Not Fair To Kids

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minngg

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Instead of blaming talent for these losses you might want to look at the fact that alot of these 3 star kids have played in different systems every single year they have been at MN. The NDSU kids have played in the same system every year and know where to be and can play without thinking and without hesitation. They can play much more aggressively.

For all of the sky is falling, Kill sucks rubes, all I can say is when will you learn that consistency in the program is just as important as talent. Kill has a system that has always worked. It has rarely worked the first season. It won't work this season. Give the man time. I say he should be the coach for the next 10 years and let's start look at ways to help the man, not ways to blame him. It is time to look at MN, not the coaches that come here.
 


Some of the blame on the Men is justified @ 18 your a man. Its Fan frustrations coming out...Kill is a good coach and he should and will get time to prove himself I am sure.
 

Please stop

I'm sooooooo tired of this excuse. Soooooo tired. A coaching staff's "system" has nothing to do with poor fundamentals and effort. Please quit using this "new system" as a crutch. It's a pathetic excuse. This team should've handily beat NMSU and NDSU with my 6 year old nephew as head coach. If Coach Kill was half the coach many of you claim him to be, this team is 3-1 headed to Michigan. Not saying he won't ever win here but he gets an F for his first 4 games.
 

Art Vandelay said:
I'm sooooooo tired of this excuse. Soooooo tired. A coaching staff's "system" has nothing to do with poor fundamentals and effort. Please quit using this "new system" as a crutch. It's a pathetic excuse. This team should've handily beat NMSU and NDSU with my 6 year old nephew as head coach. If Coach Kill was half the coach many of you claim him to be, this team is 3-1 headed to Michigan. Not saying he won't ever win here but he gets an F for his first 4 games.
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I have to agree here. New system or not, there is no excuse to playing 3 levels below teams like NDSU and NMSU. I don't understand where the players "too big for their britches" attitude comes from. They have done nothing to deserve the sense of entitlement and lethargy that some of the players possess.
 


New systems have nothing to do with execution? I quit reading your post after that comment.
 

The different systems excuse is complete BS. Football is not rocket science. If anything learning different systems should make the players smarter. The Gophers are getting outplayed and losing games because of poor play calling and decisions by the coaches, bad penalties, inaccurate passes, dropped footballs, missed tackles, and not getting to and containing the QB.
 

It's pretty obvious no one here's gone out to play golf right after a golf lesson ....

First, "new systems" is a big deal. 11 guys need to know instinctively what they're supposed to do from the moment they break the huddle until the ball is snapped - not as easy as you might think, given their assignments can change based on the defensive front they see or due to an audible. One guy going the wrong way can blow up a play ... having even a split-second of indecision slows you down, makes you tentative ... it can be enough to blow up a play.

These days, both the receivers and QBs have to read coverages, again instinctively, for the same reason - - - read it different & you have balls thrown to where no one is (all to often to guys on the other team).
 

For the selective readers, I did not say the system changes were the only reason. However, to say it isn't a factor in poor execution is just plain ignorant.
 



i don't think there is anyone here who wouldn't sign up for a run like Barry Alvarez's over the next sixteen years.

Here is what it looks like. First season one game worse than predecessor's last season. First three seasons are losing seasons. First win against Iowa is in year 8. Only three wins against Michigan during the whole run. All but four of these seasons are no better than Mason's best team. About a third are no better than Brewster's best team.

Yesterday sucked but it is way too early to jump ship.

Barry Alvarez

1990 1-10, 0-8**
1991 5-6, 2-6**
1992 5-6, 3-5**
1993 10-1-1, 6-1-1 (won Rose Bowl)
1994 7-4-1, 4-3-1*
1995 4-5-2, 3-4-1*
1996 8-5, 4-4*
1997 8-5, 5-3*
1998 11-1, 7-1 (won Rose Bowl)
1999 10-2, 7-1 (won Rose Bowl)
2000 9-4, 4-4*
2001 5-7, 3-5**
2002 8-6, 2-6**
2003 7-6, 4-4*
2004 9-3, 6-2
2005 10-3, 5-3*

* seasons in which their conference record was equal to or worse than Mason's best team
** seasons in which their conference record was equal to or worse than Brewster's best team
 

its also not fair to these kids to read and hear from their head coach who says we wont win because we are slow, we lack quality depth, etc.

i will support kill because i support the U but for him to mentally knock our kids down before the season does not help our cause. As of what I have seen in 4 games i have been very disappointed in play calling and making adjustments too late. Im starting to wonder if the game yesterday broke the gopher football programs back for another 50 yrs? i have never heard so many "hardcore" gopher fans all say the same thing yesterday, "i cant watch this sh*t anymore its going to kill me."
 

