Mid-Majors?

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Some guy said:
What does that have to do with the gophers
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Looking at the transfers to the U as having played their way up to a top Div 1 school. I'm not interested if they came from a low or mid major.
 


PhiloVance said:
Looking at the transfers to the U as having played their way up to a top Div 1 school. I'm not interested if they came from a low or mid major.
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So you aren’t interested in anyone who isn’t transferring from the ACC, Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, or SEC?

do you include the big East as a major? Am I understanding this correctly?
 

Some guy said:
So you aren’t interested in anyone who isn’t transferring from the ACC, Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, or SEC?

do you include the big East as a major? Am I understanding this correctly?
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How about saying guys that didnt play in a power 6 conference! Doesnt matter whether they are considered low major or mid major.
 



howeda7 said:
To me, it's pretty simple criteria: Do you routinely get more than 1 team in the Tournament? You're a mid-major.
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Nailed it! I might add that a mid-major conference typically has one or more teams in the national rankings at some point during the season. Low major conference teams almost never appear in the rankings. Are there exceptions? Of course - Murray State was rated briefly when Ja Morant was working his magic there.
 

Some guy said:
Yeah but seriously. Who cares how other people classify mid majors and high majors
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gophereric30 said:
How about saying guys that didnt play in a power 6 conference! Doesnt matter whether they are considered low major or mid major.
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It matters in the sense of how good you might be if you're relying on a bunch of transfers (as the Gophers are).

If Team A recruits a handful of all-conference players from low major conferences and Team B recruits a handful of all-conference players from mid major conferences, in most cases Team B will be better.

The original poster is pointing this out. A team made up of low major transfers has a good chance to not be very good in the Big Ten.
 

PhiloVance said:
Looking at the transfers to the U as having played their way up to a top Div 1 school. I'm not interested if they came from a low or mid major.
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Somewhat true but I look at it a little differently - the transfers are aspiring to compete and hopefully succeed at a higher level of competition. IMO it does make a difference where they previously played - it's a more difficult transition to jump from a lower level league where the talent and roster depth is less to an elite P6 league than it is to jump from a mid major to P6 - one could argue that some of the mid major conferences are on a par, or only slightly below, the P6 conferences.
 

tjgopher said:
It matters in the sense of how good you might be if you're relying on a bunch of transfers (as the Gophers are).

If Team A recruits a handful of all-conference players from low major conferences and Team B recruits a handful of all-conference players from mid major conferences, in most cases Team B will be better.

The original poster is pointing this out. A team made up of low major transfers has a good chance to not be very good in the Big Ten.
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This means absolutely nothing as for the gophers are concerned. Just because you are a low major doesnt mean you cant be better than the guy coming to minnesota who is a mid major. This is like saying the 4 star all everything is automatically gonna be better than the 3 star average guy. Who says the 3 star guy cant be better and have a better career and even be all big ten. I guess with a full team of low major transfers your probably right. This team would not be very good. Add in a bunch of other guys including possibly 2 guys from Texas A&M and maybe a couple more D1 transfers along with Gach and Willis and this team might be pretty good.
 



Southpaw said:
Somewhat true but I look at it a little differently - the transfers are aspiring to compete and hopefully succeed at a higher level of competition. IMO it does make a difference where they previously played - it's a more difficult transition to jump from a lower level league where the talent and roster depth is less to an elite P6 league than it is to jump from a mid major to P6 - one could argue that some of the mid major conferences are on a par, or only slightly below, the P6 conferences.
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Which would you prefer a 3 star high school player or players, with less than P6 college experience, who had come out of high school were non ranked or 1 to 2 stars?
 

PhiloVance said:
Which would you prefer a 3 star high school player or players, with less than P6 college experience, who had come out of high school were non ranked or 1 to 2 stars?
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Every situation is different. But once a kid proves he can play at the college level (even at a lower level) his star ranking no longer matters. So if I am trying to win right away I would lean towards the transfer with college experience over a high school kid.

Fans make the mistake of thinking that star ranking is going to follow the kid for the rest of their career. Once a player gets to college it doesn't matter what they were ranked coming out of high school. They have to prove they can play. A highly ranked high school kid is a better bet to succeed over one that is lower ranked but it is not a guarantee by any stretch of the imagination as everyone handles the transition differently.
 

It should go without saying, for transfers, a player's performance in college should supersede their 'star ranking' coming out of HS.
The level of competition that a player has faced also matters. Some on this thread suggest that the terms 'mid-major' and 'low-major' represent a distinction without a difference. I disagree, but if you want to consider the performance of kids from UNH on a par with kids from Wichita State, so be it. I will continue to see a difference--and I hope you will allow me that.
Finally, star rankings and level of competition are General Categories--and only data points among many to consider when evaluating talent. Each kid has their own unique circumstances--and needs to be evaluated individually!
 

CYW5 BornGoph said:
It should go without saying, for transfers, a player's performance in college should supersede their 'star ranking' coming out of HS.
The level of competition that a player has faced also matters. Some on this thread suggest that the terms 'mid-major' and 'low-major' represent a distinction without a difference. I disagree, but if you want to consider the performance of kids from UNH on a par with kids from Wichita State, so be it. I will continue to see a difference--and I hope you will allow me that.
Finally, star rankings and level of competition are General Categories--and only data points among many to consider when evaluating talent. Each kid has their own unique circumstances--and needs to be evaluated individually!
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Good post and I agree with everything you wrote! I do think we have to add another question here: How good were the so-called P6 players you had on your team that were replaced by the mid-majors or low majors? I think these replacement players should be judged by how well they perform vs. someone else who might have played in their absence. Last year's Alihan is a good example. He had good (but not great) stats from a lower major. While he was marginal here, he still was a better option than the players (Hurt, Omersa) who would have played more in his absence.

