***OFFICIAL IOWA AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

[leib0039]

To those who think that using a scholarship to accelerate Betts' admission was a good idea for a program short on quality guards with immediate eligibility, I'd ask the following: Have you ever seen another college basketball coach do this? I haven't in over 40 years of following the sport. Sure, sit-out transfers (who demonstrated something at their previous schools) were recruited all the time in the past but I've never seen a potential high school senior recruited as a sit out. Even if he did break his commitment after a prep school season, as USAF noted, he didn't fill a position of short-term need anyway.

I maybe am not understanding but Race Thompson is the answer most will point to as a success. He went to Indiana a year early, sat out to work on his body and skills and has then become a good 4 year player.

That said, I think it is foolish to do in today's day and age. The odds a kid gets better that year, then sticks around for 4 more years and is a big part of the team is about 1% or less. Kids are always looking for bigger and better, or aren't good enough. If they really think this year 0 2.0 thing is acceptable then why in games with basically 6 guys available are we not putting this kid out there to learn. I don't like Henley but I guess at least if we are going to be the worst team I'm school history and my options are to play samuels and TT or Henley and Betts I'd choose the later.

 

[USAF]

I maybe am not understanding but Race Thompson is the answer most will point to as a success. He went to Indiana a year early, sat out to work on his body and skills and has then become a good 4 year player.

That said, I think it is foolish to do in today's day and age. The odds a kid gets better that year, then sticks around for 4 more years and is a big part of the team is about 1% or less. Kids are always looking for bigger and better, or aren't good enough. If they really think this year 0 2.0 thing is acceptable then why in games with basically 6 guys available are we not putting this kid out there to learn. I don't like Henley but I guess at least if we are going to be the worst team I'm school history and my options are to play samuels and TT or Henley and Betts I'd choose the later.

Samuels for sure. Terrible coaches decision to offer him...even worse decision to invest playing time on him. Someone tell me something positive that accomplishes, now or later. Just one thing.

 

[bga1]

I maybe am not understanding but Race Thompson is the answer most will point to as a success. He went to Indiana a year early, sat out to work on his body and skills and has then become a good 4 year player.

That said, I think it is foolish to do in today's day and age. The odds a kid gets better that year, then sticks around for 4 more years and is a big part of the team is about 1% or less. Kids are always looking for bigger and better, or aren't good enough. If they really think this year 0 2.0 thing is acceptable then why in games with basically 6 guys available are we not putting this kid out there to learn. I don't like Henley but I guess at least if we are going to be the worst team I'm school history and my options are to play samuels and TT or Henley and Betts I'd choose the later.

Henley is going to be a very good player. Watch and see. He's much better than a month ago and a real PG along side of him will do wonders. He is going to be a defensive beast.

My confidence for the long term grew a little on Sunday. Ola Joseph is a tweener but he is going to be a good player. Payne has the raw materials and he will learn to stretch his game. I just haven't seen enough on Carrington to figure him out yet. They could have a nice team next year with a couple of more guards to set things up and defend.

The young guys are all a little raw but they are getting chances to play right now that they wouldn't be getting on other Big Ten teams with where their games are at. I think they are going to stick with Ben and grow. We'll know on all 4 of them by 10 games in next year whether they have done the work to really get better.

 

[cjbfbp]

Henley is going to be a very good player. Watch and see. He's much better than a month ago and a real PG along side of him will do wonders. He is going to be a defensive beast.

I don't know how good he will be but I agree that he is much better than he was a month ago. After not being able to dribble inside of the perimeter without losing the ball earlier in the season, he's now getting there regularly without problems and he's starting to convert those short jumpers. He's also seeing open players and delivering nice passes. I would say he is the player who has improved the most in the shortest period of time and I expect he will be even more improved next season.

 

[cjbfbp]

I maybe am not understanding but Race Thompson is the answer most will point to as a success. He went to Indiana a year early, sat out to work on his body and skills and has then become a good 4 year player.