The kids have been treated like garbage, especially the upperclassmen.

Nagurski has been a circus.
 

minngg said:
Instead of blaming talent for these losses you might want to look at the fact that alot of these 3 star kids have played in different systems every single year they have been at MN. The NDSU kids have played in the same system every year and know where to be and can play without thinking and without hesitation. They can play much more aggressively.

For all of the sky is falling, Kill sucks rubes, all I can say is when will you learn that consistency in the program is just as important as talent. Kill has a system that has always worked. It has rarely worked the first season. It won't work this season. Give the man time. I say he should be the coach for the next 10 years and let's start look at ways to help the man, not ways to blame him. It is time to look at MN, not the coaches that come here.
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Yes. BUT. There is no excuse to be that bad that players who don't get full ride scholarships are dominating you on both sides of the ball.
 



If systems/continuity were the only component to success, Auburn would have never won the national championship in year two of that regime. The reality is the players - specifically the QB - made the difference. That said, continuity also does matter.

In my mind to be a top level team you either need to get really good players, or get good enough players and get really good at what you do. The Gophers are so far from either of those scenarios I don't even know where to begin.
 

lakesgopher said:
its also not fair to these kids to read and hear from their head coach who says we wont win because we are slow, we lack quality depth, etc.

i will support kill because i support the U but for him to mentally knock our kids down before the season does not help our cause. As of what I have seen in 4 games i have been very disappointed in play calling and making adjustments too late. Im starting to wonder if the game yesterday broke the gopher football programs back for another 50 yrs? i have never heard so many "hardcore" gopher fans all say the same thing yesterday, "i cant watch this sh*t anymore its going to kill me."
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He didn't single out anyone. If anything, those kind of comments should motivate them even more.
 


josh087 said:
If systems/continuity were the only component to success, Auburn would have never won the national championship in year two of that regime. The reality is the players - specifically the QB - made the difference. That said, continuity also does matter.
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Auburn also had a Heisman QB and had to give him six figures worth of improper benefits to get him there. I do NOT want Minnesota to be like Auburn.
 


Cayman said:
Auburn also had a Heisman QB and had to give him six figures worth of improper benefits to get him there. I do NOT want Minnesota to be like Auburn.
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True, but he isn't saying the gophers should be competing for titles, BCS games, heck even a bowl game right now. They should be able to beat a FCS team and a NMST team right now regardless of a scheme change.
 

Art Vandelay said:
I'm sooooooo tired of this excuse. Soooooo tired. A coaching staff's "system" has nothing to do with poor fundamentals and effort. Please quit using this "new system" as a crutch. It's a pathetic excuse. This team should've handily beat NMSU and NDSU with my 6 year old nephew as head coach. If Coach Kill was half the coach many of you claim him to be, this team is 3-1 headed to Michigan. Not saying he won't ever win here but he gets an F for his first 4 games.
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So let me get this straight Kill gets no leniency as he attempts to put in a new system but every Weber backer's number one claim for Weber not reaching his potential is the constant change of offensive coordinator under brewster?

So which is it? Does a change in system affect the players or not?

Do you people remember watching the Brewster era? Do you remember the disorganized manner in which it was run? These kids don't how to lift with a purpose, they don't know how to practice with a purpose and most importantly they have no clue what it takes to win consistently.

Kill isn't just having to teach these kids his playbook. He's teaching them how lift with a purpose, practice with a purpose and as a result how to win. That doesn't happen overnight.
 

Art Vandelay said:
I'm sooooooo tired of this excuse. Soooooo tired. A coaching staff's "system" has nothing to do with poor fundamentals and effort. Please quit using this "new system" as a crutch. It's a pathetic excuse. This team should've handily beat NMSU and NDSU with my 6 year old nephew as head coach. If Coach Kill was half the coach many of you claim him to be, this team is 3-1 headed to Michigan. Not saying he won't ever win here but he gets an F for his first 4 games.
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He and his staff get a D- for the first four games. Having a chance to beat USC at their place (no matter how badly USC played) gets you up from failing. The good news is (an EA NCAA football game reference) is that we're a 1 star program, so we won't be dropping any further.
 

cjcarter8 said:
Kill isn't just having to teach these kids his playbook. He's teaching them how lift with a purpose, practice with a purpose and as a result how to win. That doesn't happen overnight.
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So what you are saying is that we should be seeing improvement as he teaches them the fundementals? I haven't seen any.
 

cjcarter8 said:
So let me get this straight Kill gets no leniency as he attempts to put in a new system but every Weber backer's number one claim for Weber not reaching his potential is the constant change of offensive coordinator under brewster?

