Let's slow down on the Fire PJ Chatter

Donate To GopherHole
kg21 said:
True, but I just don't feel there is anything on this roster to look forward, too.

We are so slow and unathletic.

Nubin is our best defender in a secondary that is a mess. He will be gone.

Linebacker is ho-hum

Our defensive line was shoved all over the place this year. Next year is probably more of the same.

Our offensive line is ok, not great......not sure how that changes.

Our wide receiving core is so weak. What if Jackson left, Holy Shit Balls!

Not sure if the running backs all stay. I hope they do.

Fickell, Beilema and Rhule will make their programs better as they are building.

All these new teams coming in that would put up 40 on this defense like a walk in the park.

I'm usually somewhat optimistic heading into next year. Nothing could be further from the truth for next year.
Click to expand...
Players do get better year over year. I think he has the wrong set of coaches on offense and it shows in the lack of development on all levels.
 

OddStack said:
I agree with your point, but I want to point out to those who might point to Iowa as a reason we should tolerate a down 7th year and not question it that Ferentz had more equity in his first six years.

His 7-5 7th year was after winning the B1G Title 2 times and THREE straight years of finishing the year ranked #8 in the country!
Click to expand...
Very good point! The Gophers haven't capitalized on their strong seasons with a division title such as Iowa, Northwestern and Wisconsin have done.
 

Fleck is here for at least 3 years, unless he chooses to leave in his own. That being said, since he once was an elementary school teacher, he needs to go get new curriculum because his kids aren't learning the lessons with his present curriculum.
 

btowngopher said:
Ah this year. I’m sure there have been some years where some random failed coach did better than guys like Ferentz as well.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, this year, which is the only year he has had.

Northwestern could have gone 0-12 this season and not a soul would have been surprised.
 

wdgold said:
Very good point! The Gophers haven't capitalized on their strong seasons with a division title such as Iowa, Northwestern and Wisconsin have done.
Click to expand...
NW won the west twice in the last six years. They figured out how to win the games needed in those two seasons.
 


btowngopher said:
Cool, am I crazy for wanting to see him do it a few more years before anointing him to be better than someone who has taken two different programs to top 25 finishes?
Click to expand...
No, but it seems a little squirrely that you are too stubborn to say a guy that was thrust into the job unexpectedly last minute after a massive bomb blew up the football program, has not done a great job.
 

FinnGopher said:
Fleck is here for at least 3 years, unless he chooses to leave in his own. That being said, since he once was an elementary school teacher, he needs to go get new curriculum because his kids aren't learning the lessons with his present curriculum.
Click to expand...
He was a teacher for about the amount of time it takes to drink a cup of coffee ;). It's another thing he brings up that feels pretty disingenous, like taking a pay cut to come to the U. If he goes 5-7 and 3-6 in the B1G again next year, I think he gets the hook.
 

I think the opener against a Drake Maye-less Tar Heels will tell us how the season is going to go. We should beat up on Rhode Island and Nevada but it gets tough real quick with a pissed off Iowa team coming into town and the BIG 18 meat grinder starting up with our new west coast friends. Lose to UNC and we will be lucky to get 6 wins
 

Mulligan said:
Congrats! Might be one of the 10 dumbest statements ever on GH.
Click to expand...
The only thing I could muster when I read that was, "Holy shit."

The administration is dictating the football team's style of play.

I'll be in concussion protocol due to the facepalm I did.
 




Dakota2 said:
No, but it seems a little squirrely that you are too stubborn to say a guy that was thrust into the job unexpectedly last minute after a massive bomb blew up the football program, has not done a great job.
Click to expand...
That was never the argument. Of course he has done a great job. You said he has proven to be a better coach than Fleck, I simply argued that he hasn’t accomplished a fraction of what Fleck has.
 

btowngopher said:
That was never the argument. Of course he has done a great job. You said he has proven to be a better coach than Fleck, I simply argued that he hasn’t accomplished a fraction of what Fleck has.
Click to expand...
But you yourself found the magic words in my post ... "this year". I said nothing about a body of work, history's ultimate take, or anything like that. I said he proved this year to be a better coach than Fleck. I am confident that cannot be disputed.
 

btowngopher said:
People keep bringing up the passing game components, but a healthy experienced LB and RB core would be easier fixes and would raise the floor of the program.
Click to expand...
I hate the way Fleck has used our best running backs, Taylor was getting the ball over 20+ carries a game and just ran him into injuries, much like how Ibrahim was used. You cant give the same guy the ball 30 times a game, you just cant.
 



Should TCU fire Dykes after this years 5-7 debacle? Yes, I know PJ is not coming off a national championship loss, but if TCU has another 5-7 year next year?????
 