That said, I think it is foolish to do in today's day and age. The odds a kid gets better that year, then sticks around for 4 more years and is a big part of the team is about 1% or less. Kids are always looking for bigger and better, or aren't good enough. If they really think this year 0 2.0 thing is acceptable then why in games with basically 6 guys available are we not putting this kid out there to learn. I don't like Henley but I guess at least if we are going to be the worst team I'm school history and my options are to play samuels and TT or Henley and Betts I'd choose the later.

Thank you for that information. I didn't know that about Thompson and I don't follow Indiana's recruiting moves very closely. So, it has been done before but, as you say, that doesn't make it a good idea especially for a team like ours that is perennially short on capable players.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Really both Cooper and Samuels are giant recruiting Ls. Recruiting Cooper as your start PG is really a poor judge of talent. He's a nice 6th man at the 2G in this league. Most could tell a couple weeks in that he was slow. Everyone on this team plays one position off of where they should it seems.

He’s not a 6th man on a good team. Maybe 8th or 9th

 

[cjbfbp]

Samuels for sure. Terrible coaches decision to offer him...even worse decision to invest playing time on him. Someone tell me something positive that accomplishes, now or later. Just one thing.

I don't have too much of a problem with giving a scholarship to a one-year player like Samuels to be a backup point guard for 10 minutes per game or less. As far as what he can do, well, he can handle and take care of the ball for limited minutes and give other players a breather. If he's playing more than that, you know your roster has issues. Henley's improvement in the last month thankfully has reduced Samuels' playing time.

 

[howeda7]

You keep ignoring the main question here. If the Gophers don't put him on scholarship....does he agree to it? Isn't that basically asking him to be a walk-on for the year?

No he wouldn't have been a walk on. He would have stayed in high school. He is supposed to be a HS Senior, but apparently had enough credits to graduate early. He would have enrolled next fall with Evans and Christie.

 

[howeda7]

Yes, at least one more. I will confess that I'm glad Ramberg got his scholarship. He may be limited but he has made the most of his minutes. We certainly could have done worse with his scholarship. He's contributed more than Thiam and Ogele combined did last year and probably more than Charlie Daniels did most games last season. I hope that Johnson continues his scholarship for next year. If Johnson needs roster spaces to recruit transfers, tell Thompson that he would be better off transferring and tell Fox that he's not getting three years of an athletic scholarship as a grad transfer.

To those who think that using a scholarship to accelerate Betts' admission was a good idea for a program short on quality guards with immediate eligibility, I'd ask the following: Have you ever seen another college basketball coach do this? I haven't in over 40 years of following the sport. Sure, sit-out transfers (who demonstrated something at their previous schools) were recruited all the time in the past but I've never seen a potential high school senior recruited as a sit out. Even if he did break his commitment after a prep school season, as USAF noted, he didn't fill a position of short-term need anyway.

To me, this move says only one thing: desperation. Two years in a row, Johnson quit recruiting from the portal prematurely. Last year he failed to obtain enough frontline players for insurance on that part of the roster. This season he failed to do the same with guards. This move just looks like a cockamamie excuse to justify that failure. I guess it's not the worst excuse in the world because some people around here seem to have bought it.

I have no objection to Ramburg getting a scholarship if one was open. It's about the overall handling of the scholarships and the portal as you say.

 

[stocker08]

What? Betts was going to prep school. He wasn't coming here otherwise this year. We were going to sit on 2 scholarships if he went to prep school. And if you think he would've decommitted then it means CBJ wasn't doing good job.

No he wouldn't have been a walk on. He would have stayed in high school. He is supposed to be a HS Senior, but apparently had enough credits to graduate early. He would have enrolled next fall with Evans and Christie.

So he presumably would have been free to commit elsewhere during that extra year of high school. Reports were that he was rising on recruiting boards. Some considered to be a top 100 player in the 2023 class.

Considering that Johnson had accepted Samuels tells me that the transfer portal wasn't all that deep. You goons would have preferred another Samuels level player for a lost season over a potentially top 100 HS player? Basically fits with the ongoing trend of GH posters having irrational takes.

