Newly released video shows full encounter between Nelson and Kolstad

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Iceland12 said:
Fair enough. We just disagree on what started this one.
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What makes you so sure Nelson went after Kolstad inside the bar? Are there witness accounts that I'm missing? Neither of the two witness accounts that I recall reading (?), really painted the picture you describe. I went back & looked it up out of curiosity, here's what was stated to police:

"Officer Kruger asked M.V. (Nelson's girlfriend) what happened by the bus stop/shelter. M.V stated that earlier a bouncer had kissed her hand, which made Nelson upset as he is very protective of her. M.V. stated that after the incident, they walked towards the bus stop and some guy she had never seen before (I.K.) came up to Nelson and made a comment and the comment made Nelson very upset. M.V stated that some guy came flying in and knocked out the guy that made the statement to Nelson. M.V. stated that they walked away after all of it happened.

Officer Brent Gagnon assisted as well. Gagnon spoke to S.T., an adult male. S.T. stated that he is good friends with I.K. S.T. stated that he and I.K. were at Blue Bricks and left to go to South Street which was less crowded. They were walking through the mall area, and they ran into Nelson who was with some friends. S.T. stated that Nelson and I.K. began arguing about something, and S.T. stated it was a 'heated' verbal exchange. S.T. remembered Nelson saying something about someone kissing his girlfriend but was unsure if it was directed at I.K. He mentioned that I.K. easily became defensive, so he spoke with Nelson in an attempt to de-escalate the situation. While he was speaking with Nelson, I.K struck Nelson in the upper back shoulder area. S.T. described the punch as a 'non-fighting' punch. He stated that he immediately tried to calm Nelson down by telling him to let it go and that he would be removing I.K. from the area. S.T. turned around and noticed I.K. lying in the street."

The girlfriend claims they were outside when I.K., a guy she'd never seen before came up to them & made a comment that angered Nelson. No mention of them arguing in the bar. If that's true (not saying it is), why would I.K. be giving someone he didn't know a hard time?

I.K.'s buddy also claims they were outside when they ran into Nelson & friends. He claims he heard Nelson say something about someone kissing his girlfriend but wasn't sure it was directed at I.K. He mentions I.K. "easily became defensive" & that they engaged in a "heated verbal exchange". If that's true (not saying it is) then why isn't I.K. held to the same standard as Nelson & expected to just walk away? His own friend is saying he was "easily" got defensive & willingly got into a "heated verbal exchange". Again, IF you believe his statement, Nelson was walking away from this & trying to de-escalate it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/224107166/Shelley-Charges
 



Costa Rican Gopher said:
What makes you so sure Nelson went after Kolstad inside the bar
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"Kaus told an investigator it was an incident with a bouncer at Blue Bricks that eventually led to the argument between Nelson and Kolstad that ended with punches being thrown. Nelson was able to just walk into the bar without being carded and Veroeven had a fake identification card, Kaus said.

"We were going to Blue Bricks and, uh, me and Phil went in and then she got stopped by the, the bouncer that was working there and the guy was trying to hit on her," Kaus said, according to a transcript of the interview. "And Phil, obviously, took it like that she was letting him hit on her. And then he got upset that she was like because he like kissed her and stuff. I didn't know bouncers could do that stuff, but whatever."

At that point Nelson started ignoring Veroeven, which made her upset, Kaus said. According to other witnesses Nelson and Veroeven had gone to Blue Bricks twice that night and it's not clear in Kaus' interview if the incident with the bouncer happened the first time or the second time. It was after the second time they were at the bar that Kaus ran into Thompson as he and Kolstad were leaving Buffalo Wild Wings.

Thompson told investigators he and Kolstad had been drinking at South Street when they decided to go to Buffalo Wild Wings for some food. They left, however, because the line was too long. They decided to walk to Kolstad's house, but Thompson stopped to talk to Kaus.

Kaus told investigators Kolstad was being nice to Nelson, wishing him luck on his decision to leave the University of Minnesota to play quarterback for Rutgers. The argument started because Nelson mistook Kolstad for the bouncer.

