Marcus: Hitting on a big-time transfer would put Gophers right in the middle of the pack of BT

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Bad Gopher said:
I do expect the current roster to improve a lot...or at least I hope they do. Gabe's season-long slump was the difference in at least a few close games, and Carr was just a sophomore.
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I am in the camp that does see a roster of guys that will improve. The question is and always has been about will they improve as much or more than other rosters do ? There is a void of consideration to what other programs are doing both in development and recruiting.
 

builtbadgers said:
I am in the camp that does see a roster of guys that will improve. The question is and always has been about will they improve as much or more than other rosters do ? There is a void of consideration to what other programs are doing both in development and recruiting.
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You are right from a logical perspective.

For me it comes down to players growing up and making fewer mistakes, more than a improvement of skill and talent. If our guys do that and become more efficient, it doesn’t matter as much what other teams are doing. Lump that in with “improvement” if you will, but I don’t think talent is the issue (Hole left by Oturu notwithstanding).
 

builtbadgers said:
I am in the camp that does see a roster of guys that will improve. The question is and always has been about will they improve as much or more than other rosters do ? There is a void of consideration to what other programs are doing both in development and recruiting.
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That certainly is a fair question but for many posters on here there is no acknowledgement that any player is even capable of improving. Not many of us were predicting an All-America type campaign from Oturu, an all-conference level performance from Carr, a big jump during the season from Ihnen. etc. etc At one point, we referred to Jordan Murphy as low-motor Murph. Players all allowed to make a jump.
 

bga1 said:
I remember the frosh version of John Thomas. Freeman has a very similar build and athlete and Thomas, like Freeman didn't do much as a frosh. Thomas was never a great offensive player but could finish at the rim, had some hops gave great effort, played good defense and was strong as a bull. I think Freeman can be that here.
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John Thomas was one of my favorite Gophers of all-time. He was an absolute shut down defender, great rebounder, and played the game with a tenacity that few players have. He was so good that he spent close to 10 years in the NBA.

Please never again compare Sam Freeman to John Thomas. If you do you deserve a lifetime ban from GH.
 


John Galt said:
John Thomas was one of my favorite Gophers of all-time. He was an absolute shut down defender, great rebounder, and played the game with a tenacity that few players have. He was so good that he spent close to 10 years in the NBA.

Please never again compare Sam Freeman to John Thomas. If you do you deserve a lifetime ban from GH.
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I am comparing the two.

Sorry, but I am.

John Thomas averaged 10 minutes per game in 93/94 2.5 points per game and 2.5 rebounds and shot 38% from 3 feet and on in (serious). He wasn't playing behind Oturu, he was playing behind Nzigamasabo. Which may explain why he got more minutes than Freeman.

Guys improve. It's okay to say it.
 

bga1 said:
I am comparing the two.

Sorry, but I am.

John Thomas averaged 10 minutes per game in 93/94 2.5 points per game and 2.5 rebounds and shot 38% from 3 feet and on in (serious). He wasn't playing behind Oturu, he was playing behind Nzigamasabo. Which may explain why he got more minutes than Freeman.

Guys improve. It's okay to say it.
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What other great insights do you have? Let me guess, Alihan Demir was Kris Humphries? Bryan Greenlee is Al Nolen?
 

Our downfall this year was our poor play in non conference. With most people having played this whole season, we will win more non conference games next season. But, will we win as many B1G games? Maybe not. We need some competent transfers.
 

bc2211 said:
You are right from a logical perspective.

For me it comes down to players growing up and making fewer mistakes, more than a improvement of skill and talent. If our guys do that and become more efficient, it doesn’t matter as much what other teams are doing. Lump that in with “improvement” if you will, but I don’t think talent is the issue (Hole left by Oturu notwithstanding).
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I think being more skilled and more efficient are interrelated . Avery close friend of mine that is a highly successful coach does his end of season exit evals on players and gives precise direction on what parts of a players game needs work in the offseason so they can find ways to play to strength and awny from weakness. He sees the offseason as a time for precise skill development because it is then that the player can make his biggest jump on individual skills . if you come back in the fall and can not crush the old you in a game of one bon one you failed. He focuses on team when practice starts because of time limitations so now is the time to improve in skills. They come back knowing that 60% of practice and game prep will be defense, 20 % will be situational time issues, in and out of bounds, and 20% offense. You recruit to it, the love of getting better, the love of the work, the joy of competing. Never get tired of success, never lose because of conditioning.
 