Kill isn't just having to teach these kids his playbook. He's teaching them how lift with a purpose, practice with a purpose and as a result how to win. That doesn't happen overnight.
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verucan-insistent-2.png


But I want wins NOW!

Although I've seen the Alvarez example used many times, I do agree with badgergopher that this will take some time. I'll admit that, before the season started, I saw us winning 5 or 6 games. Unfortunately, we've already lost two of the games I thought we would win. I thought we would do better than this this season, and we still could if Kill and the players get it together as the season goes on and stop losing games that they shouldn't simply because they didn't show up, but even if we don't win another game this season, I'll still give coach Kill some time to bring in his own recruiting classes with the kids he wants with the mentality that he likes to see. I was very disappointed after last night's loss, and I hated watching that fluke play at the end of the first half, as well as watching the second pick six of the game when the NDSU player just waltzed on through our offense untouched, reminding me of 2008 against Northwestern, a pick six where we seemingly had a billion chances to make a tackle and just didn't.

I'm getting a little off track though. I agree that we should have beaten New Mexico State and North Dakota State, but these are still about 90% Brewster's players, and I think questioning Kill's coaching ability after just four games is kind of ridiculous, especially given his past record of success at multiple programs.
 

Sparlimb said:
So what you are saying is that we should be seeing improvement as he teaches them the fundementals? I haven't seen any.
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What I'm saying is calling for Kill's head is the dumbest thing I have seen in awhile. He's 4 games into a known rebuilding job. Take a deep breathe and step away from the edge.
 

All spring, summer, and fall should be enough time to learn the playbook well enough to beat these low level teams. The players either aren't very talented or they aren't dedicating themselves to learning the system (or both). The players are compensated well enough that we should expect them to perform and when they don't they deserve the pressure associated with failure. If a full ride to a respected University isn't motivation enough, they are in the wrong place.
 

A lot of this sounds like what we wrote and read here during Brewster's first year. Truth is: so far not so good.
 


cjcarter8 said:
So let me get this straight Kill gets no leniency as he attempts to put in a new system but every Weber backer's number one claim for Weber not reaching his potential is the constant change of offensive coordinator under brewster?

So which is it? Does a change in system affect the players or not?

Do you people remember watching the Brewster era? Do you remember the disorganized manner in which it was run? These kids don't how to lift with a purpose, they don't know how to practice with a purpose and most importantly they have no clue what it takes to win consistently.

Kill isn't just having to teach these kids his playbook. He's teaching them how lift with a purpose, practice with a purpose and as a result how to win. That doesn't happen overnight.
Click to expand...

This is another pathetic excuse. We're talking about Division I athletes that were hand picked from all over the country because they were such outstanding football players in high school. Teaching them how to lift with a purpose? Practice with a purpose? What does that even mean? What does that have to do with making a basic tackle - something you're taught in Pop Warner and has nothing to do with a "system"? What does that have to do with playing until the whistle - something you're taught in Pop Warner and has nothing to with a "system"? What does that have to do with asinine play calling and absolutely awful game preparation this staff is supposedly so good at? Is that part of their "system"?
No clue what it takes to win consistently? Are you telling me these kids never won a game in high school or were part of championship teams?

The excuses thrown around here continue to amaze me......
 

Art Vandelay said:
This is another pathetic excuse. We're talking about Division I athletes that were hand picked from all over the country because they were such outstanding football players in high school. Teaching them how to lift with a purpose? Practice with a purpose? What does that even mean? What does that have to do with making a basic tackle - something you're taught in Pop Warner and has nothing to do with a "system"? What does that have to do with playing until the whistle - something you're taught in Pop Warner and has nothing to with a "system"? What does that have to do with asinine play calling and absolutely awful game preparation this staff is supposedly so good at? Is that part of their "system"?
No clue what it takes to win consistently? Are you telling me these kids never won a game in high school or were part of championship teams?

The excuses thrown around here continue to amaze me......
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Too bad winning in High School or Pop Warner doesn't mean jack in College.

Yes, this year has been difficult to watch and disappointing but holy sh*t give the man more than 4 games.
 

I'm willing to give the staff more than 4 games but there are red flags flying all over the place. Yes, this staff has a winning track record but mostly at schools nobody has heard of. They have been at the helm for only 4 games and already own 2 of the most embarrassing losses in school history. Lots of ground to make up......
 

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