Lineups We Should Test Out - what's the downside?

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Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Here is the upcoming schedule:
11/30 Home against New Orleans - Kenpom 280 (certified creampuff)
12/3 at Ohio State (Kenpom 25)
12/6 Home against Nebraska (Kenpom 46)
12/9 Home against Florida Gulf Coast (Kenpom 232 creampuff territory)
12/12 Home against IUPUI (Kenpom 343 - *362 is bottom of the NCAA for reference)
12/21 Home against Ball State (Kenpom 227 creampuff territory)
12/29 Home against Maine (Kenpom 263 certified creampuff)
1/4 Home against Michigan (Kenpom 54 *lost to Long Beach State by 8 @ home, Memphis on Neutral, and Texas Tech by 16 Neutral (could be a winnable game)
1/7 Home against Maryland (Kenpom 57 *lost @ home to Davidson, @ UAB, @Villanova (crushed) - could be winnable)

I will preface this by saying that I don't believe Ben needs to label the players with positions, he needs the best combo of 5 players on the floor, not 5 positions on the floor, hence the below:

Lineup 1:
Christie --> Hawkins
Mitchell --> Carrington (but he is not allowed to shoot treys as he is shooting 15% on the year which makes me want to vomit *and it would be for very limited minutes)
JoJ
Garcia
Payne

Jack Wilson can spell the bigs if we are playing a team with true beef. But in reality, with TV timeouts every 4 minutes, these guys should be able to play more minutes (granted I understand Payne has been on a minutes restriction until recently). But Jack should be able to give up to 6 minutes a night, much like the 7'2" guy on San Fran did last night.

Lineup 2 - Small Ball:
Hawkins
Mitchell
Christie
JoJ
Garcia

Also, for the sake of seeing what we have in Fox (which I believe is very little), we should see what he can actually do. Let him start against a FGCU in a lineup like:
-Hawkins
Mitchell
Christie
Fox
Garcia

The goal should be to get Fox going and see if he can do anything besides set a few picks and maybe get 1 open dunk. If he can't do more than that, he shouldn't be taking minutes of the younger players who haven't had multiple knee surgeries, and have more upside.
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
What does carrington do for you?
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I'm with SS and it should be:

Mitchell
Carrington
Christie
Garcia
Payne

Carrington does very little for me, but I don't like anyone else to start over him. JoJ doesn't have a position, and Mitchell/Hawkins shouldn't be starting together. Ihnen/Fox aren't starters either.
 






I am not seeing what others are with Mitchell. He hit a couple of three's (something Carrington can't) but he is a mess out there imo.
 




This is mine:

Mitchell
Christie
Ihnen
Garcia
Payne

Shooters around Payne, play a 3-2 zone with Ihnen's length at the top. When you sub out Payne, bring in JOJ. When you sub out Mitchell bring in Hawkins. Ride with those 7 (it's the best we got IMO). Play Carrington like 8-10 minutes, Fox like 3-5 minutes and that's it.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
I wanna see a starting line up of our walk-ons and last 3 bench players.... It literally can't be any worse than what we are seeing
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Payne, Garcia and draw the other 3 out of a hat. It's how Gardy used to set lineups on day games after night games and it worked often.
 

tikited said:
I am not seeing what others are with Mitchell. He hit a couple of three's (something Carrington can't) but he is a mess out there imo.
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Mitchell gets involved and plays with a little fire. He made some bad decisions with the ball last night though.
 



F*ck it. Let Christie run the point, maybe he can figure it out. Then give me Carrington, JOJ, Garcia, Payne. Hawkins and Mitchell are too small, but we're gonna need them to light it up from 3 at some point if we want a conference win. Also need more Jack Wilson, just because.
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
F*ck it. Let Christie run the point, maybe he can figure it out. Then give me Carrington, JOJ, Garcia, Payne. Hawkins and Mitchell are too small, but we're gonna need them to light it up from 3 at some point if we want a conference win. Also need more Jack Wilson, just because.
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#FREEJACKWILSON
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
F*ck it. Let Christie run the point, maybe he can figure it out. Then give me Carrington, JOJ, Garcia, Payne. Hawkins and Mitchell are too small, but we're gonna need them to light it up from 3 at some point if we want a conference win. Also need more Jack Wilson, just because.
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Really- that's their only shot. I would go with Carrington, Mitchell and Christie so that Christie has help. Then Payne and Garcia. Every time the team shows a lack of energy, Fox should be in for a few minutes. That should be his role- spark plug warrior.
 