"(They) came up to Phil and they're like, 'Hey, dude, best of luck at Rutgers. I hope everything works out,'" Kaus said. "But the kicker is that the bouncer that kissed her hand is half white, half black. Kolstad is half white, half black. Phil thought Kolstad was the bouncer."

When Nelson accused Kolstad of trying to hit on his girlfriend, Kolstad told Nelson he was married and wouldn't do that, Kaus said. At that point Nelson pushed Kolstad hard, which made Kolstad angry. That's when Kaus grabbed Kolstad and Thompson grabbed Nelson and took the men in different directions. Kaus and Thompson both said they tried to keep the other two men from taking the argument any further.


"I'm like Isaac you don't want to do this," Kaus said. "You have a kid, your wife's three weeks away from having another kid. You don't need to be doing this kind of stuff. I go Phil is, he's intoxicated. I know you hate that he just shoved you like that, but it's not worth it."

Kolstad didn't listen. He got away from Kaus and ran toward Nelson and Thompson.

"Sucker punched him in the back of the head and then Phil like stumbled around like, I mean I'm sure because he got hit in the back of the head. Then all of a sudden, right after Kolstad punched Phil in the back of the head, some dude in a red shirt outta nowhere came and just clocked him. Clocked Kolstad.

"I'm sure he was knocked out, that's what knocked him out. Then Phil kicked Kolstad in the head."

Wrong suspect

Nelson was arrested as he walked away from the downtown mall area at about 2:20 a.m. Shelley allegedly ran from the scene and wasn't arrested until the next day after he was identified by other witnesses. Nelson and Shelley didn't know each other, but, initially, police didn't believe that.

Their first suspect for the person who punched Kolstad was Jack Mages, 21, of Mankato. He had been with Nelson, Kaus, Derek Haefner and Andrew Frentz, all former Mankato West High School athletes, at South Street Station. It appears from interviews with Nelson and witnesses that the reasons he was a suspect was he was wearing a red shirt, had a similar build as Shelley and had been with Nelson. Witnesses had told police that the man who punched Kolstad was wearing a red shirt.

When officers arrived at Mages' door later in the day on May 11, he told them he knew nothing about what had happened. He said he and the rest of the group had been with Nelson and Veroeven while they were waiting in line at Red Rocks. Nelson and Veroeven were already being "snippy" with each other because of the incident with the bouncer at Blue Bricks.
When the group left because the wait at Red Rocks was too long, Nelson broke away from the group and went into Blue Bricks. Veroeven followed him and the rest of the group walked to South Street again, which was where the group had been before walking to Red Rocks.

Mages also said he couldn't believe Nelson, one of his best friends, had gotten into a fight.

"I've never seen Phil in a fight, but I could see, like where, if someone did something to Mal," Mages told investigators. "He would just leave. He would never look for a fight. Never. And he doesn't like attention, so . . ."

Mages was able to prove he wasn't the person who punched Kolstad. He showed the officers his red shirt, which wasn't ripped. It was clear in a surveillance video showing the punches that the red shirt on the suspect had been ripped. He was also able to give the officers the name of the woman who gave him and some of the others in the group a ride home before the bars had closed. The incident happened after bar closing.

Jarrid Wassinger, a Mankato man and friend of Kolstad who witnessed the incident, had also told police he had grabbed the man in the red shirt to attempt to stop him from hitting Kolstad. Wassinger said the suspect's shirt ripped when he grabbed it.

After the incident, an officer took Thompson to Kolstad's house because he had been planning to stay there that night. Thompson took care of the Kolstad's young daughter and Kolstad's wife, Molly, was taken to the hospital to see her husband. She eventually learned his doctor wasn't sure he would survive.

Hard reality

When Nelson and Veroeven were interviewed by investigators, they both said the person who had argued with Nelson and punched him had made comments about Veroeven. Both also said they had never met Kolstad.

"Yea, I mean he was like, you know, I was with your girlfriend," Nelson told an investigator during an interview at the jail. "Like what, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Like, I mean that type of stuff."

Nelson admitted to pushing Kolstad before walking away. He said he was punched in the back of the head seconds later.