John Galt said:
What other great insights do you have? Let me guess, Alihan Demir was Kris Humphries? Bryan Greenlee is Al Nolen?
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If Bryan Greenlee is Al Nolen, he and Michael Jackson have the same dermatologist.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
If the Gophers get a big-time transfer Post, they can be good.

that may be true, but you could say the same thing about any team in any sport.

if the Vikings get a great player with their 1st-round draft pick, they can be a Super Bowl contender.

if the Gopher FB team lands a 5* recruit, they can win the B1G title.

If the Timberwolves............no, forget that one.
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BFD really? Go ahead and trivialize every comment or suggestion, it make for a very dull conversation.
 



I am not dismissing the possibility that players can improve.

I just didn't see enough of Freeman this year to have any idea of what his ceiling might be. I need to see him playing with the first team against another school's first team. a few minutes of garbage time tells me nothing.

Freeman has some size. If he can give the Gophers 15-20 minutes a game next year, and come up with 5 points and 4 reb a game, I think that would be a good step forward. But - that does not come close to replacing the production they are losing with Oturu. I don't expect anything from Curry. with his history, if he can run up and down the court, great. If he can provide any scoring and rebounding, better.

but bottom line, for the Gophers to be as good or better than this year, Ihnen needs to take a big step forward, Gabe needs to find his shooting touch, Williams needs to get a lot better, and Mashburn has to be able to run the point for at least 10 minutes a game so they don't kill Carr. That's a lot of if's.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I am not dismissing the possibility that players can improve.

I just didn't see enough of Freeman this year to have any idea of what his ceiling might be. I need to see him playing with the first team against another school's first team. a few minutes of garbage time tells me nothing.

Freeman has some size. If he can give the Gophers 15-20 minutes a game next year, and come up with 5 points and 4 reb a game, I think that would be a good step forward. But - that does not come close to replacing the production they are losing with Oturu. I don't expect anything from Curry. with his history, if he can run up and down the court, great. If he can provide any scoring and rebounding, better.

but bottom line, for the Gophers to be as good or better than this year, Ihnen needs to take a big step forward, Gabe needs to find his shooting touch, Williams needs to get a lot better, and Mashburn has to be able to run the point for at least 10 minutes a game so they don't kill Carr. That's a lot of if's.
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They need more ifs than that. Need improvement out of everyone, Curry to contribute, Mashburn to be an impact kid, Mitchell to surprise, a couple really good spring guys and for everything to fit together. It can happen...
 

Way too many things would have to go right next season for a move by the Gophers to the middle of the pack in the B1G. Can that happen? Sure it could but it’s unlikely.
 

bga1 said:
They need more ifs than that. Need improvement out of everyone, Curry to contribute, Mashburn to be an impact kid, Mitchell to surprise, a couple really good spring guys and for everything to fit together. It can happen...
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It can but it would not be prudent or reasonable to do so. I am hoping but not confident.
 

builtbadgers said:
I think being more skilled and more efficient are interrelated . Avery close friend of mine that is a highly successful coach does his end of season exit evals on players and gives precise direction on what parts of a players game needs work in the offseason so they can find ways to play to strength and awny from weakness. He sees the offseason as a time for precise skill development because it is then that the player can make his biggest jump on individual skills . if you come back in the fall and can not crush the old you in a game of one bon one you failed. He focuses on team when practice starts because of time limitations so now is the time to improve in skills. They come back knowing that 60% of practice and game prep will be defense, 20 % will be situational time issues, in and out of bounds, and 20% offense. You recruit to it, the love of getting better, the love of the work, the joy of competing. Never get tired of success, never lose because of conditioning.
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Interesting to hear the break down on how practice time may be spent. Thanks for sharing. Didn’t realize so little on offense.

I see efficiency as decision making with a splash of skill. An “untalented” or “unskilled” player can add a lot of value by simply never making a bad decision. If you know and capitalize on your particular skill set (what specific movements and shots have you practiced relentlessly), understand what you bring to the line up on the court (are you the best/worst shooter, do you have fouls to give), and have an appreciation for when risks are acceptable (does the game greatly change if you play outside of your typically practice skill at this particular moment) - then you are at the very least an effective role player worthy of minutes. Weve had a mixed bag of this lately IMO.

