***OFFICIAL INDIANA AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

[Bad Gopher]

My thing with JOJ's usage is that Ben pretty much started him for a year and a half, then the way he played suddenly became such a problem he can't even see the floor? Granted he has not been good the last couple of times he has played, but even when he was playing well he seemed to get his minutes limited. He seemed very confused on his role which wouldn't be surprising considering how drastically it changed in the last few weeks. Also, everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year, I hope you have learned from this. Ramberg deserved 5 minutes. We needed someone to spell the guards and it is literally his last game in Williams. C'mon man.

STUBBORNLY started him, even when there were obviously more well rounded options, and now STUBBORNLY benching him. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ben's lineups and rotations are mysterious and often nonsensical.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Did you notice Payne not playing? His back seems to really be bothering him.

JOJ? Let's go back to that analysis of "WTF was he?".

 

[GopherBlood777]

I liked your post until you said this: "Also, everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year, I hope you have learned from this."

The reality is that there were few, if any, posters who said this. What I remember people saying is that he might be suitable for some spot minutes here and there in certain situations but he would be mostly a practice player that could give Payne a sizeable opponent. I don't know why people feel a need to embellish (or even outright lie) to mock other posters.

I agree that Wilson was a recruiting mistake because we didn't have enough depth ahead of him to afford taking a player for those limited purposes.

Do we really need to revisit the Jack Wilson thread? There were MANY who defended that signing wholeheartedly. Making an argument that "he will be good in practice" is part of the problem. We need guys who can PLAY ON THE COURT. We had no answer for Ware last night especially with Payne having back issues and Garcia dealing with whatever he had going on. Would have been a great night for a backup center to shine. Too bad the one we signed is literally unplayable.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Holy shit. I just realized that you are sincerely asking this question.

Yes. Because this is club ball coaching, not P5 College Men's BB coaching. Live or die if the right players are hot and not adjust to the situation. Every time the outside game wilts, we don't even try to go inside. Pathetic.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Do we really need to revisit the Jack Wilson thread?

Yes, let's do that. I want to see exactly where people said the following line and how many said it:

"everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year"

If you can't do that, then you're conceding that you're just a bullshitter.

 

[skiumah1]

Do we really need to revisit the Jack Wilson thread? There were MANY who defended that signing wholeheartedly. Making an argument that "he will be good in practice" is part of the problem. We need guys who can PLAY ON THE COURT. We had no answer for Ware last night especially with Payne having back issues and Garcia dealing with whatever he had going on. Would have been a great night for a backup center to shine. Too bad the one we signed is literally unplayable.

Not doubling Ware is a huge mistake.

Ben's philosophy is to not double the post I believe. And the times we have tried to double the post this year, it's been some of the most half-assed attempts at double teams that I've seen.

 

[stocker08]

So much this. At this level, results matter. The age of extended patience is gone.

Last night, I lost faith in Hawkins. I've had enough of continuously taking 3-point shots when they aren't falling for him. Why doesn't CBJ do something about it? He seems afraid to put him on the bench.

Our inside the paint game has to get more opportunities.

 

[billytwoshoes]

I think we need to relax a bit in saying Ben cant recruit. He has a nice Sophomore class, a stud in Christie, a high recruit in Dennis Evans (before he took a half million to decommit and go to Louisville) and now a top 10 pg in Asuma. Yes he's had misses (like any coach) - but I think we need to be realistic that in this day and age, money trumps all in College Sports. Go read Nick Saban's interview from yesterday. Bottom line is we dont have much money. Maybe one of the worst NILs in the Big Ten. We cant pay freshman big money, and expecting Johnson to pull a Musselman in the portal is bonkers. Everyone points to Arkansas as how to win with the portal, but they leave out the fact they have some of the most money in the sport for NIL. I will join in on the complaints on the coaching at times, but lets acknowledge the realities of our position here. My thoughts are we need to get creative and stop trying to over-talent teams. Full court press, quick subs, zone defense, something to provide a spark.

 

[GopherBlood777]

Not doubling Ware is a huge mistake.

Ben's philosophy is to not double the post I believe. And the times we have tried to double the post this year, it's been some of the most half-assed attempts at double teams that I've seen.

They usually switch a lot on defense anyway, so I feel like they haven't been terrible when running doubles to the post this year. As you said though, they don't really try this often even when we're getting torched. I guess that is one philosophy, but if you are giving room in the paint, you have to be lock down on the perimeter.

 

[topos]

STUBBORNLY started him, even when there were obviously more well rounded options, and now STUBBORNLY benching him. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ben's lineups and rotations are mysterious and often nonsensical.