"I just remember popping back up and the seeing like I was just I was really out of it and I remember people kinda like holding me up and then somebody in a red shirt hitting the guy to the ground. All of the sudden, yea, I was walking across the street like over by where the cops got me. So I mean it was like a big haze after that and I just remember basically loosing my vision for awhile."

Nelson said he didn't remember kicking Kolstad.

Veroeven was interviewed later in the day on May 11. She hadn't talked to Nelson since his arrest. She said Nelson pushed/hit Kolstad, who she had never met before, first but Kolstad started the fight.

"I was standing right next to Philip and the guy goes, 'I'm getting with your girlfriend tonight and that's what put him over the edge," she said.

When Nelson was asked to use a scale of one to 10 to estimate how intoxicated he was at the time, Nelson said, "Like six maybe." He said he had the most to drink at South Street Station and thought he only had a shot at Blue Bricks. Nelson had a blood-alcohol concentration of .12 when he was tested after his arrest and Veroeven, who was cited for underage drinking, had a BAC of .13. Kolstad's BAC was .16. Shelley wasn't tested because he wasn't arrested until the following night.

Still thinking the person who punched Kolstad knew Nelson, the investigators tried several times to get him to identify the suspect. They told him Kolstad was badly injured and it was "going to be on him" if the other man wasn't found.

Nelson was eventually allowed to call Veroeven from the jail. Like all calls made by inmates, the conversation was recorded. Nelson told Veroeven he was extremely scared. Veroeven told him he wouldn't be in jail if the man in the red shirt, who hadn't been arrested at the time, hadn't punched Kolstad.

The end of their conversation shows how tragic the situation has been for three young men.

"Pray that, that guy's head is OK for me, OK," Nelson said.

"I will," Veroeven answered. "I'm praying on both sides."

http://www.mankatofreepress.com/new...cle_7d64ceb2-82f7-11e4-b463-0752aca59d57.html

So these parts:


Kaus told investigators Kolstad was being nice to Nelson, wishing him luck on his decision to leave the University of Minnesota to play quarterback for Rutgers. The argument started because Nelson mistook Kolstad for the bouncer.

"(They) came up to Phil and they're like, 'Hey, dude, best of luck at Rutgers. I hope everything works out,'" Kaus said. "But the kicker is that the bouncer that kissed her hand is half white, half black. Kolstad is half white, half black. Phil thought Kolstad was the bouncer."

When Nelson accused Kolstad of trying to hit on his girlfriend, Kolstad told Nelson he was married and wouldn't do that, Kaus said. At that point Nelson pushed Kolstad hard, which made Kolstad angry. That's when Kaus grabbed Kolstad and Thompson grabbed Nelson and took the men in different directions. Kaus and Thompson both said they tried to keep the other two men from taking the argument any further.
 


Very tragic set of circumstances that started with Nelson confronting the wrong guy or his girlfriend trying to get Nelson upset. Kolstad overreacted, that "shove" was a shot, but anybody who thinks that shot at Nelson started things just isn't correct.
 

Here's the only witness to actually testify so far to my knowledge:

"It was shortly after 2 a.m. and a lot of people were outside the bars between the Cherry Street parking ramp and Rounders and Blue Bricks. Thompson saw a person he knew walking with Nelson and the two started a conversation. As they were talking, Nelson and Kolstad started arguing, Thompson said. Other people later told Thompson that Kolstad had said something about Nelson's girlfriend.

Thompson grabbed Nelson by the arm and walked him about 20 feet away from Kolstad. While Thompson was talking to Nelson, Kolstad came up from behind the two of them and threw what a police officer described as a "haymaker" punch that knocked both Thompson and Nelson to the ground."
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Here's the only witness to actually testify so far to my knowledge:

"It was shortly after 2 a.m. and a lot of people were outside the bars between the Cherry Street parking ramp and Rounders and Blue Bricks. Thompson saw a person he knew walking with Nelson and the two started a conversation. As they were talking, Nelson and Kolstad started arguing, Thompson said. Other people later told Thompson that Kolstad had said something about Nelson's girlfriend.