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

Henley is going to be a very good player. Watch and see. He's much better than a month ago and a real PG along side of him will do wonders. He is going to be a defensive beast.

My confidence for the long term grew a little on Sunday. Ola Joseph is a tweener but he is going to be a good player. Payne has the raw materials and he will learn to stretch his game. I just haven't seen enough on Carrington to figure him out yet. They could have a nice team next year with a couple of more guards to set things up and defend.

The young guys are all a little raw but they are getting chances to play right now that they wouldn't be getting on other Big Ten teams with where their games are at. I think they are going to stick with Ben and grow. We'll know on all 4 of them by 10 games in next year whether they have done the work to really get better.

The best part of that game is that Henley started and Samuels barely played. We can be 1-11 either way. Henley needs to play from here on out. He has potential and needs to work through it. We will lose either way. At this point, developing the young guys is the only thing left that matters this year.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

No he wouldn't have been a walk on. He would have stayed in high school. He is supposed to be a HS Senior, but apparently had enough credits to graduate early. He would have enrolled next fall with Evans and Christie.

I'm sure his family would've loved to pay $$ to attend the university early...versus wait a year and go for free...

 

[bga1]

The best part of that game is that Henley started and Samuels barely played. We can be 1-11 either way. Henley needs to play from here on out. He has potential and needs to work through it. We will lose either way. At this point, developing the young guys is the only thing left that matters this year.

100% right WAG! I was excited when I saw Henley prepping for the lineup announcement. Right now, I am attending the games to see the 4 kids (I hope Carrington is back soon) develop their games. I liked what I saw in this last game from them. Baby steps.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

I'd gladly trade 4 years of Betts future for a god damned guard today anyway. We have wings coming out our ears.

And this comment got a lot of 'likes'.

You guys seriously need to quit watching the games. You can't handle it. Follow our ground-up rebuild effort through the box scores instead.

Squeezing out a few more wins this year is totally pointless.

 

[golfing18now]

So he presumably would have been free to commit elsewhere during that extra year of high school. Reports were that he was rising on recruiting boards. Some considered to be a top 100 player in the 2023 class.

Considering that Johnson had accepted Samuels tells me that the transfer portal wasn't all that deep. You goons would have preferred another Samuels level player for a lost season over a potentially top 100 HS player? Basically fits with the ongoing trend of GH posters having irrational takes.

Truthfully, if a team is relying on anything significant from their 13th scholarship player in a given year, then the plan has already gone well off the rails. I'd rather that be utilized on a young player like Betts to get him in the weight room, practice facility, etc. We have seen enough low ceiling 5th year players in this program already. Those 13th scholarship minutes should have been utilized by Fox/Ihnen/Carrington/Garcia. Not that any of those guys are by themselves program changers but injuries haven't helped this season's trajectory.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

100% right WAG! I was excited when I saw Henley prepping for the lineup announcement. Right now, I am attending the games to see the 4 kids (I hope Carrington is back soon) develop their games. I liked what I saw in this last game from them. Baby steps.

 

[golfing18now]

And this comment got a lot of 'likes'.

You guys seriously need to quit watching the games. You can't handle it. Follow our ground-up rebuild effort through the box scores instead.

Squeezing out a few more wins this year is totally pointless.

This part isn't entirely true. They were never a tournament team this year. But it's hard to stop the snowball once it gets rolling downhill. "Developing" and "building" aren't necessarily the same thing as "historically bad". The last two years are closer to the last description than the first.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Curious, what would him putting his ass in front of a camera prove? Why are you longing to see him on TV? What would that accomplish, particularly if you don't really care what he says anyway?

Here is the situation as I see it.

The Gopher men's basketball program is having one of its worst seasons ever. attendance is down. people are either ignoring the program or mocking it. the local radio stations are treating the program like a joke.

right now, Ben Johnson is taking the brunt of the reaction.

So what would a statement by Coyle accomplish?

