Not Fair To Kids

[91 CLA Grad]

Let's get an O Line that can pass-protect, a D line that can get penetration, a QB with more than 4 games of college experience and a secondary that is not forced to give 8-10 yard cushions to avoid getting beat deep. If we still get beat like this, then we can go after the coaches more.

 

[BradDad]

The excuses thrown around here continue to amaze me......

In my experience, "excuses" are reasons/explanations which the accuser doesn't like.

Taking fundamentals from the practice field to the game isn't as easy as you assume. It takes time and a LOT of repetition to develop new habits. There's always a tendency to fall back into old bad habits when the pressure's on.

Just for "fun," I went back and looked at last year's schedule & results. First four games (in terms of opponents) were fairly similar - USC (last year at home, where we 'should' have had an easier time giving them a game) and three 'lesser' programs.

Last year's team had a senior, experienced QB; this year, 1st time starter who really wasn't training as a QB last year operating in a new offense.

But that's not really the issue from 2010 - last year's team scored enough points to win 5 games (plus or minus) ... the defense was awful.

Through four games, this year's defense has given up fewer points than last year's crew. Record's the same and no one's happy about that. Nor should they be ... just don't see the point of having a hissy fit.

Kill's eventually been successful at every stop thus far - "eventually" being the key. I doubt he's in over his head - it's not that big a jump in sophistication from Northern Illinois to the Big Ten.

It comes down to expectations (unrealistic) .... Anyone who thought upgrading the coaching staff would be enough, all by itself, to make a bad team good is suffering from delusions.

Good coaching makes a team better - - - it can't make a bad team good. At least, not in the course of one spring practice and one fall camp.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

I have to agree with Art on the fact that the adjustments and the preparation are what is most disappointing and so far the coaches get a D-. You can blame just year one and new systems and you can only place blame at the players feet so much, and make excuses. Early losses to bad programs and FCS teams will taint perception.
Face it football players are compensated at the D1 level for a full ride scholarship but they could give two Sh!ts about it. Most are under the delusion they will play in the league and continue to play football for a career because they have been the best in there fish bowl in high school and everyone has kissed there butts and told them they are special there whole lives. College kids especially athletes and football players, care about partying, getting drunk or chasing tale, and and having a good time just like all college kids do, that is what they care about most, it is crude but the truth. We are not all trying to be adults, face it most are hear to play ball, and play football only. This crap about being students is really kind of a charade and just a side note. They are ball players in there minds first, that is all D1 level sports, the few who get there degree and realize professional opportunity is better after football if you have a degree are the exception. It does take time to effect change I realize that but the excitement for these coaches and there talk and media speeches wanes with each bad loss.

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

I think the answer, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. This is, frankly, a lousy program. We won three games last year. To expect Kill to arrive and completely or even significantly remedy this program's ills in this small amount of time is unreasonable. It's going to take time to fix this up, and, given Kill's track record, he might be able to do it.

These aren't excuses for the abysmal performances that have marked the start of the Kill era; they're comments on the big picture, advocating patience in developing results. These first games have been bad, and I've been more than disappointed with the preparation and gameday coaching of Kill and his staff. The expectation of immediate results may be unfair, but the expectation to see noticeable improvements in different areas in which we have struggled (including being out-coached) is fair. We haven't seen any of those improvements, and these losses, for lack of a better term, have felt all too Brewster-ish. And it's certainly fair now for fans to start questioning Kill's role in our disappointing performances. It's just not nearly the time to call for his head or give up on him.

I, for one, don't want to hear any more "Our team is lousy, we have to change the culture, etc." talk from Kill. He said, leading up to this last week, something like the Gophers could learn from NDSU how to play hard every play. Every fan is in agreement with Kill on this. It's great that Kill wants the kids to learn to play harder, but, thus far, I haven't seen any indication that he is actually cultivating this drive in his players. And it's frustrating to hear the fiery press conferences full of vitriol but see the same complacency on the field. It's great to say it's time to change the culture. I want to see it actually start to change now.

I've moved a few rows back on the Kill bandwagon, and, if these types of performances continue into B1G play, I'll keep moving back. But we're only four games in, and we have a full conference slate ahead of us. That will give us a better indication about Kill's ability to compete at this level than this bitterly disappointing start. Patience is better than hasty judgment.

 

[BradDad]

I, for one, don't want to hear any more "Our team is lousy, we have to change the culture, etc." talk from Kill. He said, leading up to this last week, something like the Gophers could learn from NDSU how to play hard every play. Every fan is in agreement with Kill on this. It's great that Kill wants the kids to learn to play harder, but, thus far, I haven't seen any indication that he is actually cultivating this drive in his players. And it's frustrating to hear the fiery press conferences full of vitriol but see the same complacency on the field. It's great to say it's time to change the culture. I want to see it actually start to change now.