Thompson grabbed Nelson by the arm and walked him about 20 feet away from Kolstad. While Thompson was talking to Nelson, Kolstad came up from behind the two of them and threw what a police officer described as a "haymaker" punch that knocked both Thompson and Nelson to the ground."
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Thompson is quoted extensively in the Mankato Free Press article on what he and others told investigators. You want to ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative fine. Go play with someone else.

- Thompson told investigators he and Kolstad had been drinking at South Street when they decided to go to Buffalo Wild Wings for some food. They left, however, because the line was too long. They decided to walk to Kolstad's house, but Thompson stopped to talk to Kaus.

Kaus told investigators Kolstad was being nice to Nelson, wishing him luck on his decision to leave the University of Minnesota to play quarterback for Rutgers. The argument started because Nelson mistook Kolstad for the bouncer.

"(They) came up to Phil and they're like, 'Hey, dude, best of luck at Rutgers. I hope everything works out,'" Kaus said. "But the kicker is that the bouncer that kissed her hand is half white, half black. Kolstad is half white, half black. Phil thought Kolstad was the bouncer."

When Nelson accused Kolstad of trying to hit on his girlfriend, Kolstad told Nelson he was married and wouldn't do that, Kaus said. At that point Nelson pushed Kolstad hard, which made Kolstad angry. That's when Kaus grabbed Kolstad and Thompson grabbed Nelson and took the men in different directions. Kaus and Thompson both said they tried to keep the other two men from taking the argument any further...

- "Veroeven(Nelson's girlfriend) was interviewed later in the day on May 11. She hadn't talked to Nelson since his arrest. She said Nelson pushed/hit Kolstad, who she had never met before, first but Kolstad started the fight.

"I was standing right next to Philip and the guy goes, 'I'm getting with your girlfriend tonight and that's what put him over the edge," she said."

- Nelson admitted to pushing Kolstad before walking away. He said he was punched in the back of the head seconds later.
 

So...Kolstad gets pushed by a drunk guy who has clearly mistaken him for someone else. Kolstad then ignores his friend's attempt to diffuse the situation and runs back after a few seconds and hits Nelson from behind. Thanks for clearing that up.
 



Spoofin said:
Really? I assume you are being called as a witness because you seem to know info no one else does yet.
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The video is witness enough.
Watch his body go down, he is out. There is no resistance from his body as he goes down.
If you've ever seen a professional boxer or fighter knocked unconscious, that's exactly what it looks like.
 

WCCO doing another story on Kolstad on Monday's 10pm news. Mike Max does a sit down interview with Kolstad.
 

gold0383 said:
So...Kolstad gets pushed by a drunk guy who has clearly mistaken him for someone else. Kolstad then ignores his friend's attempt to diffuse the situation and runs back after a few seconds and hits Nelson from behind. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Tragic mix of booze, anger, jealousy and mistaken identity. You can look at all kinds of places where it could have been stopped. Nelson and his girfriend shouldn't have been drinking underage. Nelson didn't have to strike out at Kolstad or mistake him in the first place. Kolstad should have just let it go. He didn't have to slander Veroeven nor break away from his friends who were trying to stop the escalation. He didn't have to take that cheap shot from behind that sent Nelson down.

Shelley didn't have to take his cheap shot that knocked Kolstad down. The people "holding Nelson up" could have held him in check. Nelson didn't need to kick a man already laying out in the street.

Just don't know how people can take sides in this. There are no heroes here. Only a lot of victims of themselves.
 

Iceland12 said:
Tragic mix of booze, anger, jealousy and mistaken identity. You can look at all kinds of places where it could have been stopped. Nelson and his girfriend shouldn't have been drinking underage. Nelson didn't have to strike out at Kolstad or mistake him in the first place. Kolstad should have just let it go. He didn't have to slander Veroeven nor break away from his friends who were trying to stop the escalation. He didn't have to take that cheap shot from behind that sent Nelson down.

Shelley didn't have to take his cheap shot that knocked Kolstad down. The people "holding Nelson up" could have held him in check. Nelson didn't need to kick a man already laying out in the street.

