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BigGopherFan said:
For what its worth, he is ranked as a "72" on ESPN, meaning "Player could be a three- or four-year contributor with an opportunity to eventually start at a low-major program."

I don't like this. At all! Cole frickin' Stefan is a 90! Why not just throw a scholarship his way too. Maybe he can convert to PG! ;)
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Actually 72 (for Ahanmisi) or 73 (for Oseneiks) means ESPN has seen neither player much, if at all.

Ignore numbers and ratings. College coaches often do.
 


BigGopherFan said:
For what its worth, he is ranked as a "72" on ESPN, meaning "Player could be a three- or four-year contributor with an opportunity to eventually start at a low-major program."

I don't like this. At all! Cole frickin' Stefan is a 90! Why not just throw a scholarship his way too. Maybe he can convert to PG! ;)
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For what its worth, Devoe Joseph was ranked 76, and I think he's an okay player. Yes, I understand he was more heralded elsewhere, but just saying, that ranking doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. I think Al Nolen was also in the mid 70s, but they must have purged the '07 rankings cause I don't see them anymore.

And the ESPN rankings actually say for players ranked in the 70s: (70-79: Major/Mid-Major Prospect) "Player either can earn a scholarship to a top national Division I program or contribute significantly as a freshman at the mid-major level."
 

Monty519 said:
For what its worth, Devoe Joseph was ranked 76, and I think he's an okay player. Yes, I understand he was more heralded elsewhere, but just saying, that ranking doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. I think Al Nolen was also in the mid 70s, but they must have purged the '07 rankings cause I don't see them anymore.

And the ESPN rankings actually say for players ranked in the 70s: (70-79: Major/Mid-Major Prospect) "Player either can earn a scholarship to a top national Division I program or contribute significantly as a freshman at the mid-major level."
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I simply did not make up what ESPN states about players ranked in the 70-72 range. I'm not sure where you are seeing this 70-79 junk, but who cares. HERE is a link to what I'm talking about.
Your argument falls through, because yes, Devoe Joseph was ranked as a 4 star recruit on Scout.com and Rivlas as well.
Furthermore, Maverick isn't even recognized on Scout and Rivals. But again, who cares. The kid is going to serve as a backup for his entire career.
You are correct, rankings aren't always accurate, but when a player hasn't been ranked on two major recruiting databases as a SENIOR, I get a little worried.
 

BigGopherFan said:
I simply did not make up what ESPN states about players ranked in the 70-72 range. I'm not sure where you are seeing this 70-79 junk, but who cares. HERE is a link to what I'm talking about.
Your argument falls through, because yes, Devoe Joseph was ranked as a 4 star recruit on Scout.com and Rivlas as well.
Furthermore, Maverick isn't even recognized on Scout and Rivals. But again, who cares. The kid is going to serve as a backup for his entire career.
You are correct, rankings aren't always accurate, but when a player hasn't been ranked on two major recruiting databases as a SENIOR, I get a little worried.
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How in the world could you possibly know this?
 


BigGopherFan said:
I simply did not make up what ESPN states about players ranked in the 70-72 range. I'm not sure where you are seeing this 70-79 junk, but who cares. HERE is a link to what I'm talking about.
Your argument falls through, because yes, Devoe Joseph was ranked as a 4 star recruit on Scout.com and Rivlas as well.
Furthermore, Maverick isn't even recognized on Scout and Rivals. But again, who cares. The kid is going to serve as a backup for his entire career.
You are correct, rankings aren't always accurate, but when a player hasn't been ranked on two major recruiting databases as a SENIOR, I get a little worried.
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I don't know, I just clicked the rankings next to each player and that's what popped up. I see your link, so I guess they have two levels of ranking explanations. Whatever.