There has to be more to the story. JOJ has been shaky lately; there's no denying that. But it's not like anyone looked good last night (besides our sixth man).

In a game where size was bothering us, and we couldn't get a three-pointer to drop, it seems like JOJ would have been the perfect player to insert into the game for defensive length and his ability to get to the hoop on offense.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

There has to be more to the story. JOJ has been shaky lately; there's no denying that. But it's not like anyone looked good last night (besides our sixth man).

In a game where size was bothering us, and we couldn't get a three-pointer to drop, it seems like JOJ would have been the perfect player to insert into the game for defensive length and his ability to get to the hoop on offense.

I could be wrong and I'm not one to defend all of CBJ's decisions but I don't mind the tough love route with JOJ. He could have put JOJ out there out of position at the 3, and JOJ could have gotten minutes and continued being an underwhelming Big 10 player.

JOJ's future depends upon him flipping whatever switch is needed to make him a high energy player. I don't know if that flip gets switched without tough love - it almost reminds me of Rashede Hageman or Michael Carter.

He could be a very good player for us if he changes how he plays and I'm not sure he ever makes that change if we feed him minutes. I'm guessing he isn't showing it at practice either.

But I do get the arguments for playing him last night.

 

[SHGopher]

I think we need to relax a bit in saying Ben cant recruit. He has a nice Sophomore class, a stud in Christie, a high recruit in Dennis Evans (before he took a half million to decommit and go to Louisville) and

now a top 10 pg in Asuma.

Yes he's had misses (like any coach)..

This is a significant comment.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I think we need to relax a bit in saying Ben cant recruit.

I would never say that he can't recruit. However, since his teams consistently have worn down over the last three seasons and/or have shown critical deficiencies in that time, I do charge him with failing to recruit enough capable players.

Here's what I would advise him to do in the offseason:

1) Figure out how many capable players he needs on the roster;

2) Add 2 to the total estimated in #1;

3) Subtract the returnees and incoming freshmen from the total of #1 & #2. Then recruit that number of players from the portal and don't stop and until you get them.

4) In recruiting the total of #3, he is forbidden from recruiting anyone who he can't visualize playing at least 10 minutes per game (less than that is for freshmen recruits only!) or engaging in any other dubious devices like accelerating the matriculation of a committed junior in order to fill the roster.

5) Finally, remember the George Allen words: THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!!

 

[GoodasGold]

I think we need to relax a bit in saying Ben cant recruit. He has a nice Sophomore class, a stud in Christie, a high recruit in Dennis Evans (before he took a half million to decommit and go to Louisville) and now a top 10 pg in Asuma. Yes he's had misses (like any coach) - but I think we need to be realistic that in this day and age, money trumps all in College Sports. Go read Nick Saban's interview from yesterday. Bottom line is we dont have much money. Maybe one of the worst NILs in the Big Ten. We cant pay freshman big money, and expecting Johnson to pull a Musselman in the portal is bonkers. Everyone points to Arkansas as how to win with the portal, but they leave out the fact they have some of the most money in the sport for NIL. I will join in on the complaints on the coaching at times, but lets acknowledge the realities of our position here. My thoughts are we need to get creative and stop trying to over-talent teams. Full court press, quick subs, zone defense, something to provide a spark.

I think you’re on to something here billy. And welcome to the fray!

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I think we need to relax a bit in saying Ben cant recruit. He has a nice Sophomore class, a stud in Christie, a high recruit in Dennis Evans (before he took a half million to decommit and go to Louisville) and now a top 10 pg in Asuma. Yes he's had misses (like any coach) - but I think we need to be realistic that in this day and age, money trumps all in College Sports. Go read Nick Saban's interview from yesterday. Bottom line is we dont have much money. Maybe one of the worst NILs in the Big Ten. We cant pay freshman big money, and expecting Johnson to pull a Musselman in the portal is bonkers. Everyone points to Arkansas as how to win with the portal, but they leave out the fact they have some of the most money in the sport for NIL. I will join in on the complaints on the coaching at times, but lets acknowledge the realities of our position here. My thoughts are we need to get creative and stop trying to over-talent teams. Full court press, quick subs, zone defense, something to provide a spark.

Who will even be left of that Sophomore class by the time they graduate? Payne, maybe? People continue to overrate that class significantly. NIL is a just an excuse when there will be many teams from around the country in the NCAA tournament with less NIL than the Gophers. They have comparable NIL to at least half of the other B1G schools. Dennis Evans didn't get 500k either and he's already done playing basketball.

BJ has proved over 3 years that he can't out coach anyone. So if BJ can't out recruit anyone, and can't out coach anyone, then what's left?