1. It would demonstrate that Coyle understands the current situation.
2. it would let the public and the media know what Coyle thinks about the situation. Coyle could clarify his expectations for the program and the coach.
3. assuming Coyle gives Johnson his support, that means Johnson is not being left to twist in the wind.
4. Coyle could use the occasion to reach out to boosters and advertisers to try and maintain some support for the program - maybe even announce some ticket incentives.

or - Coyle can continue to say and do nothing. his choice.

 

[howeda7]

So he presumably would have been free to commit elsewhere during that extra year of high school. Reports were that he was rising on recruiting boards. Some considered to be a top 100 player in the 2023 class.

Considering that Johnson had accepted Samuels tells me that the transfer portal wasn't all that deep. You goons would have preferred another Samuels level player for a lost season over a potentially top 100 HS player? Basically fits with the ongoing trend of GH posters having irrational takes.

He would be no more likely to commit elsewhere than Christie or Evans. Presumably he would have signed in November just like they did. There was nothing different about Betts than the other two. They're the same age. In the same class. The only difference is Betts had enough credits to graduate early and the Gophers had an open scholarship going to waste. I don't know why you're insisting it's more complicated than that.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

I don't like Henley but I guess at least if we are going to be the worst team I'm school history and my options are to play samuels and TT or Henley and Betts I'd choose the later.

You have to remember that Henley is a freshman. 10 points 5 rebounds 3 assists vs Iowa is good at this stage. If he has any more games like that this year...it translates to him being a good player as a junior...when our rebuild should show results.

As for being the worst team in history...it makes no difference during a ground-up rebuild. Clem lost 17 straight when his first recruits were freshmen & sophomores.

 

[golfing18now]

He would be no more likely to commit elsewhere than Christie or Evans. Presumably he would have signed in November just like they did.

He had originally committed (not signed) as a 2023-2024 freshman, yes? It was only later that he re-classified. So I agree he wouldn't have been any higher of a flight risk than the other two. However, I haven't followed him as closely. Is that how his recruitment transpired?

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Here is the situation as I see it.

The Gopher men's basketball program is having one of its worst seasons ever. attendance is down. people are either ignoring the program or mocking it. the local radio stations are treating the program like a joke.

right now, Ben Johnson is taking the brunt of the reaction.

So what would a statement by Coyle accomplish?

1. It would demonstrate that Coyle understands the current situation.
2. it would let the public and the media know what Coyle thinks about the situation. Coyle could clarify his expectations for the program and the coach.
3. assuming Coyle gives Johnson his support, that means Johnson is not being left to twist in the wind.
4. Coyle could use the occasion to reach out to boosters and advertisers to try and maintain some support for the program - maybe even announce some ticket incentives.

or - Coyle can continue to say and do nothing. his choice.

The always uninspiring vote of confidence, which seemingly always predates a firing.

This only provides additional fodder for talk radio et al during the season - afterwards yes, as it puts them on notice ( including Whalen), now it serves no constructive purpose, as the guys are still playing hard, prior to the two 30+ point blowouts, they had lost 4 of the previous 6 by less than 10 points.

You let the season play out and sit done and talk to both coaches before holding pressers on back to back days to address the media/fans.

Is Tracy Claey’s your cousin?

 

[howeda7]

And this comment got a lot of 'likes'.

You guys seriously need to quit watching the games. You can't handle it. Follow our ground-up rebuild effort through the box scores instead.

Squeezing out a few more wins this year is totally pointless.

Don't attend the games. Don't watch the games. Root for injuries so players feel compelled to come back next year. That's the correct way to support the program.

You should padlock The Barn doors and cut the cables for the TV broadcast. I wonder how long it would take for anyone to notice?

 

[bga1]

You have to remember that Henley is a freshman. 10 points 5 rebounds 3 assists vs Iowa is good at this stage. If he has any more games like that this year...it translates to him being a good player as a junior...when our rebuild should show results.

As for being the worst team in history...it makes no difference during a ground-up rebuild. Clem lost 17 straight when his first recruits were freshmen & sophomores.