I wasn't really arguing that Maverick is gonna be the next Devoe Jospeh, since, as I pointed out and you also mentioned again, he was heralded in other services. I was just noting that the 72 or whatever in ESPN doesn't say much. And if the kid is a backup his entire career, is that so bad? Every school has the kids who are in the program who play maybe 10 minutes a game even by their senior year, but bring value and leadership throughout their time in a program. You don't need 13 4 and 5 star players to go make noise IMO. You need three or four "studs", or players who carry the mail for you. Then after that, it's about finding the right blend of players who fit your system and basically won't screw up the work done by the stars. Right now though, we are lacking some true studs, though with two and three years left for most of the last two classes, there's still hope for that.
 

BigGopherFan said:
I simply did not make up what ESPN states about players ranked in the 70-72 range. I'm not sure where you are seeing this 70-79 junk, but who cares. HERE is a link to what I'm talking about.
Your argument falls through, because yes, Devoe Joseph was ranked as a 4 star recruit on Scout.com and Rivlas as well.
Furthermore, Maverick isn't even recognized on Scout and Rivals. But again, who cares. The kid is going to serve as a backup for his entire career.
You are correct, rankings aren't always accurate, but when a player hasn't been ranked on two major recruiting databases as a SENIOR, I get a little worried.
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A lot of people said the same thing about Damian Johnson. There are tons and tons of stories of kids that were not high major recruits,3,4,5 star or whatever, that have starred at this level and beyond. Everybody thought that Dahlman was a great get for MSU and a big loss for us. Turns out that the non-recruit Shamala was a better player. Nobody thought the 7' Bryant would be much out of HS and two years later he was the 10th pick in the NBA draft. You can say stuff like this if you want but you sound foolish doing it.

Maverick's coach says the kid is one of the great late game finishers he's ever had. I like his coach's opinion over yours. Let's give him a chance.
 

Bottom line is if Al doesn't make the grades next year and Justin transfers, this kid needs to be able to contribute significantly right away. We don't need a project, we'll need a contributor. Not a contributor a year down the road or two years down the road. ... immediately.

If Al is eligible, we should be able to make do at the PG position, provided he & Devoe stay healthy.
 

It is a little concerning that Maverick wasn't really on anyone's radar. But, I'm interested in seeing him play. It sounds like he can shoot pretty well and is very aggressive.

One of the top players in the country last year, Wesley Johnson, wasn't recruited hard at all out of HS. 2 star I believe on scout and rivals.
 



If this was the class we signed in the fall, then the hand-wringing and second-guessing would be more warranted. Fact is, we've had 3 late defections and there is no guarantee that 2 other players will be back. If Al and Trevor aren't back and Devoe is injured, then we're screwed. It might not matter how many scholarships they've stockpiled. The team would be so poor that you'd have a hard time attracting any highly rated player.

Tubby feels he's got to cover himself and that should be good enough for us. Not ideal, but that's the way it is. Hopefully, a couple of these guys pan out. If not, Tubby so far has come up with scholarships when he's needed them.
 

Why is everyone bringing up exceptions to the rule? It's Damien Johnson this, Wes Johnson that. The bottom line is MOST kids who are unranked as a senior and rated as a 72 on ESPN do not turn out like DJ and Wes Johnson. Period. If you think about it, there are probably 10 cases of a poorly rated recruits sitting the bench or transferring to Division II for every one that excels and overachieves.
We shouldn't confuse HOPE with a PLAN. We are all HOPING Maverick turns out to be awesome, but we all know deep down that he's a desperation pick. The PLAN is for Nolen and Devoe to handle the PG duties. I don't care what anyone says, I'm simply not excited about this kid. I think its great that Tubby is filling the spot, but lets not get carried away thinking/hoping he becomes a great player. We could be set up for some serious issues this season if Al Nolen doesn't come back.
 

Monty519 said:
I don't know, I just clicked the rankings next to each player and that's what popped up. I see your link, so I guess they have two levels of ranking explanations. Whatever.