Just don't know how people can take sides in this. There are no heroes here. Only a lot of victims of themselves.
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The only real side I see being taken in this thread is that most of us are taking a different view of Kolstad and the role he played in everything. He has gone from the victim to just as big a part of the problem as Nelson and Shelly are. Nelson still deserves whatever punishments come his way but Kolstad deserves to get punished for his actions as well.

The bottom line to me is the Kolstad had the true opportunity to end this without any punches being thrown. He could have been the bigger man and ignored the shove from the stupid drunk in the bar, instead he chose to sucker punch the guy from behind. Shoving a guy in a bar won't get you arrested, sucker punching someone in the back of the head will. 100% does not make what happened to him right or justifiable but he could have and should have just walked away from the situation instead of going the stupid macho drunk guy way and looking for a fight.

All three men deserve to be punished for their actions that night, not just Nelson and Shelly. There is no hero, there also is no true villain anymore after seeing the video of what went down.
 



Why isn't the bar shut down for serving booze to minors? For failure to control how much it served, resulting in drunken patrons? For failure to properly train their staff, namely the bouncer hitting on an underage patron? Isn't there liability in this that extends to the business?

Would none of this have occurred if the bar just never allowed Philip Nelson and his friends entry? The bar is partially liable and should be punished in part for this incident.
 

drinks at Northpoint said:
The video is witness enough.
Watch his body go down, he is out. There is no resistance from his body as he goes down.
If you've ever seen a professional boxer or fighter knocked unconscious, that's exactly what it looks like.
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I agree. I somehow was mistaken in your point that I quoted. Not sure how as it was clear. My bad.

This is obviously a very emotional topic. One in which there are no winners. Not as much fun as discussing football. I'm going to stick to that from now on.
 

I have seen thousands of guys go down in basketball games and all of them looked like boxers going down who were out, except, none of the basketball players were knocked out. Why is it that they look the same? I have watched hundreds of boxing matches hundreds of basketball games. Please explain how they are so very different. I suspect that your schema is a bit cloudy and not as perfect a "knockout" detector as you think.
 

Dean S said:
I have seen thousands of guys go down in basketball games and all of them looked like boxers going down who were out, except, none of the basketball players were knocked out. Why is it that they look the same? I have watched hundreds of boxing matches hundreds of basketball games. Please explain how they are so very different. I suspect that your schema is a bit cloudy and not as perfect a "knockout" detector as you think.
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It's a friggen message board, I gave my opinion.
Enjoy your day.
 

Iceland12 said:
Thompson is quoted extensively in the Mankato Free Press article on what he and others told investigators. You want to ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative fine. Go play with someone else.

- Thompson told investigators he and Kolstad had been drinking at South Street when they decided to go to Buffalo Wild Wings for some food. They left, however, because the line was too long. They decided to walk to Kolstad's house, but Thompson stopped to talk to Kaus.

Kaus told investigators Kolstad was being nice to Nelson, wishing him luck on his decision to leave the University of Minnesota to play quarterback for Rutgers. The argument started because Nelson mistook Kolstad for the bouncer.

"(They) came up to Phil and they're like, 'Hey, dude, best of luck at Rutgers. I hope everything works out,'" Kaus said. "But the kicker is that the bouncer that kissed her hand is half white, half black. Kolstad is half white, half black. Phil thought Kolstad was the bouncer."

When Nelson accused Kolstad of trying to hit on his girlfriend, Kolstad told Nelson he was married and wouldn't do that, Kaus said. At that point Nelson pushed Kolstad hard, which made Kolstad angry. That's when Kaus grabbed Kolstad and Thompson grabbed Nelson and took the men in different directions. Kaus and Thompson both said they tried to keep the other two men from taking the argument any further...

- "Veroeven(Nelson's girlfriend) was interviewed later in the day on May 11. She hadn't talked to Nelson since his arrest. She said Nelson pushed/hit Kolstad, who she had never met before, first but Kolstad started the fight.

"I was standing right next to Philip and the guy goes, 'I'm getting with your girlfriend tonight and that's what put him over the edge," she said."