Jerry Kill can't make the culture change. He can create a system of incentives and disincentives, but all that can do is change external behavior (to some extent). Changing the culture is about attitude - people buying into the program, people accepting the expectations of the program and making them their own of themselves.

Last "culture change" I saw in a program wasn't accomplished in spring ball or fall camp - it took pretty much the first full season under the new regime (and really didn't start to take off until after the 11th game of the season, on a tarmac after the plane flight home from a bad road loss in a "division deciding" game). That team spent an hour or more on that plane arguing, challenging each other, calling each other out. It was only after that experience on the road that the team began to understand what they thought was "working hard / buying in" wasn't everything they had to give.

There are kids on the Minnesota roster who think they're giving everything they have who are just scratching the surface. They don't know how much they're capable of; right now, I suspect they don't believe pushing themselves beyond their comfort zone is really going to make a difference on the field. That has to change & the kids are the only ones who can do that.

 

[Gopher028]

Instead of blaming talent for these losses you might want to look at the fact that alot of these 3 star kids have played in different systems every single year they have been at MN. The NDSU kids have played in the same system every year and know where to be and can play without thinking and without hesitation. They can play much more aggressively.

For all of the sky is falling, Kill sucks rubes, all I can say is when will you learn that consistency in the program is just as important as talent. Kill has a system that has always worked. It has rarely worked the first season. It won't work this season. Give the man time. I say he should be the coach for the next 10 years and let's start look at ways to help the man, not ways to blame him. It is time to look at MN, not the coaches that come here.

PRESACTLY!!!!

For all the players on this team that were recruited by Brewster who literally had a different coordinator on either side of the ball every season, to even kids like Bennett who were recruited by MASON, these guys have had to learn a football system and scheme ever single year. That takes a lot of resolve. I challenge anyone here to say they've done something similar in life and have succeeded at it. Even people at their work places who have to retrain and readjust to different procedures need time for things to gel, adjust to work smoothly, and often a lot longer than 2-3 years. This is no different, Jerry Kill came in advising this could be rough for year 1, 2, and maybe 3, we all agreed. Now it's time to act accordingly and be patient, stop throwing college kids, who are adjusting to a different offense or defense annually, under the bus. This will get better, that's what Kill does, everywhere, that's why he was hired (no to sales pitch recruit to kids). It will get better. If we go 1-11, 0-8... so be it, next year will improve and too the year after that.

 

[husker70]

We have gone from a scheme based coach, to a fundamentals base. The only thing I would have done differently was select three plays. Inside Zone, Stretch Zone, and Pin and Pull. Run it again, and again, and again in practice. Run them to perfection, or start over. But we have three seniors in the interior of the offensive line, and two underclassmen at the tackles. There is no excuse for Gjere or Olson. Bunders, Orton, and Wynn have been around and heard it before. To have no senior captains, no captain at all speaks volumes. Limegrover has said he pinned his hope on these three and their experience. I think this hope is running a little thin. Whether its Mottla, Olson, or Epping who can follow direction, execute is the questiion. I have felt that Tommy Olson at Center provides leadership and be the baddest player in the center of the action. The biggest thing the OL lacks is foot speed. I have said it is measure in 10 yard times, but more important in the zone scheme to recognize the defense, the gap and player to block, and know how to block the specific player and play. Its harder than you can imagine. If 9 players do each of the above, and the back either splits the seam, or cuts it back you leave a back on a safety and he has beat him to earn his scholarship. He does and you have a TD. We have a back in Bennett who does not have the power to split the seam, and doesn't seem to see the backdoor cut. Kirkwood has the power to blow open th seam. The difference is players like Thomas Hamner, Amir Pinnix, MBIII, and Maroney had the vision and ability to do both.

But this is offense and not the problem.

We cannot stop anyone. We have major problems. We have no force in the middle. No DT who cannot pennetrate, or even hold the point. We have no DE and no coordination. If you are going to Blitz up the middle you need contain from your DE. How many times will we see a QB escape or how many times did we see a QB escape one side, run back to the oppositeside and complete a pass. That cannot happen. And when you need Royston to stop the run, you are covering the tightend with a linebacker, the free safety or he is running free. Where is the strenght of this defense. Gary Tinsely?
The key to the roster is finding the next DT tandum. From there DE, maybe Beal can add a stopper to run defense. The secondary, we do not have a shut down corner. We cannot play bump and run. We have a tough time with leverage and tackling. Back end defense. If they can stop it with 7, we can play two deep.

Defense wins championships, offense sells tickets.