I wasn't really arguing that Maverick is gonna be the next Devoe Jospeh, since, as I pointed out and you also mentioned again, he was heralded in other services. I was just noting that the 72 or whatever in ESPN doesn't say much. And if the kid is a backup his entire career, is that so bad? Every school has the kids who are in the program who play maybe 10 minutes a game even by their senior year, but bring value and leadership throughout their time in a program. You don't need 13 4 and 5 star players to go make noise IMO. You need three or four "studs", or players who carry the mail for you. Then after that, it's about finding the right blend of players who fit your system and basically won't screw up the work done by the stars. Right now though, we are lacking some true studs, though with two and three years left for most of the last two classes, there's still hope for that.
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I agree 100 percent about the part of needing a couple studs and some role players. Problem is, the Gophers don't have the stud. Minnesota has some REALLY GOOD role players, but outside of Joseph, there really isn't a player that can simply take over a game. And even CJ is still growing as a player.
TUBBY SMITH NEEDS TO SIGN TWO TOP NOTCH RECRUITS FOR 2011 OR THE PROGRAM IS IN BIG TROUBLE.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Why is everyone bringing up exceptions to the rule? It's Damien Johnson this, Wes Johnson that. The bottom line is MOST kids who are unranked as a senior and rated as a 72 on ESPN do not turn out like DJ and Wes Johnson. Period. If you think about it, there are probably 10 cases of a poorly rated recruits sitting the bench or transferring to Division II for every one that excels and overachieves.
We shouldn't confuse HOPE with a PLAN. We are all HOPING Maverick turns out to be awesome, but we all know deep down that he's a desperation pick. The PLAN is for Nolen and Devoe to handle the PG duties. I don't care what anyone says, I'm simply not excited about this kid. I think its great that Tubby is filling the spot, but lets not get carried away thinking/hoping he becomes a great player. We could be set up for some serious issues this season if Al Nolen doesn't come back.
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Perhaps Tubby should fire Vince Taylor and hire you as a replacement?

Perhaps NOT!!!
 



BigGopherFan said:
Why is everyone bringing up exceptions to the rule? It's Damien Johnson this, Wes Johnson that. The bottom line is MOST kids who are unranked as a senior and rated as a 72 on ESPN do not turn out like DJ and Wes Johnson. Period. If you think about it, there are probably 10 cases of a poorly rated recruits sitting the bench or transferring to Division II for every one that excels and overachieves.
We shouldn't confuse HOPE with a PLAN. We are all HOPING Maverick turns out to be awesome, but we all know deep down that he's a desperation pick. The PLAN is for Nolen and Devoe to handle the PG duties. I don't care what anyone says, I'm simply not excited about this kid. I think its great that Tubby is filling the spot, but lets not get carried away thinking/hoping he becomes a great player. We could be set up for some serious issues this season if Al Nolen doesn't come back.
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I think the problem is that you spoke with such CERTAINTY that he would never be a good player for us. No one knows that. We get that he's a 72- whatever that is. Let's see what he does. We all wish we'd have signed CJ. Now we hope that Maverick, if he signs, is a hidden gem.
 

Why are people still complaining about this kid? We needed another pg. Do people really think there are better pg options left who we'd have a chance at signing? We didn't expect to have this many scholarships available or to be this thin at pg. If Nolen is back (which is most likely), then we should be fine at pg between playing him there and Devoe backing him up a little when he's not playing sg. If Nolen is ineligible or he or Devoe get hurt we'd be screwed at pg next year. It's not worth it to bank a scholarship.
 

I find it intereting that all of you are judging Maverick's potential and future playing time without ever seeing him play. The coaches are putting their careers on the line with thier recruiting decisions. I suspect they know more than we do.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Perhaps Tubby should fire Vince Taylor and hire you as a replacement?

Perhaps NOT!!!
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No, that would be the worst idea in the world. Vince Taylor knows more about recruiting players than I ever will.

I'm just disturbed that we are all HOPING that Maverick becomes a good player instead of PLANNING on him becoming a good player. Texas is PLANNING on Cory Joseph becoming a great player and UNC is PLANNING on Harrison Barnes becoming a great player.

Everyone is hoping. I want a plan.

