Offensive Line - How do they fix it?

minibeaver

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So Coach came out and said this is the area that is hurting us the most, and they need to figure something out.

I'm not an X and O's guy, so I thought maybe someone with more knowledge could give us some insight into how the Coaches might go about figuring it out.

Subtle scheme change?

More run plays that spread out the D, allowing the middle to open up?

Different blocking scheme?

Different players?

Not starting a pi$$ing match about players, or this guy or that guy sucks.
Just looking for some insight as to what the Coaches might be doing with the O Line this week.

Thoughts?
 

I'm no expert but I'd like to see them give this lineup a shot: Pirsig - Campion - Bobek - Mayes - Bush

This would allow Lauer and Bjorklund (to some extent) to heal up. Campion is better suited inside IMO, especially right now as he's banged up. He struggled on Saturday outside. Fall camp reports suggest Bush struggled at LT in but was better at RT, and I thought he held up ok against TCU.

As far as scheme, with so many of our TE's hurt I'd like to see us play more 3 or 4 WR sets to spread things out a little and run more read option and mix in some hurry up. I realize the risk of Leidner getting injured is there, but we need a boost on offense and it gives us another option to move the ball that has worked in the past. It should make things a little easier on the O-Line as well.
 

I don't think there is a magic solution for our problems unfortunately. What we need is to stay healthy and to build some continuity.
 

Seems like our issues are mainly on mobility and recognition. I haven't seen our O-line getting blown up (like Richardson has been tossing guys around on the other teams) most of the misses are not moving fast enough and/or not recognizing responsibility. The speed issue has to do somewhat with guys playing hurt which can be fixed by replacing with other guys, the not recognizing can be worked out in practice either by the guys missing assignments or their replacement. We can afford to take a less experienced, faster, smaller guy if he can learn assignments fast enough.
 

I think it's got to be a combination of fresh bodies, moving guys on the line, and scheming for a few games in a way that doesn't lean on the Oline as a strength.
Unfortunately that means Leidner and our WR core are going to have to do more than they normally have to.
Quick throws, less running up the middle, more running the QB, etc.

I'm all for resting whoever is hurt right now, that could be almost every starter. I guess Bobek hasn't been mentioned as dinged. I think even Campion is hurting just by how he's moving.
I'd go Campion-Moore-Bobek-Mayes-Bush and maybe see if one of the veteran backup guys can help rotate in like Hayes.
It sounds like they tried guys at different positions on Sunday, that could be good or bad.
I'd like to see Lauer completely heal up before coming back, maybe Pirsig too.
 


Injuries on the line are killer, but losing Plesk hurts just as much. I think he was really important to what they want to do.
 

Don't be hurt .... :(

Honestly there's not a lot they can do, maybe bust some redshirts for a weeeee bit of improvement / warm bodies but you never know about that.
 

My opinion is you do the opposite of what we did against Kent St. With so many injuries, we're just not in a position where we can just run over anyone. Run some read option, reverses, jet sweeps, WR screens, etc. As others have said, spread it out a little more. Less two and three TE sets. Maybe put Smith and Williams in at the same time for a few plays. Line them up on each side of Leidner in the shot gun.

You don't have to go too crazy but just changing it up from time to time can make it a little easier in my opinion.
 

As far as scheme, with so many of our TE's hurt I'd like to see us play more 3 or 4 WR sets to spread things out a little and run more read option and mix in some hurry up. I realize the risk of Leidner getting injured is there, but we need a boost on offense and it gives us another option to move the ball that has worked in the past. It should make things a little easier on the O-Line as well.

I also wonder if they could work a jumbo package into their personnel packages. Since they have so many TEs struggling to run block, and the offense really wants to run the ball--seems like it could be an option. Might allow them to get Hayes, Moore, Bush, Mayes involved in game situations.

I'd like to see them spread it out to help everyone up front get some defined looks, this coaching staff seems to want tighter splits and pack everything in when the going gets tough. Running some spread power plays with the HB leading the QB through the hole would be a good look for this group, or maybe some speed option to the boundary.
 




Great responses ya'll thanks.

So I saw someone mention on twitter our tight O Line splits and how Coach gradually went that direction his first few years here because he saw us having trouble when our Line was more spread apart. I do remember hearing (more recently, like last year) how we have had success running the ball when we are in spread formations, having wider splits. For the football minds out there, have we done this much this year? If not, why and would doing that help out the O Line at all?
 