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Who will even be left of that Sophomore class by the time they graduate? Payne, maybe? People continue to overrate that class significantly. NIL is a just an excuse when there will be many teams from around the country in the NCAA tournament with less NIL than the Gophers. They have comparable NIL to at least half of the other B1G schools. Dennis Evans didn't get 500k either and he's already done playing basketball.

BJ has proved over 3 years that he can't out coach anyone. So if BJ can't out recruit anyone, and can't out coach anyone, then what's left?

You said they had the worst roster in the B1G coming into the year. How did they win 9 games in the B1G with the worst roster and the worst coaching in the league?

 

[Gopheritnow]

Hawkins wasnt the problem? 4 turnovers and 1-10 shooting. He was definately one of the problems. If we are going to win games we need him to score! He scored 13 against NW, 18 against Penn State, 16 against Rutgers, and 24 against Ohio State. The games we lose he generally doesn't do much. There were plenty of blame to go around, but hawkins was terrible last night and if we are going to win Big Ten games we need him to play well!

I should have been clearer. I was referring g to Hawkins shooting, and missing, more 3’s than normal. What I meant was, someone had to step up and try, and he did. It didn’t go well, but someone had to do it. While the problems were team wide, the primary fault remained in the shooting of our "shooters"! Christie, Mitchell, and Garcia!

 

[Gopheritnow]

Well, at least this solves one of the GH biggest problems. No more worries about other teams poaching our players! Who would want any of these guys as bad as this thread has made them appear. Early in the week we were worried about The NBA, and massive NIL money… lol

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

With the Michigan State win last night and a road game to NW we could be looking at weakling Wednesday and no NIT even despite an improvement in record this year.

Weakling Wednesday not possible because of the following:

1) The worst we can finish is 9-11 in conference.

2) Michigan has clinched last place.

3) The best Maryland can finish is 8-12 in conference.

4) The best Rutgers and Penn State can finish is 9-11 but we own the tiebrakers against both of them.

So, we can't finish lower than 10th place.

Unfortunately, an NIT appearance is in some real danger. As a result of last night's debacle, we dropped 6 places in NET and are now at #82. That's a really big one game drop! That's still reasonably likely to be in the tournament but very near to the edge.

 

[billytwoshoes]

Who will even be left of that Sophomore class by the time they graduate? Payne, maybe? People continue to overrate that class significantly. NIL is a just an excuse when there will be many teams from around the country in the NCAA tournament with less NIL than the Gophers. They have comparable NIL to at least half of the other B1G schools. Dennis Evans didn't get 500k either and he's already done playing basketball.

BJ has proved over 3 years that he can't out coach anyone. So if BJ can't out recruit anyone, and can't out coach anyone, then what's left?

I dont disagree with your points necessarily. I just meant it isnt realistic to expect an elite team every year under the circumstances.
However, while I am positive about the program and like the team a lot - they all seem like good guys - i agree with a previous poster that next year we cant have our bench filled with projects. in year 4 they need Big Ten players to ready to contribute. If Betts, Ihnen, the european kid, etc arent going to contribute we need to get people who can. Scholarships are precious. I dont expect big time transfers but why not fill out the bench with a d2 star (like Fox) instead of a wilson type.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

on the shooting - IMHO teams get their best shots when they have good ball movement and get all the players involved. work the ball around with quick, accurate passes, find the open guy and take a good shot. poor shooting is often the result of poor ball movement - not getting guys the ball in rhythm.

on the roster - in today's world of unlimited player movement, especially for a program like MN that doesn't have lots of NIL, the hardest thing to do is to find good players - people who are capable of playing - and who are willing to accept a bench role, knowing they may only play 10 minutes a game at best. If they're not starting or playing major minutes, a lot of players will just say "screw it" - jump in the portal and try to find a place where they can play more.

now, if you're talking about a top-25 program, then being a bench player may be more attractive. but if a player has any talent, why would they choose to sit on the bench for a program that is not playing for conference titles or even qualifying for the NCAA? that's the issue for programs like MN - if you can't buy players, how do you sell them on being the 8th or 9th player on a team with an NET in the 70's?

 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

Took my son to the game last night......what a debacle. The team (for the second game in a row) came out with ZERO energy and immediately fell behind 8-0 (I believe). CBJ has to take the blame for some of that. He has to make sure the players are ready to play to start the game. Indiana was terrible the 1st half. They were trying to give the game away, but we refused to take advantage.

