NCAA makes stiff accusations against Memphis

The quote isn't about integrity. As you note, every conference has issues there. The point of the quote is that some schools , including essentially all the Big Ten (except Wisconsin:)), have higher standards for athlete acceptance than the NCAA minimum. At Minnesota, for example, you can meet NCAA requiremetns but still not get accepted. I can't speak to how or whether those standards get bent, although I do know that the U allows a certain percentage of it's entrants to be below it's normally very tough general admission standards, both to give kids a chance and to facilitate the admission of athletes. Of course some athletes would also meet the first (higher) academic standards, but most would not. even so, there are some who meet the NCAA rules but who still cannot meet Minnesota's second threshold.

While I can't speak to every SEC school, my understanding is that the majority simply use the NCAA minimum as their threshold for admitting athletes.


That part in bold is the problem. There should be no facillitation on the basis of athletic prowess. You can't stand above the fray, no matter if you're standards are higher than the bare minimum, because you're still manipulating entrance requirements for the sake of the success of your football and/or basketball programs.

I'm not going to even touch the issues of what happens once these borderline athletes get on campus. The Ann Arbor paper did a series on this issue last year and it illustrates what I'm talking about: You're there to play ball and to stay eligible. Academic concerns are, for the most part, secondary to that goal.


Like I said it can be noble in a way, to offer an opportunity to someone who would not have it otherwise, but we can't file it under altruism or concern for the well being of someone because of the tangled economic factors that are involved.
 

Actually the minimum score a student-athlete could score on the SAT is 400, combining the Math and Verbal/Critical Reasoning of the SAT. The "student" would have to obtain a core high school GPA of 3.55 or above to be eligible with that score. The SAT was reworked a few years ago and instead of two sections, now has three sections for a possible score of 2400 points (800 per section), but NCAA eligibility only looks at the two traditional sections. If Rose (or a stand-in for Rose) scored 750, they could have scored 400 out of 800 on Math and 350 of 800 in Verbal. In looking at the <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/understanding.html" target="blank" >college board website</a>, the national average for each section is about 500.

As for the urban legend about scoring a certain number of points just for writing your name correctly on the test, <a href="http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/sat.asp" target="blank" >snopes</a> proves that to be just a myth.

The entire score chart for the SAT and ACT/core h.s. courses is included in this <a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-09%20CBSA9c29e699-00f6-48ba-98a9-6456c9b98957.pdf" target="blank" >link</a>

As for Memphis' academic standards versus other schools, when it comes to NCAA eligibility, the test scores and course qualifications are the same. It's been a couple years since I've worked real closely with the standards, but I know the NCAA was looking to beef up the core course requirements to make things more standard across the D-1 landscape.

Thanks Coolhand. Was just curious....;)
 

That part in bold is the problem. There should be no facillitation on the basis of athletic prowess. You can't stand above the fray, no matter if you're standards are higher than the bare minimum, because you're still manipulating entrance requirements for the sake of the success of your football and/or basketball programs.

I'm not going to even touch the issues of what happens once these borderline athletes get on campus. The Ann Arbor paper did a series on this issue last year and it illustrates what I'm talking about: You're there to play ball and to stay eligible. Academic concerns are, for the most part, secondary to that goal.


Like I said it can be noble in a way, to offer an opportunity to someone who would not have it otherwise, but we can't file it under altruism or concern for the well being of someone because of the tangled economic factors that are involved.

Given that the vast majority of the kids that get into MN under that standard are not athletes, I don't think your claim that they're manipulating entrance requirements for the sake of athletic programs holds water.

And even if you think it does, it's an unworkable theoretical construct. If Cal made it's athletes meet the same requirements as the average student there, they'd never field a D1 team. Same is true of stanford, duke, Michigan, Virginia, UNC, and yes, Minnesota. And the list goes on. That's because the schools are so good academically that lots of kids want to go there. Why would you penalize a school that has great academics and thus admits mostly great students by saying that they're then not allowed to have D1 (hi-D1 not Ivy league) athletics? Of course you could say that we should drop the whole concept of student athletes and just hire your basketball team without regard to academics, but that has all sorts of issues including dilution of interest and having to distinguish between revenue and non-revenue sports (which vary by school.)
 

I wasn't clear enough on my explanation of the score, Jim V2. I should have said, the lowest score a student can achieve on the SAT and be eligible for college athletics is 400. It is possible to score lower than 400 by getting more than 400 of the 800 questions wrong; however, if a student just fills out their name and address and doesn't fill out any of the score sheet, they will still score 200 on the test, because of the way college board scores the test (penalized for wrong answers, but not penalized for leaving answers blank).

Coolhand, I don't think that's right. I don't think you can score below 200 on either of the two sections, so then you cannot score below 400 on the combined. And I know the score is not simply the number of questions you got right--I also don't think there are 800 questions on the test.

Ok--I got tired of typing "I don't think" and just went to the college board site. Here's what the people who make and grade the test say:

"How is the SAT Reasoning Test scored?
Scoring is a two-step process:

1. A raw score is calculated.
One point is added for each multiple-choice question answered correctly.
For multiple-choice questions answered incorrectly, 1/4 point is subtracted:
No points are subtracted for incorrect answers to the mathematics questions requiring student-produced responses.
No points are subtracted for omitted questions.
Then, the total points answered wrong are subtracted from the number answered correctly. If the resulting score is a fraction, it is rounded to the nearest whole number—1/2 or more is rounded up; less than 1/2 is rounded down.
Questions in the SAT equating section do not count toward the score.

2. The raw score is converted to the College Board 200-800 scaled score by a statistical process called equating.
Equating adjusts for slight differences in difficulty between test editions, and ensures that a student's score of, say, 450 on one edition of a test reflects the same ability as a score of 450 on another edition of the test.
Equating also ensures that a student's score does not depend on how well others did on the same edition of the test."

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/sat-reasoning/scores/reports
 

Given that the vast majority of the kids that get into MN under that standard are not athletes, I don't think your claim that they're manipulating entrance requirements for the sake of athletic programs holds water.

And even if you think it does, it's an unworkable theoretical construct. If Cal made it's athletes meet the same requirements as the average student there, they'd never field a D1 team. Same is true of stanford, duke, Michigan, Virginia, UNC, and yes, Minnesota. And the list goes on. That's because the schools are so good academically that lots of kids want to go there. Why would you penalize a school that has great academics and thus admits mostly great students by saying that they're then not allowed to have D1 (hi-D1 not Ivy league) athletics? Of course you could say that we should drop the whole concept of student athletes and just hire your basketball team without regard to academics, but that has all sorts of issues including dilution of interest and having to distinguish between revenue and non-revenue sports (which vary by school.)

I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one Jim.

Now for some more news:

Questions about Robert Dozier's Test Scores back in 2004
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11813089

Did the University of Illinois report Rose
http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=20916
 





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