Why is it so hard for people to accept that this is a move made out of desperation. Bottom line, Maverick may literally be the only Division I level prep PG the Gophers have any chance of signing at this point. He was not in the Gophers' plans even three weeks ago.

Would the Gophers be pursuing this kid if Al Nolen was coming back 100 percent? Absolutely not. We are entering dangerous territory with this last second recruiting. Are we just supposed to ignore every other major college scout that passed on him? I won't.

Maverick will need to severely overachieve for him to contribute in year one like we need him to. There is very little margin for error. If he lives up to his ranking, than he's the 9th/10th guy off the bench. If we miss on him, then he'll transfer to Division II. If he overachieves, then he becomes a decent player.

I don't like those odds.
 


bga1 said:
I think the problem is that you spoke with such CERTAINTY that he would never be a good player for us. No one knows that. We get that he's a 72- whatever that is. Let's see what he does. We all wish we'd have signed CJ. Now we hope that Maverick, if he signs, is a hidden gem.
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+1 Exactly. How many times during the season did you state something with absolute certainty and it turned out to be just the opposite? Multiple times!
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
You're making your own odds?
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OK fine. Maverick will be a great PG from Day 1. Every other major college program simply missed on him for the last four years. His ESPN ranking is unfair and inaccurate. The people that evaluated him are dumb and should be fired. So should everyone who failed to recognize his talent on Scout.com and Rivals.com.

Happy?
 

So, in order to make everyone happy, I am supposed to start EVERY sentence with: "in my opinion..."?

That way, it won't look like I am saying that something will happen with 100 percent certainty.
 

BigGopherFan said:
I'm just disturbed that we are all HOPING that Maverick becomes a good player instead of PLANNING on him becoming a good player. Texas is PLANNING on Cory Joseph becoming a great player and UNC is PLANNING on Harrison Barnes becoming a great player.

Everyone is hoping. I want a plan.
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I'm PLANNING on Maverick becoming a great player. Happy?
 


BGF, you really are passionate, which is great and I do enjoy reading your posts, but sometimes.....anyways, has the kid signed yet? You heard anything?
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
+1 Exactly. How many times during the season did you state something with absolute certainty and it turned out to be just the opposite? Multiple times!
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Hmm. You mean like when he declared that we WOULD lose the Wisconsin game at half-time? He wasn't hoping we would, but he was planning on it. Now you can see the difference. :D
 

I'll never understand how wrapped up in recruiting people get now. I almost miss the days when I didn't know who the player was until thier first game. They all had a blank slate unless they were big-time local guys.

The reality is that this is not that different then trying to pick stocks. Some may be safer bets then others, but they all have some chance of hitting it big and some chance of busting. And (almost) none of us here know enough to evaluate the subtle differences between them. Therefore, we go by what supposed impartial 3rd parties say. But they're not the ones doing the picking and in reality they don't know everything either. It only matters who's doing the picking for YOUR team. Our guy's not perfect, and our brokerage house may not be as prestigeous as the one he used to work for, but he's made a lot more right calls then most of the other guys, so I'll rest easy and let him do his job. And I'll resist the temptation to check the status constantly and instead let the results play themselves out on the court.
 

BigGopherFan, you are both very new to following recruiting and to this board. I like your passion, but it's tough to take some of your posts seriously when you write in such a definitive tone without having the answers.

Maverick is rated a 72 on ESPN, why do you put so much stock in this? I can understand having a "favorite" recruiting site, but this site currently lists Maverick as 6'5 and attending Mississippi Elite Christian Academy. Do you really want to base an opinion around that ranking?
 

It was asked a couple of posts ago, but it is now Wednesday evening and is there confirmation that he has signed with us?
 

No signing yet. It was reported that Maverick would be on campus for a visit today and that if everything went well he'd be offered a scholarship and commit.
 

I will be relieved if this kid signs. The team needs another guard for next year. Nolen is hardly a sure thing and what if there are injuries. Justin appears to be one foot out the door. TUbby had to sign the best guard he could.
 

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