I think some people are too prone to view players in distinct categories: P6 players vs. mid-majors. The fact is that a reasonably sized minority of P6 players just aren't that good. The transfer portal has really helped to see that. Some players transferring from P6 schools showed very little.
 

CYW5 BornGoph said:
The level of competition that a player has faced also matters. Some on this thread suggest that the terms 'mid-major' and 'low-major' represent a distinction without a difference. I disagree, but if you want to consider the performance of kids from UNH on a par with kids from Wichita State, so be it. I will continue to see a difference--and I hope you will allow me that.
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Agreed. I think most of us can agree that the whole transfer portal situation is a crapshoot. A recent example close to home is our recruitment of transfer athletes form Milwaukee (Horizon League = low major). Akeem Springs was a key addition to the Gophers roster while Brock Stull, who followed 2 years later, was a non-factor. Their stats while playing for Milwaukee were fairly comparable with a slight edge to Stull but the results when playing for the Gophers are markedly different. Without stats to back it up, I would guess that the Stull outcome is more common when moving up from low major to P6. By contrast I was much more confident that Robbins would be an impact player due in large part to the conference he was coming from (MVC, a true mid-major). Bottom Line: I'm hoping more for a Springs-like transition than a Stull-like transition from our low-major transfers.
 

gophereric30 said:
This means absolutely nothing as for the gophers are concerned.
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It absolutely matters, as the Gophers have mostly low major transfers at this point.

gophereric30 said:
I guess with a full team of low major transfers your probably right. This team would not be very good.
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Exactly. Right now, this team is mostly full of low major transfers.

Hopefully it changes before Opening Night in November. Obviously, it will change, as we have several scholarships yet to fill. It is five spots open???
 
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Southpaw said:
Without stats to back it up, I would guess that the Stull outcome is more common when moving up from low major to P6.
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Well, do you understand that by admitting you don't have empirical evidence, your guess isn't worth anything?
 

tjgopher said:
It absolutely matters, as the Gophers have mostly low major transfers at this point.



Exactly. Right now, this team is mostly full of low major transfers.

Hopefully it changes before Opening Night in November. Obviously, it will change, as we have several scholarships yet to fill. It is five spots open???
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Am I counting wrong? I thought out of 12 spots on roster we have 3 low majors right now.
 

gophereric30 said:
Am I counting wrong? I thought out of 12 spots on roster we have 3 low majors right now.
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I'm not sure what the count is.

Right now, it appears there are 8 total players on the current roster (counting incoming transfers).

It appears of those eight players, five are low major/D2 transfers and one is a mid major transfer.

Definitely hard to track, so I could be, and likely am, off a bit.
 

I have: Loewe, William & Mary; Stephens, Lafayette and Sutherlin, UNH, clearly 3 Low-Majors.

Also Gach, Utah (if you want to count him) and Battle, George Washington, 2 Mid-majors

Fox from Northern... D2!

Ihnen and Thompson (incoming), UM orignal recruits.

And Willis is coming in from the College of Charleston, a low major--although he has played for us and Vanderbilt. Categorize him as you wish.

So, by my count, that is a minimum of 3 LM and 1 D2. Plus you can decide about Willis...

Total of 9; hope for the two from A&M would make 11--leaving 2 spots open.
 

CYW5 BornGoph said:
I have: Loewe, William & Mary; Stephens, Lafayette and Sutherlin, UNH, clearly 3 Low-Majors.

Also Gach, Utah (if you want to count him) and Battle, George Washington, 2 Mid-majors

Fox from Northern... D2!

Ihnen and Thompson (incoming), UM orignal recruits.

And Willis is coming in from the College of Charleston, a low major--although he has played for us and Vanderbilt. Categorize him as you wish.

So, by my count, that is a minimum of 3 LM and 1 D2. Plus you can decide about Willis...

Total of 9; hope for the two from A&M would make 11--leaving 2 spots open.
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Yeah, I didn't include Thompson as it relates to incoming transfers, but he does bring the total roster to 9.

So, of nine current players I have six incoming transfers:

Five coming from low major/D2 (Willis, Loewe, Stephens, Sutherlin, Fox)
One coming from mid major (Battle)

As for Gach, he transferred from Utah, a high major/P6 (not mid major).
 

CYW5 BornGoph said:
I have: Loewe, William & Mary; Stephens, Lafayette and Sutherlin, UNH, clearly 3 Low-Majors.

Also Gach, Utah (if you want to count him) and Battle, George Washington, 2 Mid-majors

Fox from Northern... D2!

Ihnen and Thompson (incoming), UM orignal recruits.

And Willis is coming in from the College of Charleston, a low major--although he has played for us and Vanderbilt. Categorize him as you wish.

So, by my count, that is a minimum of 3 LM and 1 D2. Plus you can decide about Willis...

Total of 9; hope for the two from A&M would make 11--leaving 2 spots open.
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Not that it changes what you are saying, but Gach came from a team playing in the Pac-12, which is one of the Power 6 conferences.
 


The semantics are dumb. What matters is that there will be a bigger jump if they are a low major or even D2 so you should manage your expectations.

That being said there have been great Low Major and D2 players who played great at the high major level. Plus plenty of Mid or even High Major players that the Gophers won't consider.

I am not sure if it matters too much what level they come from as long as you make sure to discount it when looking at the stats or watching film. I suppose with the amount of turnover it could be an issue having a bunch of guys make the jump at once.
 

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