 

[fej]

We have gone from a scheme based coach, to a fundamentals base. The only thing I would have done differently was select three plays. Inside Zone, Stretch Zone, and Pin and Pull. Run it again, and again, and again in practice. Run them to perfection, or start over. But we have three seniors in the interior of the offensive line, and two underclassmen at the tackles. There is no excuse for Gjere or Olson. Bunders, Orton, and Wynn have been around and heard it before. To have no senior captains, no captain at all speaks volumes. Limegrover has said he pinned his hope on these three and their experience. I think this hope is running a little thin. Whether its Mottla, Olson, or Epping who can follow direction, execute is the questiion. I have felt that Tommy Olson at Center provides leadership and be the baddest player in the center of the action. The biggest thing the OL lacks is foot speed. I have said it is measure in 10 yard times, but more important in the zone scheme to recognize the defense, the gap and player to block, and know how to block the specific player and play. Its harder than you can imagine. If 9 players do each of the above, and the back either splits the seam, or cuts it back you leave a back on a safety and he has beat him to earn his scholarship. He does and you have a TD. We have a back in Bennett who does not have the power to split the seam, and doesn't seem to see the backdoor cut. Kirkwood has the power to blow open th seam. The difference is players like Thomas Hamner, Amir Pinnix, MBIII, and Maroney had the vision and ability to do both.

But this is offense and not the problem.

We cannot stop anyone. We have major problems. We have no force in the middle. No DT who cannot pennetrate, or even hold the point. We have no DE and no coordination. If you are going to Blitz up the middle you need contain from your DE. How many times will we see a QB escape or how many times did we see a QB escape one side, run back to the oppositeside and complete a pass. That cannot happen. And when you need Royston to stop the run, you are covering the tightend with a linebacker, the free safety or he is running free. Where is the strenght of this defense. Gary Tinsely?
The key to the roster is finding the next DT tandum. From there DE, maybe Beal can add a stopper to run defense. The secondary, we do not have a shut down corner. We cannot play bump and run. We have a tough time with leverage and tackling. Back end defense. If they can stop it with 7, we can play two deep.

Defense wins championships, offense sells tickets.

I recall a play where I believe it was Garin shot the inside gap on the LT with a TE on the same side and he was the outside contain player. It left the filling safety in a one on three on that side of the field when the run went to that side. I was dumbfounded with the execution, and whatever scheme is in play that has one mistake collapse the entire defense half of the field allowing an easy 10-15 yard run.

 

[SoMpls]

The blame I would give the coaches is for the fact that they're not putting in a system that fits the personnel. They're putting in their system and not really worrying about wins in losses imo. But that's where it ends. Call it bashing be only have a few legit players. If 90% of kids that play are Brewster's players that means 90% of the players have a history of losing, have been poorly coached, lack dicipline, don't work hard, and aren't very smart football players. That doesn't change with the hiring of a new coach. We still have the same players, period. It's over for the seniors. You'll have a few juniors that by in but may still lack in some areas. You won't be able to tell how good or bad Kill is as a coach until his first recruiting class are sophmore and juniors, and remember those juniors and rs-sophmores aren't going to be highly touted recruits. But what I like from Kill is that he's recruiting football players. That was the difference between NDSU and the U. They had football players. We have athletes who play football. Kill seems to not be infatuated with 4 and 5 start recruits but looking for players who know how to block, tackle, cover, have dicipline, work hard, and every other cliche that goes with being a football player. Give Kill a few years, he'll be just fine. Btw- for those who love to throw Alverez comparisons around he did not start off winning with 4 and 5 star recruits. He built his system first and brought in players that fit his sytstem.

 

[disco]

The blame I would give the coaches is for the fact that they're not putting in a system that fits the personnel. They're putting in their system and not really worrying about wins in losses imo.

This says it better than most. I think the point here is to teach the underclassmen the Kill system, and push them to learn it for the coming years, while recruiting players that fit that system going forward. This appears to be what Kill has done in past programs, and it's worked.

Does it suck for the seniors this year? Yeah, it does, but what else are you supposed to do? Continue to try and build a system each year to fit whatever players you have? Brewster did that, and we see what happened.

 

[disco]

I have to agree with Art on the fact that the adjustments and the preparation are what is most disappointing and so far the coaches get a D-. You can blame just year one and new systems and you can only place blame at the players feet so much, and make excuses. Early losses to bad programs and FCS teams will taint perception.
Face it football players are compensated at the D1 level for a full ride scholarship but they could give two Sh!ts about it. Most are under the delusion they will play in the league and continue to play football for a career because they have been the best in there fish bowl in high school and everyone has kissed there butts and told them they are special there whole lives. College kids especially athletes and football players, care about partying, getting drunk or chasing tale, and and having a good time just like all college kids do, that is what they care about most, it is crude but the truth. We are not all trying to be adults, face it most are hear to play ball, and play football only. This crap about being students is really kind of a charade and just a side note. They are ball players in there minds first, that is all D1 level sports, the few who get there degree and realize professional opportunity is better after football if you have a degree are the exception. It does take time to effect change I realize that but the excitement for these coaches and there talk and media speeches wanes with each bad loss.

Also well-stated. I suspect this team is full of a lot more players like Jewhan Edwards than Tim Tebow.