To your point though, I think our players have shown the precise complimentary skills work that has me confident for future development. some examples:

1) Oturu added a gather/hesitation to his low post game that changed his ability to finish in traffic by January his freshman year.
2) Gabe added an effective pump fake and shot off a single dribble midway through his freshman year. Early in the season he looked concerned off those hard close outs.
3) ihnen had limited minutes, but in the last few games it was evident he had been working on attacking the close out aggressively.

while we’ve seen this growth, there are still too many players not adhering to this style of efficiently playing within skill sets. I hate to call out specific guys, but Demir stands out and someone that tried to do too much at critical points in the game... points in the game when the ball needs to be in the best players’ hands. You watch any Badger game in the last 20 years, and you will rarely find their worst offensive option making decisive plays within the last three minutes. Unfortunately, our game logs from this year tell a very different tale.
 

jblass said:
I think some people are underestimating the impact Freeman may have on the team next year. He is currently 6-10 240 and may still be growing. He could be a real force in the paint. He has a nice shooting touch and was 7-9 from the free-throw line (77.8%). I watched him closely during pre-game warm-ups and was impressed by his shooting touch beyond the arc. Having said that I know he looked a little raw on the court last season. He does look like he has ability though and I am sure the coaches are working hard with him on his ball handling and offensive skills around the basket. Another year can make quite a difference in some kids.
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He is the one guy I wished would have got more minutes last season (and to some extent Ihnen as well). Both could have taken some of Demir’s minutes and it would not have hurt the result. Demir had a few nice games, but more stinkers. I’m also hopeful that Freeman can be a solid piece next year.
 

That practice time is stressed by several fantastic coaches. They put team defense high up the priority because you can play great defense all the time. Poor shooting can sabotage a otherwise good offensive night. Good shooting can make you look great but it comes and goes where defense can be a constant. The off season is such a critical time to do your individual skills work. Most coaches know the same stuff but few have the eye to recruit to a specific plan ,make critical adjustments along the way and then off course have that something special teaching skill. It is just like a great teacher so many of you have had, what made them stand above the rest that knew the same material ? What makes a coach and players love each other ? It is very difficult to be great at any profession, only a few stand above. I just can not tell you how obvious it is when you see a practice or more the difference between someone truly gifted and the rest. Just like the best leaders in any field.
 

It's so easy to say 'hitting on a transfer would put the U in the middle of the pack' without looking at how good the Big 10 is going to be again.

The league might not be as ridiculous as it was this past year, but it's not going to be a whole lot worse.

Unless people think Oturu just put up empty numbers - which I don't think people think. He put up 20 and 11 and we are talking about replacing him with Sam Freeman (11 points and 11 rebounds in his freshman season) and hopefully a grad transfer who was sort of productive at LMU or Quinnipiac.

Jarvis Omersa was the only guy who was a semi-regular that is returning who shot better than 42 percent from the field. None of our returning perimeter players shot better than 40 percent from the field. That's not good.

If Marcus believes the team is a 'big-time' transfer away from being in the middle of the pack in the Big 10, he's either an even bigger homer than I currently believe him to be (which is a large one), out of touch with what defines 'big-time transfer' or he's delusional about how good the rest of the league will be again next season.
 

Biggsohnasty said:
It's so easy to say 'hitting on a transfer would put the U in the middle of the pack' without looking at how good the Big 10 is going to be again.

The league might not be as ridiculous as it was this past year, but it's not going to be a whole lot worse.

Unless people think Oturu just put up empty numbers - which I don't think people think. He put up 20 and 11 and we are talking about replacing him with Sam Freeman (11 points and 11 rebounds in his freshman season) and hopefully a grad transfer who was sort of productive at LMU or Quinnipiac.

Jarvis Omersa was the only guy who was a semi-regular that is returning who shot better than 42 percent from the field. None of our returning perimeter players shot better than 40 percent from the field. That's not good.

If Marcus believes the team is a 'big-time' transfer away from being in the middle of the pack in the Big 10, he's either an even bigger homer than I currently believe him to be (which is a large one), out of touch with what defines 'big-time transfer' or he's delusional about how good the rest of the league will be again next season.
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I get your point and see your rationales, but Everybody (Besides Wisconsin) is losing big pieces though. That’s college basketball even more so in today’s game. Heard Stan Johnson (new LMU coach) mention it about being “one year contracts” more so than 4 years. Teams need to be reinvented every year. What this upcoming team will have coming back is all it’s backcourt (as of right now) and that’s a positive. Loses a lot of production from Oturo which will need to be replaced, but that happens with more than one. Maryland has to replace a Smith and a Owen, Iowa has to replace Garza, Mich State has to replace Winston and Simpson. There are teams that need to fill and replace just as much if not more than we do.
 

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