So you are kind of saying that we will be a steaming pile again next year. If we can't expect much until they are juniors- 7 of our key contributors next year will be frosh or sophs. What are you expecting out of Christie and Evans next year?

 

[GopherBlood777]

So he presumably would have been free to commit elsewhere during that extra year of high school. Reports were that he was rising on recruiting boards. Some considered to be a top 100 player in the 2023 class.

Considering that Johnson had accepted Samuels tells me that the transfer portal wasn't all that deep. You goons would have preferred another Samuels level player for a lost season over a potentially top 100 HS player? Basically fits with the ongoing trend of GH posters having irrational takes.

You're right, every verbal commit that hasn't officially signed has the possibility of decommitting. If he would have witnessed this season before signing on the dotted line, he probably would have left. 4D chess by Ben on that one.

 

[GopherBlood777]

So you are kind of saying that we will be a steaming pile again next year. If we can't expect much until they are juniors- 7 of our key contributors next year will be frosh or sophs. What are you expecting out of Christie and Evans next year?

He legit has no expectations for next year either. The Junior year of Ben's "first" class is the key to our championship destiny. If you are upset with another failed season next year, then turn in your fan card because you obviously don't belong in Gopher Nation.

 

[stocker08]

Truthfully, if a team is relying on anything significant from their 13th scholarship player in a given year, then the plan has already gone well off the rails. I'd rather that be utilized on a young player like Betts to get him in the weight room, practice facility, etc. We have seen enough low ceiling 5th year players in this program already. Those 13th scholarship minutes should have been utilized by Fox/Ihnen/Carrington/Garcia. Not that any of those guys are by themselves program changers but injuries haven't helped this season's trajectory.

Right. Lots of posters already hate on the transfer players. While I get that Samuels wouldn't be playing on a halfway decent Big Ten team....some even dog on Cooper. Yet these same posters think we should have been spurning talented HS players to take MORE (and presumably worse) transfers?

He would be no more likely to commit elsewhere than Christie or Evans. Presumably he would have signed in November just like they did. There was nothing different about Betts than the other two. They're the same age. In the same class. The only difference is Betts had enough credits to graduate early and the Gophers had an open scholarship going to waste. I don't know why you're insisting it's more complicated than that.

Mostly because we live in the real world and it IS more complicated than that. If he sticks in HS for another year, it opens the door for other teams to get at him. But you seem to think his scholly would have been better used on another Taurus Samuels? lol....comon.

 

[Formerswish]

You have to remember that Henley is a freshman. 10 points 5 rebounds 3 assists vs Iowa is good at this stage. If he has any more games like that this year...it translates to him being a good player as a junior...when our rebuild should show results.

As for being the worst team in history...it makes no difference during a ground-up rebuild. Clem lost 17 straight when his first recruits were freshmen & sophomores.

Agreed. Right now, Henley is the only guy on this team who can beat people off the dribble and get a good shot. That is unbelievably valuable. He can elevate and he can finish strong at the rim, and he handles and passes it very well for a 6'7 kid. We all saw that it didn't start that way at the beginning of the season--he's still raw. And he has the kind of length and quickness to be a very good defender. With more seasoning and strength he's going to be a solid piece for this team.

 

[howeda7]

Mostly because we live in the real world and it IS more complicated than that. If he sticks in HS for another year, it opens the door for other teams to get at him.

Opens what door? What basis do you have to say he wouldn't have signed his tender in November after verbally committing in July? Everything you say about him would be true of Evans and Christie who are higher rated.

It is very unusual to re-classify a recruit 4 weeks before school starts. That is the outlier here. You're acting like the opposite is true.

 

[scools12]

He legit has no expectations for next year either. The Junior year of Ben's "first" class is the key to our championship destiny. If you are upset with another failed season next year, then turn in your fan card because you obviously don't belong in Gopher Nation.

TBF, @EasyThere Pilgrim did say follow the program through box scores.

As long as you do that in the required way you can keep your fan card and remain a valued member of Gopher Nation.