I'm not privy to discussions, but I wonder if Fleck is operating with a very narrow field of candidates for his assistant coaching positions. He has his methods and particular culture, which I sense is more demanding on a coach than just Xs and Os and instruction. I get a palpable sense that many talented assistant coaches either do not want to come to the U, or are not considered candidates
 

metrolax said:
I'm not privy to discussions, but I wonder if Fleck is operating with a very narrow field of candidates for his assistant coaching positions. He has his methods and particular culture, which I sense is more demanding on a coach than just Xs and Os and instruction. I get a palpable sense that many talented assistant coaches either do not want to come to the U, or are not considered candidates
Click to expand...
Might be the case. I would think he could get a top notch G5 or FCS OC and QB coach with the $$ he has in the pool.
 

metrolax said:
I'm not privy to discussions, but I wonder if Fleck is operating with a very narrow field of candidates for his assistant coaching positions. He has his methods and particular culture, which I sense is more demanding on a coach than just Xs and Os and instruction. I get a palpable sense that many talented assistant coaches either do not want to come to the U, or are not considered candidates
Click to expand...
I think you would be correct.
 

MZBKA1 said:
If we were Wisconsin, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Iowa, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Michigan, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Penn State, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Nebraska, we'd fire Fleck.
But we're Minnesota. And we are just fine with a losing record in year 7 of Fleck's tenure. We're just fine with Fleck having the worst Big 10 recruiting class of 2022. We're just fine knowing that 2024 and 2025 will likely result in even worse records and continued bottom-tier recruiting under Fleck.
And that is why we will continue to lose. It's why we haven't had any type of championship since before most of us were born. Because other Big 10 teams expect more from their teams than we do.
Click to expand...
Had family stuff all weekend so haven’t been in here much. But the comments are as expected.

Ferentz had below .500 records in years 8 and 14.

Alvarez had below .500 records in years 6 and 12.

Your logic is flawed and stupid.
 

theTurning said:
Alvarez won the Rose Bowl in his 4th year and had 3 top-10 finishes in his first decade. I agree PJ should get another year or two but that’s a terrible comparison.
Click to expand...
The original post said nothing about any other successes. It appears he thinks those programs would not tolerate a bad season no matter what.
 

SHGopher said:
Agreed.

This needs to play out a season or two.

Griping is appropriate, even trashing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's what fans do, but the reality is Fleck isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Unless someone finally takes Coyle off our hands, Fleck isn't going anywhere. Not sure posting a winning record figures into the discussions at this point.

No scandals, no worries.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I hate the way Fleck has used our best running backs, Taylor was getting the ball over 20+ carries a game and just ran him into injuries, much like how Ibrahim was used. You cant give the same guy the ball 30 times a game, you just cant.
Click to expand...
Run em till they break. And then they break.

Disappointing coaching strategy.
 

metrolax said:
I'm not privy to discussions, but I wonder if Fleck is operating with a very narrow field of candidates for his assistant coaching positions. He has his methods and particular culture, which I sense is more demanding on a coach than just Xs and Os and instruction. I get a palpable sense that many talented assistant coaches either do not want to come to the U, or are not considered candidates
Click to expand...
I would like to think a lower level coordinator would suck up the culture thing if they're up and coming and want to work themselves into a better position on a different team down the line. I do buy the idea of some guys not being considered due to the damage they could cause to the culture if they came in and acted like it was phoney. Just like the players PJ recruits, he needs complete buy in from his staff otherwise it doesn't resonate across the program and could create problems.
 

"So putting everything into perspective I know it's going to be hard but let's keep a positive mindset that while this year was a set back, better things are coming, brighter days are ahead. Heck even the Timberwolves might finally have turned a corner. With this coming change to everything that has been B1G next year maybe this was another "Zero" year before the new look B1G starts. If we fire off another 2-3 less than .500 seasons in this new look B1G then the drum beat for change can fire up and at that point PJ will be at the 10 year mark similar to Mason's tenure and we can go from there."

I don't think you said anything factually incorrect, though I believe making comparisions to former failed Gopher coaches does little to move the program forward. PJ is 2 games below .500 in B1G play, his "special season" occurred in 2019 which was one year PRIOR to Tom Allen's at Indiana who just got fired today. Wisconsin fired Paul Chryst who had the best record in the B1G West while it existed and Iowa just fired the son of the best coach in their programs history in the middle of a miracle season that they went 10-2. I agree with you that PJ should get another year, but the part of your post I quoted above is where I disagree. If we have 2-3 more years of below .500 seasons, the next coach will be at ground zero with this program again. That means ticket sales, recruiting, and NIL become all that more challenging than they are now. I'd much rather see us be proactive with a move and deal with the possibility of becoming less relevant than we are now than waiting until we're clearly back to a program at the bottom of the conference. Hopefully it doesn't come to that and PJ makes the changes necessary to be much better next year.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Had family stuff all weekend so haven’t been in here much. But the comments are as expected.