I am no offensive mind but my strength is on the line

as a whole i believe you need to take pressure off the OL by running quick hitters slants or bubbles but the key is to try to keep the defense off balance a little. we could run better if you mixed up the plays better

that sound too simplistic but i really feel it is that simple

it helps to execute the plays called to get a rhythm. run the middle routes but dont always look for them as it will take too much time to protect. if you can mix it up a bit and catch them off guard then you can throw a couple mid-depth routes into the mix.

the deep throws last week would have been the furthest from my thoughts with a banged up OL
 

How about some misdirection? This is where I do think they're waiting for the BIG to show a different play selection. Saturday I saw no traps, pulling guards, etc?
 



No there has not been a lot of spread sets.

Great responses ya'll thanks.

So I saw someone mention on twitter our tight O Line splits and how Coach gradually went that direction his first few years here because he saw us having trouble when our Line was more spread apart. I do remember hearing (more recently, like last year) how we have had success running the ball when we are in spread formations, having wider splits. For the football minds out there, have we done this much this year? If not, why and would doing that help out the O Line at all?

At least not ones that take advantage of the read option or outside zone plays.
Takes quickness and a little more foot speed to have wider splits at the tackle spot, pulling guards for traps or two back sets out of shot gun or four wide. Also takes tight ends and fullbacks that can seal and you know block the right people.
We have had a lot of rotation in the line due to injury and the tight end spots. A lot of inexperience at tight end and H back, something this offense is not used to. Would be nice to get the same five that started the game to be able to play most of it, that would change a lot of things as then when there is mistakes at least they start to get a feel for taking on only there assignments and not trying to block down or do someone else's assignment. Mitch could help a little here by audible or changing out of plays that look like they will not work due to what the defense is showing at the line. I don't know why they don't expect Mitch to do more of this, change the plays, I trust him, he has seen enough football, can throw enough, that he can read what the defense is doing at the line out of shot gun, a few more audibles would be nice. Like I said Mitch can do more. IF anything they should be putting more responsibility on him not less. He can handle it he just needs to tune everything else out and just play football. Kid is not a tight end he is a quarterback and all of these he is not a D1 quarterback threads are ridiculous. To the naysayers, forget about it, you have already formed your opinions.

The running backs could do a better job of staying patient and letting the holes develop, everyone is antsy and jumping the gun because of struggles, those guys let the game come to them and pick there spots with a little more patience and they will hit more on their cutbacks and creases they are getting. These guys need to relax a little bit, to much pent up anxiety and overkill on wanting to do more and everyone's minds racing a little bit. The biggest thing the guys need to do is focus on what they are supposed to be doing assignment wise and worry less about what other guys are doing. Do what you can control and be where you are supposed to be. If you make a mistake especially the QB you need to flush it and move on quickly and not dwell on it. Nugget needs to get in there and run over a few linebackers, and show them what is up, because that kid has always had talent, he just needs to play the game as hard as he always does and stay with it. Nugget Williams is still going to make some special plays for this Gophers team.

With the size of some of our receivers and some speed in the smaller guy's the only thing I have not seen that I have been hoping to see is some more missle screens and quick dig routes to the inside zone. Takes time for those plays to work something we have been short on.
One thing they have done in the past that has totally caught people off guard are the wheel routes or backside screens to the fullback or tight ends off counter action and play action, think we can get some of that on Saturday if the right guys are in place to run it. Some of the things they did with Williams out of those Maryland I and triple back sets, they might be able to do with some other guys like Gibson at least if they try it in practice. Have to find a way to get Strevlars speed on the field, he may fit in some of those Max Williams types of roles too.
The biggest thing is getting five guys that can stay on the field together and get a feel for how each other is playing style wise and then getting some consistency. Having a lot of rotation in the O-line is not ideal because those guys have a lot of responsibility in working together that other units do not have, almost like reading each others minds, and speaking another language.
 