- Nelson admitted to pushing Kolstad before walking away. He said he was punched in the back of the head seconds later.
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Well this is actually more damning imo, but it doesn't support what you've been saying on any level. You insisted on several occasions that Nelson went after Kolstad in the bar. Now, your own links show that was never the case. I don't blame you, there have been a lot of common misconceptions.

I come back to this point & generally I think we agree. Kolstad was a willing participant, not a victim. You say Nelson started it by arguing with Kolstad, which I absolutely disagree with, but thats beside the point. It sure didn't sound like Kolstad was doing anything to de-escalate the situation. His own friend says he "easily became defensive" & that the argument was a "heated exchange". Then throw in him allegedly insulting Nelson's girlfriend & it seems clear that he was in fact escalating the situation. This is the first I heard about Nelson allegedly pushing Kolstad & if it's true it's an important detail as it makes Kolstad look less thuggish. The only one who tried to de-escalate at any point was Nelson when he walked away from this nonsense. Like I've said about 20 times by now, this was two drunk jocks, being drunk jocks. I doubt this will ever go to trial, but if it does then a jury & a judge can decide what a fair punishment for Nelson is.
 

Dean S said:
Why isn't the bar shut down for serving booze to minors? For failure to control how much it served, resulting in drunken patrons? For failure to properly train their staff, namely the bouncer hitting on an underage patron? Isn't there liability in this that extends to the business?

Would none of this have occurred if the bar just never allowed Philip Nelson and his friends entry? The bar is partially liable and should be punished in part for this incident.
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The same reason McDonald's didn't have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to the woman who spilled hot coffee on her lap. Oh wait... Let's put some blame on their parents. Maybe University of Minnesota for not instilling good morals and values. I guess, Dean, I think we all are faced with challenging circumstances but how we respond to them defines us. In the case of the three men in question, they all chose poorly and alcohol as an excuse is unacceptable to me.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Well this is actually more damning imo, but it doesn't support what you've been saying on any level. You insisted on several occasions that Nelson went after Kolstad in the bar. Now, your own links show that was never the case. I don't blame you, there have been a lot of common misconceptions.

I come back to this point & generally I think we agree. Kolstad was a willing participant, not a victim. You say Nelson started it by arguing with Kolstad, which I absolutely disagree with, but thats beside the point. It sure didn't sound like Kolstad was doing anything to de-escalate the situation. His own friend says he "easily became defensive" & that the argument was a "heated exchange". Then throw in him allegedly insulting Nelson's girlfriend & it seems clear that he was in fact escalating the situation. This is the first I heard about Nelson allegedly pushing Kolstad & if it's true it's an important detail as it makes Kolstad look less thuggish. The only one who tried to de-escalate at any point was Nelson when he walked away from this nonsense. Like I've said about 20 times by now, this was two drunk jocks, being drunk jocks. I doubt this will ever go to trial, but if it does then a jury & a judge can decide what a fair punishment for Nelson is.
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Yes, i was wrong about the first altercation being inside the bar. Bullshat on not supporting the position of Nelson starting things, but it does completely ruin your statement.

"100% not physical. Also doesn't sound like Kolstad did anything to defuse that situation. I'm not going to look it up, but Kolstad's friend told the police something to the effect of Kolstad "Easily became offended", then got into it with Nelson both inside & then outside, before Nelson decided to de-escalate it & walk away. Two big bucks locking horns."

Can't understand why you didn't admit your mistake? You still just trolling now or just incapable of doing it?

Nelson walked away after starting the argument and striking the first blow. A "hit/push" as his girlfriend described it. That's hardly de-escalating the situation.

You seem set on making Kolstad the "villain" here. Who knows why. Nelson started it. Kolstad greatly ratcheted-up the situation and Nelson got his last shot in after Shelley should have ended things when he took his cheap shot knocking Kolstad to the ground and unconscious.

You need to make Nelson the victim here for whatever reason. He started things and it ended badly for everyone involved. He, Kolstad and Shelley all escalating things. The only people who tried to defuse the situation, the friends, couldn't get it done.