bga1 said:
Really- that's their only shot. I would go with Carrington, Mitchell and Christie so that Christie has help. Then Payne and Garcia. Every time the team shows a lack of energy, Fox should be in for a few minutes. That should be his role- spark plug warrior.
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What spark has he provided against a team not ranked below 240? The fact that he is unwilling to shoot really hurts the team. Defenses don’t even have to guard him more than 6 feet from the hoop.
 

bga1 said:
Really- that's their only shot. I would go with Carrington, Mitchell and Christie so that Christie has help. Then Payne and Garcia. Every time the team shows a lack of energy, Fox should be in for a few minutes. That should be his role- spark plug warrior.
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If it wasn't for the turnovers I like Christie at point to set up the offense but Hawkins/Mitchell in to run fast break opportunities. Also like J.O.J with Mitchell and Hawkins because they seem to always be looking for the alley oop, but again, turnovers.
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
If it wasn't for the turnovers I like Christie at point to set up the offense but Hawkins/Mitchell in to run fast break opportunities. Also like J.O.J with Mitchell and Hawkins because they seem to always be looking for the alley oop, but again, turnovers.
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What kills me with Hawkins is the issues that he has against bigger guards. He gets beaten easily on D. Any opposing coach, if he sees we are switching on defense can get Hawkins stuck playing a 6-4 or 6-5 guy and it's over. He's not just short, he is little. I think that the turnover thing can get cured and he can become good on the offensive end- you just have to hide him on defense. Think of Purdue or Michigan State and how they are going to work him over.
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
F*ck it. Let Christie run the point, maybe he can figure it out. Then give me Carrington, JOJ, Garcia, Payne. Hawkins and Mitchell are too small, but we're gonna need them to light it up from 3 at some point if we want a conference win. Also need more Jack Wilson, just because.
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Do you realize you don't win anything for tanking in college sports?

The guy has been beyond awful his entire career and you want to take minutes from Payne, Garcia, Ihnen, or Fox to give it to him?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Do you realize you don't win anything for tanking in college sports?

The guy has been beyond awful his entire career and you want to take minutes from Payne, Garcia, Ihnen, or Fox to give it to him?
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Just to piss you off Todd
 


bga1 said:
What kills me with Hawkins is the issues that he has against bigger guards. He gets beaten easily on D. Any opposing coach, if he sees we are switching on defense can get Hawkins stuck playing a 6-4 or 6-5 guy and it's over. He's not just short, he is little. I think that the turnover thing can get cured and he can become good on the offensive end- you just have to hide him on defense. Think of Purdue or Michigan State and how they are going to work him over.
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He could be a real ankle biter on Zach Edey.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Do you realize you don't win anything for tanking in college sports?

The guy has been beyond awful his entire career and you want to take minutes from Payne, Garcia, Ihnen, or Fox to give it to him?
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Ihnen these last few games is a waste of minutes on the court; can’t guard, can’t rebound, 0% 3pt shooting, can’t drive past actual defenders.

Fox, very similar to Ihnen. His performance against the Dons was almost laughable. Went he went down low, he got blocked, went he got the ball around the perimeter, the defense sagged so far off that it was a net zero for our offense as he can’t shoot.

I’d personally rather see Payne and Garcia full time. Garcia at the 4, Payne at the 5. When Payne subs out, steal some minutes with Wilson. He’s big and looks like he can bang. We would only need about 6 minutes with tv timeouts. When Garcia subs out, go with JOJ, he showed last year he can bang (remember when he guarded Edey for a while!).

Ihnen and Fox should be deep on the bench. I believe CBJ plays them as a loyalty for sticking with the program after two lost years due to blown up knees. But CBJ has yet to realize that by playing them, he’s killing the program even more.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Ihnen these last few games is a waste of minutes on the court; can’t guard, can’t rebound, 0% 3pt shooting, can’t drive past actual defenders.

Fox, very similar to Ihnen. His performance against the Dons was almost laughable. Went he went down low, he got blocked, went he got the ball around the perimeter, the defense sagged so far off that it was a net zero for our offense as he can’t shoot.

I’d personally rather see Payne and Garcia full time. Garcia at the 4, Payne at the 5. When Payne subs out, steal some minutes with Wilson. He’s big and looks like he can bang. We would only need about 6 minutes with tv timeouts. When Garcia subs out, go with JOJ, he showed last year he can bang (remember when he guarded Edey for a while!).

Ihnen and Fox should be deep on the bench. I believe CBJ plays them as a loyalty for sticking with the program after two lost years due to blown up knees. But CBJ has yet to realize that by playing them, he’s killing the program even more
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I'd rather give those 6 minutes to Ihnen, Fox, JOJ, Ramberg, or just about anyone other than Wilson.