At least not ones that take advantage of the read option or outside zone plays.
Takes quickness and a little more foot speed to have wider splits at the tackle spot, pulling guards for traps or two back sets out of shot gun or four wide. Also takes tight ends and fullbacks that can seal and you know block the right people.
We have had a lot of rotation in the line due to injury and the tight end spots. A lot of inexperience at tight end and H back, something this offense is not used to. Would be nice to get the same five that started the game to be able to play most of it, that would change a lot of things as then when there is mistakes at least they start to get a feel for taking on only there assignments and not trying to block down or do someone else's assignment. Mitch could help a little here by audible or changing out of plays that look like they will not work due to what the defense is showing at the line. I don't know why they don't expect Mitch to do more of this, change the plays, I trust him, he has seen enough football, can throw enough, that he can read what the defense is doing at the line out of shot gun, a few more audibles would be nice. Like I said Mitch can do more. IF anything they should be putting more responsibility on him not less. He can handle it he just needs to tune everything else out and just play football. Kid is not a tight end he is a quarterback and all of these he is not a D1 quarterback threads are ridiculous. To the naysayers, forget about it, you have already formed your opinions.

Great ideas gopherdude, I haven't thought much about Mitch calling audibles, but I think that's a good idea.

As far as running backs hitting holes too early, I agree. In addition to the reasons you mentioned, could it also be the fact they are getting hit behind the line often on other plays so there in a rush? Either way I noticed it last game where it seemed like there was a nice hole opening up but our RB (Smith both times I think?) got their a bit too early.
 

Does anyone have the 3-deeps for O-Line. It seems like they do a lot of shuffling from one spot to another when someone goes down as opposed to leaving someone at their natural (or best position), We have 20 O-line men and all I ever hear about is 8 names. If Moore is ready to play let him. If he is better than 5-8 guys older than him then we have more issues with recruiting or coaching at that position,
 

I think a zone blocking scheme might be of assistance. I think it gives some better cutting lanes. I also do see a lot of firing out. Our linemen seem to be catching the defense rather than attacking.


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I think a zone blocking scheme might be of assistance. I think it gives some better cutting lanes. I also do see a lot of firing out. Our linemen seem to be catching the defense rather than attacking.
This isn't fricking HS football Maxy. No offense, but it's a little more complicated than that when 6 defenders line up on the defensive line of scrimmage and are blitzing off the edges and stunting D linemen. An O lineman steps with a good base and has to react to movement. This isn't as simple as the lineman board drill and mauling your opponent. Sometimes the O lineman is just attempting to leverage a DL out of the play as called for by the play called.
 

This isn't fricking HS football Maxy. No offense, but it's a little more complicated than that when 6 defenders line up on the defensive line of scrimmage and are blitzing off the edges and stunting D linemen. An O lineman steps with a good base and has to react to movement. This isn't as simple as the lineman board drill and mauling your opponent. Sometimes the O lineman is just attempting to leverage a DL out of the play as called for by the play called.

I agree it's not easy. Kill said he's been disappointed with the aggression. I've said in other threads, they look sloppy and slow.


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I agree it's not easy. Kill said he's been disappointed with the aggression. I've said in other threads, they look sloppy and slow.
I have to disagree with "sloppy and slow". Poor execution, yes. But that involves lots of technical aspects, more than physicality.
For example, if you see an offensive lineman appear to be "catching", I would expect it's more likely that there was a failure of technique rather than a failure of aggressiveness. Maybe the OL isn't getting his hands inside and exposes his chest to the DL. Maybe the OL's pad level is too high and allows a DL to gain leverage. Good technique makes a lineman look physically superior.
 

In addition to what others have mentioned, ie going to a more spread attack, allowing Mitch to audible, etc we are losing first down. We are getting slaughtered on first down. As Derek Burns, former lineman pointed out running into stacked boxes is an uphill battle for any RB. Running 80% of the time (historically) on first down is a little crazy and almost absurdly predictable with this OC. It is just not working this season. Look at the first down S&P+.

Offense Defense
Avg. Rk Avg. Rk
Q1 S&P+ 90.3 108 151.5 14
Q2 S&P+ 108.7 65 164.8 8
Q3 S&P+ 108.2 66 116.3 41
Q4 S&P+ 103.0 78 137.0 17
1st Down S&P+ 93.0 104 135.0 16
2nd Down S&P+ 151.0 5 136.1 12
3rd Down S&P+ 128.4 35 138.5 30

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2015-minnesota-advanced-statistical-profile





.
 