Tragic mix of booze, anger, jealousy and mistaken identity. You can look at all kinds of places where it could have been stopped. Nelson and his girfriend shouldn't have been drinking underage. Nelson didn't have to strike out at Kolstad or mistake him in the first place. Kolstad should have just let it go. He didn't have to slander Veroeven nor break away from his friends who were trying to stop the escalation. He didn't have to take that cheap shot from behind that sent Nelson reeling.

Shelley didn't have to take his cheap shot that knocked Kolstad down. The people "holding Nelson up" could have held him in check. Nelson didn't need to kick a man already laying out in the street.

Just don't know how people can take sides in this. There are no heroes here. Only a lot of victims of themselves.
 

Iceland12 said:
Yes, i was wrong about the first altercation being inside the bar. Bullshat on not supporting the position of Nelson starting things, but it does completely ruin your statement.

"100% not physical. Also doesn't sound like Kolstad did anything to defuse that situation. I'm not going to look it up, but Kolstad's friend told the police something to the effect of Kolstad "Easily became offended", then got into it with Nelson both inside & then outside, before Nelson decided to de-escalate it & walk away. Two big bucks locking horns."

Can't understand why you didn't admit your mistake? You still just trolling now or just incapable of doing it?


Tragic mix of booze, anger, jealousy and mistaken identity. You can look at all kinds of places where it could have been stopped. Nelson and his girfriend shouldn't have been drinking underage. Nelson didn't have to strike out at Kolstad or mistake him in the first place. Kolstad should have just let it go. He didn't have to slander Veroeven nor break away from his friends who were trying to stop the escalation. He didn't have to take that cheap shot from behind that sent Nelson reeling.

Shelley didn't have to take his cheap shot that knocked Kolstad down. The people "holding Nelson up" could have held him in check. Nelson didn't need to kick a man already laying out in the street.

Perceptions. Can't live with them. Can't live without them...
Just don't know how people can take sides in this. There are no heroes here. Only a lot of victims of themselves.
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I think you are a wise enough person to understand this: Nelson was had left the building and was clearly walking away. How exactly does that make him the instigator of the fight. He had disengaged. I know Kolstad might not have disengaged from the tit for tat push, but does that make it necessary to undertake an assault from behind?
 

Dean S said:
I think you are a wise enough person to understand this: Nelson was had left the building and was clearly walking away. How exactly does that make him the instigator of the fight. He had disengaged. I know Kolstad might not have disengaged from the tit for tat push, but does that make it necessary to undertake an assault from behind?
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??

You read the below and thought I said that Kolstad needed to hit Nelson from behind? How in the world did you conclude that? As for Nelson, yes falsely confronting Kolstad, pushing/hitting him did instigate the rest of the fight walking away or not. If Nelson had just kept things verbal and walked away then no, I wouldn't.

Either way though, Nelson assaulted Kolstad. That starts things down the wrong road.

"Tragic mix of booze, anger, jealousy and mistaken identity. You can look at all kinds of places where it could have been stopped. Nelson and his girfriend shouldn't have been drinking underage. Nelson didn't have to strike out at Kolstad or mistake him in the first place. Kolstad should have just let it go. He didn't have to slander Veroeven nor break away from his friends who were trying to stop the escalation. He didn't have to take that cheap shot from behind that sent Nelson down.
Shelley didn't have to take his cheap shot that knocked Kolstad down. The people "holding Nelson up" could have held him in check. Nelson didn't need to kick a man already laying out in the street.

Just don't know how people can take sides in this. There are no heroes here. Only a lot of victims of themselves."
 

Does anyone want to head down to Mankato on Saturday and re-enact the whole thing?
 

On one level the outcome should be simple. The prosecutor will settle for a misdemeanor plea from Nelson, with few long term legal implications (although certainly a tainted reputation). Kolstad will not be charged, simply because he has suffered enough. I think that would be a reasonable outcome for an unreasonable situation.

The wild card is Shelly. Hard to see how the prosecutor can settle for less than the full force of the law. Not sure how that will impact a settlement for Nelson.

The prosecutor has great discretion. I hope it is used wisely.
 