Ferentz had below .500 records in years 8 and 14.

Alvarez had below .500 records in years 6 and 12.

Your logic is flawed and stupid.
Click to expand...
Fleck isn't going anywhere.

That said, Ferentz also won two conference titles AND finished ranked 8 in the country three years in a row before have a 6-6 regular season record in year 8, losing the bowl game to finish below .500.

And Alverez won a conference championship/Rose Bowl prior to the season he struggled in, losing to 3 ranked teams (at the time) in Colorado (13), Ohio State (4) and Northwestern (11); Iowa who ended the season ranked 25th, with the lone WTF loss against Purdue (so there is a similarity to our situation this year).

Wisconsin also had two ties that season, one with Stanford (who ended up 4th in the Pac-10), and a real WTF game against Illinois ending in a 3-3 tie* to end the season at 4-5-2, thus being under .500.

Oh, and one of their wins? At Penn State who was ranked #6.

So, yes, coaches have up and down seasons, particularly at struggling programs, like Fleck's infamous chart.

But no, it's not usual for a team to be sitting at 5-3 with one WTF game in the rearview mirror and facing three struggling programs and a probable loss to the #3 team in the country and fail to become bowl eligible. No one on this board or in the country thought MN was the worst team in the B1G west at that point, but we sure did prove we were through our final four games.

That kind of collapse and how utterly inconsistent and pathetic we were in each of those games is what drives people to wonder what point there is to a coach in year seven that has NO IDEA what to do to change his fortunes and cried mercy before the kick-off against Ohio State.

Having said all of that, while you may not agree with the logic of the OP, comparing what happened to Iowa and Wisconsin in year 8 and year 6 to what happened to PJ Fleck in year 7 is similarly flawed and stupid.

Listening to Fleck after the game, he's still putting this on player execution. He hasn't learned a thing and hasn't actually taken responsibility for the state of the program. He hasn't adapted or adjusted to the realities in front of him. He continues to believe his ultraconservative approach is spot on and the only thing holding him back from greatness is the players.

That in year seven:
He recruited.
And failed to keep.
Or develop.
Or even try to change things up at QB when it clearly wasn't working. At some point what does it hurt to at least put in a back-up to change things up? To quote the guy at the stoning in Life of Brian - "How can it get any worse?"

Yes, the transfer portal is a new wrinkle. It's a new wrinkle for every single program in D1. Some have more resources to deal with it, but let's face it, Illinois, Northwestern, and Purdue aren't the haves and we're the have nots.

I guess if anything sitting here, I'm just pissed off that the coach at Northwestern didn't understand this was year zero, so he couldn't pull off a 3 TD comeback in the 4th quarter.

A lot of the frustration the Flecktites are feeling right now, in trying to defend all the stupid shit our head cheer leader says, is that he brings a lot of this on himself.

Winning cures all ills. Losing pathetically puts a target on your back. Fleck isn't going to be fired, nor should he be at this point, but the anger he elicits comes from much of what he says and does. As he often boasts, he's not for everyone. Seasons like this is where he reaps the "benefits" of his attitude and behavior.

Maybe if there was something in this season to suggest hope for the future, like beating a ranked opponent ala Alverez, or finishing sub .500 after a disappointed season and a bowl loss ala Ferentz, there wouldn't be so much vitriol aimed at Fleck. But there is nothing that happened this season for fans to hang their hat on to suggest what happened this year was the aberration vs. 2019 was the aberration. The trend of Bowling Green (2021), Purdue (2022), errupted into Northwestern, Illinois, and Purdue in 2023.

For me, this is the season I expected. I just didn't expect it to unfold the way it did.

But sleep tight in your beds, Flecktites. He has multiple years to right the ship unless Coyle leaves, a scandal erupts off the field, or he evolves from whining about being misunderstood and fans not able to see his greatness this season in press conferences to an ego driven meltdown at a public event ala Mason's final act before getting canned.

*Fun fact I learned just looking at your examples, the Illinois-Wisconsin game that ended 3-3 was the last tie in College football. OT kicked in during that bowl season and has been in place ever since.
 
Last edited:


caliGopher said:
Fleck isn't going anywhere.

That said, Ferentz also won two conference titles AND finished ranked 8 in the country three years in a row before have a 6-6 regular season record in year 8, losing the bowl game to finish below .500.

And Alverez won a conference championship/Rose Bowl prior to the season he struggled in, losing to 3 ranked teams (at the time) in Colorado (13), Ohio State (4) and Northwestern (11); Iowa who ended the season ranked 25th, with the lone WTF loss against Purdue (so there is a similarity to our situation this year).