I have to disagree with "sloppy and slow". Poor execution, yes. But that involves lots of technical aspects, more than physicality.
For example, if you see an offensive lineman appear to be "catching", I would expect it's more likely that there was a failure of technique rather than a failure of aggressiveness. Maybe the OL isn't getting his hands inside and exposes his chest to the DL. Maybe the OL's pad level is too high and allows a DL to gain leverage. Good technique makes a lineman look physically superior.

You and Maxy could both be right here, it could be both aggressiveness and technique. It could also be that our guys our not healthy, and that's hurting their technique, or they aren't playing as fast/aggressive as they normally would be.

In Maxy's defense, Coach brought up the aggressiveness.
 

Does anyone know what the deal with Foster Bush is?

This coaching staff had enough faith in him to start the final four games of 2013 at guard and the first five games of 2014 at guard. He suffered a concussion and has hardly played since.

Now, he's a back up tackle and there's discussion that they could pull a redshirt off of a backup true freshman center to offer assistance to Bjorklund.

Is Bush's injury still lingering? Here's a guy who has started nine games at guard in the last two seasons. There is an apparent need at guard. Why in the world wouldn't they use Bush to rotate with Bjorklund? Did they let this guy start for nine games when he wasn't any good? Seems odd that they'd consider pulling a redshirt off of a backup true freshman center who has never played in a college game when they have a fifth-year senior who's played in 33 games in his career riding the pine.

Any insight?
 

In addition to what others have mentioned, ie going to a more spread attack, allowing Mitch to audible, etc we are losing first down. We are getting slaughtered on first down. As Derek Burns, former lineman pointed out running into stacked boxes is an uphill battle for any RB. Running 80% of the time (historically) on first down is a little crazy and almost absurdly predictable with this OC. It is just not working this season. Look at the first down S&P+.

Offense Defense
Avg. Rk Avg. Rk
Q1 S&P+ 90.3 108 151.5 14
Q2 S&P+ 108.7 65 164.8 8
Q3 S&P+ 108.2 66 116.3 41
Q4 S&P+ 103.0 78 137.0 17
1st Down S&P+ 93.0 104 135.0 16
2nd Down S&P+ 151.0 5 136.1 12
3rd Down S&P+ 128.4 35 138.5 30

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2015-minnesota-advanced-statistical-profile





.

I have a deer in the headlights look going on after reading this. I think you are saying that things aren't going too well offensively in the first quarter and on first downs.
 

Does anyone know what the deal with Foster Bush is?

This coaching staff had enough faith in him to start the final four games of 2013 at guard and the first five games of 2014 at guard. He suffered a concussion and has hardly played since.

Now, he's a back up tackle and there's discussion that they could pull a redshirt off of a backup true freshman center to offer assistance to Bjorklund.

Is Bush's injury still lingering? Here's a guy who has started nine games at guard in the last two seasons. There is an apparent need at guard. Why in the world wouldn't they use Bush to rotate with Bjorklund? Did they let this guy start for nine games when he wasn't any good? Seems odd that they'd consider pulling a redshirt off of a backup true freshman center who has never played in a college game when they have a fifth-year senior who's played in 33 games in his career riding the pine.

Any insight?

Tyler Moore is that good. He was in for spring practice and has the Epping attitude with more potential (by a lot). I look forward to his play freshman mistakes and all.
 

Great to hear that Moore is that good.

With last year's OL (which performed better), Bush and Hayes were able to get significant playing time. I'm also curious about them not playing this year with a struggling offensive line.
 

These offensive linemen can play better. Go to the basics and do NOT panic. Simplify what needs to be simplified. Put players in a position to succeed at what they have been struggling with by changing a few calls and then it is just a matter of executing, correcting the very correctable things. If the offensive line can start performing 10% better, the results will be very evident. It is NOT a matter of going back to square one. A little success will breed success. Part of the "push" needs to include more impact from the tight ends...AND...the wide receivers. A 10% improvement will yield noticeable positive results in the total effectiveness of the offense AND the team.
 

Could this just be what was decided by Kill last week as to the offense line.

Win the game and give them as much experience as possible.

They both happened
 

I am disappointed that people don't seem to realize that the number one solution is to get healthy!:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

I am disappointed that people don't seem to realize that the number one solution is to get healthy!:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I think everyone realizes that. This is more of a discussion of what to do in the mean time. Surely our coaches aren't just sitting back with their arms crossed and waiting for people to heal.
 




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