Iceland12 said:
Just don't know how people can take sides in this. There are no heroes here. Only a lot of victims of themselves."
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Valid points in your post. For me, I think I started backing Nelson when this first came out and all the Gopherhole Saints came out and said how horrible he was, deserved to be punished severely, and was the scum of the earth. I never saw it that way. I saw it for what it was; a situation that gets played out in nearly every sizable town every Friday and Saturday night. Many GH'ERS - if we're honest with ourselves- have been in this situation at some point in there life, but what I failed to see on this forum from day one was much if any compassion for Phill. I think he has suffered enough as well. He has surrendered his reputation, as well as any chance of a free education I'm assuming. For me, that's enough punishment for Phill. Maybe too much.
 

A little salt on the perceptions of a few and wow, a virtual fight breaks out.

3rd party liability is a real concern for bar owners. Licensing is another concern as too many carding infractions and they can be shut down. Serving too much alcohol to a customer to the point of observed intoxication opens the bar up to 3rd party liability.

Drinks at Northpoint, this next section is for your edification.

Dram shop laws refer to the liability of bars who serve alcohol to visibly intoxicated patrons. It specifically specifies liability to harm down to others as a result of injury that the drunken party confers upon somebody else. In this case, dram shop laws would apply to Nelson's action after drinking. Civil liability could result.

All Kolstad has to really demonstrate was Nelson's proximate cause of intoxication was drinking at the bar. Under section 340 a of Minnesota code, it is a FELONY to serve a minor who later is injured or causes injury to another.

I stand by my 3rd party liability claim of earlier as being true and factual. The code does not specify how injuries or death occur other than the injuries can be shown to result from serving alcohol and that contributed to impairment. And, the code does not specifically disallow liability protection to its employees as the injured parties, even though they are held liable for upholding that standard.

I'm just saying, as a citizen who can read and understand the law (it isn't restricted to lawyers to read and understand law), that there is a possibility of 3rd party liability. Just a possibility.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
WCCO doing another story on Kolstad on Monday's 10pm news. Mike Max does a sit down interview with Kolstad.
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I've been as hard on Kolstad as anybody for his involvement, but after seeing that promo for the interview, I feel really bad. He's talking like a 4-year-old, saying that he just wants his family to be proud of him.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I've been as hard on Kolstad as anybody for his involvement, but after seeing that promo for the interview, I feel really bad. He's talking like a 4-year-old, saying that he just wants his family to be proud of him.
Click to expand...

What's the point of this interview? Outside of his lawyers looking for sympathy for the civil suit they're going to file, I don't see much else. It's not like WCCO is going to ask any hard hitting questions such as, do you think you should be charged for sucker punching Phil Nelson? How about, what's it feel like knowing you've robbed your wife of conversation and physical intimacy for as long as she's with you due to the decision you made to not walk away from a fight?
 

kellyleeks said:
What's the point of this interview? Outside of his lawyers looking for sympathy for the civil suit they're going to file, I don't see much else. It's not like WCCO is going to ask any hard hitting questions such as, do you think you should be charged for sucker punching Phil Nelson? How about, what's it feel like knowing you've robbed your wife of conversation and physical intimacy for as long as she's with you due to the decision you made to not walk away from a fight?
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How dare you question the journalistic integrity of The Pride of Gaylord, Mike Max!
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I've been as hard on Kolstad as anybody for his involvement, but after seeing that promo for the interview, I feel really bad. He's talking like a 4-year-old, saying that he just wants his family to be proud of him.
Click to expand...

If that's what he wants, he should try to prevent them from watching the video of him assaulting someone with a blindside sucker punch. I hear what you are saying with this comment, and I certainly think you could make a fair argument that his injuries are an excessive punishment for his crime, but as I said earlier, his actions could have easily caused those same type of injuries in someone else. We can (and over the last 6 pages certainly did) debate to what extent Nelson's conduct in the bar contributed to this confrontation. However, whether you feel that Kolstad instigated an altercation separate from a bar argument that had concluded or significantly escalated an ongoing altercation, this was not a case of an innocent bystander suffering a horrific injury. His condition is tragic, but if he is asking "why me?" he should rewatch the video.
 

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