As for the players? Hawkins was TERRIBLE....worst game of the season. His shots in pregame, at halftime, and during the game were not even close to falling. I didn't see him make a 3 even in warmups or during halftime. Terrible passes, shoddy ball-handling but I will give him credit that at least he seemed to care. Can't say the same for Garcia. Looked uninterested and intimidated by Ware. Maybe chalk both of them up to just a bad game. Hope so.

Fox, as mentioned was the lone bright spot. However, when he's you're go-to for offense, the team is in trouble.

 

[Gophers7633]

Who will even be left of that Sophomore class by the time they graduate? Payne, maybe? People continue to overrate that class significantly. NIL is a just an excuse when there will be many teams from around the country in the NCAA tournament with less NIL than the Gophers. They have comparable NIL to at least half of the other B1G schools. Dennis Evans didn't get 500k either and he's already done playing basketball.

BJ has proved over 3 years that he can't out coach anyone. So if BJ can't out recruit anyone, and can't out coach anyone, then what's left?

Yeah, the 2022 class is basically down to Payne, and like 12 minutes/gm from Carrington when he's healthy.

 

[leib0039]

Yes, let's do that. I want to see exactly where people said the following line and how many said it:

"everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year"

If you can't do that, then you're conceding that you're just a bullshitter.

Wilson can give us 5-10 minutes a night, his job is to play tough D, push opposing center away from hoop, get some rebounds, and hammer anyone coming into his zone. He will have 5 fouls to give, the harder the better.

Sorry don't know how to cross quote but this was in the Wilson commits post.

Certainly not the majority opinion but there were certainly some homers who thought it was a solid signing.

Looming back at that thread I think JOJ/Betts turned out to be our bigger issues. I think most assumed 1 or both would be able to contribute at the 4 or maybe small 5 in a pinch. Instead both are now DNP-CD. Maybe CBJ was hoping that too. So yah kind of chicken v egg scenario. If Betts or joj had been better we likely wouldn't have worried about the jack signing at all, but with seemingly 5 wasted scholarships it now stands out more.

 

[Gophers7633]

Yes, let's do that. I want to see exactly where people said the following line and how many said it:

"everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year"

If you can't do that, then you're conceding that you're just a bullshitter.

You really should check it out:

Jack Wilson commits

gopherhole.com

Just page 1 alone, mentions it like 3 or 4 times.

 

[GopherBlood777]

Wilson can give us 5-10 minutes a night, his job is to play tough D, push opposing center away from hoop, get some rebounds, and hammer anyone coming into his zone. He will have 5 fouls to give, the harder the better.

Sorry don't know how to cross quote but this was in the Wilson commits post.

Certainly not the majority opinion but there were certainly some homers who thought it was a solid signing.

Looming back at that thread I think JOJ/Betts turned out to be our bigger issues. I think most assumed 1 or both would be able to contribute at the 4 or maybe small 5 in a pinch. Instead both are now DNP-CD. Maybe CBJ was hoping that too. So yah kind of chicken v egg scenario. If Betts or joj had been better we likely wouldn't have worried about the jack signing at all, but with seemingly 5 wasted scholarships it now stands out more.

I don't think the performance of either of those 2 are relevant considering neither are a Center. Wilson was our only backup true center, and he wasn't even playable. With Payne's health issues, and Garcia's lack of physicality, a backup center should have been high priority.

 

[BarnBurner]

I don't think the performance of either of those 2 are relevant considering neither are a Center. Wilson was are only backup true center, and he wasn't even playable. With Payne's health issues, and Garcia's lack of physicality, a backup center should have been high priority.

Garcia didnt want any part of the Indiana front line last night. Its like he was allergic to the lane.

 

[SHGopher]

I really enjoyed attending the Rutgers, Ohio State, and Penn State games recently. That was a great entertainment value. Hopefully they figure it out to get back to that.

 

[CentralGopher]

Garcia didnt want any part of the Indiana front line last night. Its like he was allergic to the lane.

Had his man pinned on the baseline more than once and inexplicably gave him an opening to the lane.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I liked your post until you said this: "Also, everyone who made a sincere argument we would get 5-10 productive minutes per game from Jack Wilson this year, I hope you have learned from this."

The reality is that there were few, if any, posters who said this. What I remember people saying is that he might be suitable for some spot minutes here and there in certain situations but he would be mostly a practice player that could give Payne a sizeable opponent. I don't know why people feel a need to embellish (or even outright lie) to mock other posters.

I agree that Wilson was a recruiting mistake because we didn't have enough depth ahead of him to afford taking a player for those limited purposes.

Yeah, the 2022 class is basically down to Payne, and like 12 minutes/gm from Carrington when he's healthy.

Well, when you put it that way.