I have never seen a statistically worse player than Wilson. I would assume he is probably not as bad as his numbers because that would be almost impossible.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'd rather give those 6 minutes to Ihnen, Fox, JOJ, Ramberg, or just about anyone other than Wilson.

I have never seen a statistically worse player than Wilson. I would assume he is probably not as bad as his numbers because that would be almost impossible.
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He's played 14 minutes this year scored a basket and has 3 assists. You might be involved in a little hyperbole there Bob.
 

bga1 said:
He's played 14 minutes this year scored a basket and has 3 assists. You might be involved in a little hyperbole there Bob.
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3 assists in 14 minutes is pretty good. Maybe he should be the PG....Really commit to position-less basketball.
 

Gophers7633 said:
This is mine:

Mitchell
Christie
Ihnen
Garcia
Payne

Shooters around Payne, play a 3-2 zone with Ihnen's length at the top. When you sub out Payne, bring in JOJ. When you sub out Mitchell bring in Hawkins. Ride with those 7 (it's the best we got IMO). Play Carrington like 8-10 minutes, Fox like 3-5 minutes and that's it.
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Good lord in any scenairo that Ihlen is playing more than 5 minutes is awful in my mind. At least carrington will rebound. Ihlen has averaged 23 minutes a game his last 3 games he is shooting 3-16 has 10 rebounds 2 blocks. He is awful on defense. Feel bad for the kid with the injuries he is not a big ten player. His problem from day 1 has been he is a big size that is afraid of contact and is to slow and not a good enough shooter to play wing. Ihlen has never done anything (outside of UTSA) to make me believe he is a real basketball player. Numbers dont lie he is awful, and even worse on defense.

I think unfortunately the best way to win is to play the only 3 ball handlers you have and hope with 3 guys that can handle the one with the worst defensive player guarding them brings it up. If the other teams PG guards Hawkins have Christie bring it up and intiate. When you make the decision to recruit a 4/turnover game guy you saddle yourself. Preference is Christie(hopefully draws a 6'6 or 6'7 SF) Mitchell, Hawkins, Carrington in terms of primary ballhandler. But mix and match.

1-2-3
Mitchell-30
Hawkins-30
Christie-30
Carrington-25
JOJ-5 at the Wing

Big roatation
Garcia-35
Payne-25 (assuming foul trouble limits him to around 25 but play him 30 if out of foul trouble)
JOJ-20 (will have to play tough maybe Fox can steal a few here as well)

There is no reason in the world to play Ihlen he is not it. Who is he going to guard, even against a bubble team like WI? Wahl that is a bucket all day on the block. Storr he will go outside and right around him.
 
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rivergopher said:
Good lord in any scenairo that Ihlen is playing more than 5 minutes is awful in my mind. At least carrington will rebound. Ihlen has averaged 23 minutes a game his last 3 games he is shooting 3-16 has 10 rebounds 2 blocks. He is awful on defense. Feel bad for the kid with the injuries he is not a big ten player. His problem from day 1 has been he is a big size that is afraid of contact and is to slow and not a good enough shooter to play wing. Ihlen has never done anything (outside of UTSA) to make me believe he is a real basketball player. Numbers dont lie he is awful, and even worse on defense.

I think unfortunately the best way to win is to play the only 3 ball handlers you have and hope with 3 guys that can handle the one with the worst defensive player guarding them brings it up. If the other teams PG guards Hawkins have Christie bring it up and intiate. When you make the decision to recruit a 4/turnover game guy you saddle yourself. Preference is Christie(hopefully draws a 6'6 or 6'7 SF) Mitchell, Hawkins, Carrington in terms of primary ballhandler. But mix and match.

1-2-3
Mitchell-30
Hawkins-30
Christie-30
Carrington-25
JOJ-5 at the Wing

Big roatation
Garcia-35
Payne-25 (assuming foul trouble limits him to around 25 but play him 30 if out of foul trouble)
JOJ-20 (will have to play tough maybe Fox can steal a few here as well)

There is no reason in the world to play Ihlen he is not it. Who is he going to guard, even against a bubble team like WI? Wahl that is a bucket all day on the block. Storr he will go outside and right around him.
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Ihnen is trash. Everyone who predicted it last year (myself included was right). He wasn’t good prior to the knee injuries (with the exception being a 4 game run highlighted by a good game against Purdue as a freshman *I believe). Those thinking he *and Fox could came back after two blown up knees and really do anything don’t understand high level basketball. Think of all the players knee injuries have ruined…it’s a mighty long list. And when you name players who have come back, it’s guys who were insane athletes, lost a step, but altered their game and still contributed. They weren’t low level B10 player who got injured then magically turned into the messiah.
 

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