Wisconsin also had two ties that season, one with Stanford (who ended up 4th in the Pac-10), and a real WTF game against Illinois ending in a 3-3 tie* to end the season at 4-5-2, thus being under .500.

Oh, and one of their wins? At Penn State who was ranked #6.

So, yes, coaches have up and down seasons, particularly at struggling programs, like Fleck's infamous chart.

But no, it's not usual for a team to be sitting at 5-3 with one WTF game in the rearview mirror and facing three struggling programs and a probable loss to the #3 team in the country and fail to become bowl eligible. No one on this board or in the country thought MN was the worst team in the B1G west at that point, but we sure did prove we were through our final four games.

That kind of collapse and how utterly inconsistent and pathetic we were in each of those games is what drives people to wonder what point there is to a coach in year seven that has NO IDEA what to do to change his fortunes and cried mercy before the kick-off against Ohio State.

Having said all of that, while you may not agree with the logic of the OP, comparing what happened to Iowa and Wisconsin in year 8 and year 6 to what happened to PJ Fleck in year 7 is similarly flawed and stupid.

Listening to Fleck after the game, he's still putting this on player execution. He hasn't learned a thing and hasn't actually taken responsibility for the state of the program. He hasn't adapted or adjusted to the realities in front of him. He continues to believe his ultraconservative approach is spot on and the only thing holding him back from greatness is the players.

That in year seven:
He recruited.
And failed to keep.
Or develop.
Or even try to change things up at QB when it clearly wasn't working. At some point what does it hurt to at least put in a back-up to change things up? To quote the guy at the stoning in Life of Brian - "How can it get any worse?"

Yes, the transfer portal is a new wrinkle. It's a new wrinkle for every single program in D1. Some have more resources to deal with it, but let's face it, Illinois, Northwestern, and Purdue aren't the haves and we're the have nots.

I guess if anything sitting here, I'm just pissed off that the coach at Northwestern didn't understand this was year zero, so he couldn't pull off a 3 TD comeback in the 4th quarter.

A lot of the frustration the Flecktites are feeling right now, in trying to defend all the stupid shit our head cheer leader says, is that he brings a lot of this on himself.

Winning cures all ills. Losing pathetically puts a target on your back. Fleck isn't going to be fired, nor should he be at this point, but the anger he elicits comes from much of what he says and does. As he often boasts, he's not for everyone. Seasons like this is where he reaps the "benefits" of his attitude and behavior.

Maybe if there was something in this season to suggest hope for the future, like beating a ranked opponent ala Alverez, or finishing sub .500 after a disappointed season and a bowl loss ala Ferentz, there wouldn't be so much vitriol aimed at Fleck. But there is nothing that happened this season for fans to hang their hat on to suggest what happened this year was the aberration vs. 2019 was the aberration. The trend of Bowling Green (2021), Purdue (2022), errupted into Northwestern, Illinois, and Purdue in 2023.

For me, this is the season I expected. I just didn't expect it to unfold the way it did.

But sleep tight in your beds, Flecktites. He has multiple years to right the ship unless Coyle leaves, a scandal erupts off the field, or he evolves from whining about being misunderstood and fans not able to see his greatness this season in press conferences to an ego driven meltdown at a public event ala Mason's final act before getting canned.

*Fun fact I learned just looking at your examples, the Illinois-Wisconsin game that ended 3-3 was the last tie in College football. OT kicked in during that bowl season and has been in place ever since.
Click to expand...
I think you are massively overthinking what his post and my reply was saying.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
Should TCU fire Dykes after this years 5-7 debacle? Yes, I know PJ is not coming off a national championship loss, but if TCU has another 5-7 year next year?????
Click to expand...
I thought about this same thing. In TCU's case, QB play was a huge issue, similar to the Gophers. And interesting that SMU, where Dykes bolted for TCU, just extended Rhett Lashlee after a really good year. Stating the obvious, you cannot win without a quality QB.
 

Hey, so there’s a head coach currently available who beat Iowa 9 times and Wisconsin at least 5 times in the last 17 years, as much as all the Gophers coaches combined in the last 30 years. And did it with lower ranked recruiting classes. Anyone?
 

Catechol said:
Hey, so there’s a head coach currently available who beat Iowa 9 times and Wisconsin at least 5 times in the last 17 years, as much as all the Gophers coaches combined in the last 30 years. And did it with lower ranked recruiting classes. Anyone?
Click to expand...
Pat Fitzgerald? Too bad this administration wouldn't dare hire someone with even a smidge of controversy. They wouldn't hire Mike Leach when they hired Kill, despite Leach being by far the best option at the time.

Hell bring in Urban Meyer or Art Briles, or trot out 86 year old Barry Switzer. I'm literally fine with anything they do to win games.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom