shoot it. It was pretty rare he was driving/dribbling it, which is the role that he played at MN. Willis holds the ball far longer and is the initiator on his pick and roll opportunities.
 

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