Lack of Talent, Coaching Changes Have Huge Impact

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Honyocker

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The Gophers were kicked all over the field today, and that is no exaggeration. Look at the game stats.

OK, the Gophers have had a couple good recruiting classes, but this team is still talent poor. Look at the sad state of the offensive line for starters, or our pathetic safties on defense, or the defensive ends who did not even show up for the game....yes, and then there is Weber, the most overrated QB in the B10. The musical chairs of coordinators/systems/coaches has a much larger effect on this team than anyone has acknowledged. It shows up in execution...mistakes, lack of confidence and penalities.

And guess what, fans. next year will be worst than this year...no Decker, stud linebackers graduate, starting defensive tackles graduate....and on and on it goes.

We will not know how good Brewster is until his first real recruiting class (Feb. 2008) is in their senior season (Fall 2011). If Gophers go 6-6 this year and next with their tougher schedules, well, I will be satisfied. I know that is hard for some to accept, but it is realistic.

But then, starting in the Fall of 2011, we need to start winning at a much higher clip or Brewster goes.
 

Stud linebackers? A couple good games in 4 years does not make them studs? James Laurenitis was a stud. Chad Greenway was a stud. The current LB's are nowhere near stud status. They're very average D-I football players.
 

They Are Studs on This Undermanned Team..

Art Vandelay said:
Stud linebackers? A couple good games in 4 years does not make them studs? James Laurenitis was a stud. Chad Greenway was a stud. The current LB's are nowhere near stud status. They're very average D-I football players.
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Triplett is a stud. Decker is a stud. Troy is a stud special teams player. On this team, the LB group is as stud as it gets, maybe the WR group as well. Granted, that is not saying much on this undermanned team. Just goes to show you the lack of talent on the team. That is all I am saying. Not saying they are THE stud group in the B10 by any means.
 

I have been trying to make this point from week 1 that the talent level in key areas is lacking and I was told by some on this board that I am a fool that this Gopher team is loaded with talent.

there are some talented individual players but the overall talent is not there. Now I hear about all these 27 seniors graduating. These seniors were part of a recruiting class that was one of the worst in the B10. Brewster is recruiting some depth and more talent overall then the previous regime and he this year will be his 3rd full recrutiing class. Brewster needs a least 4 full years before looking to fire him.

though it wasn't shown against the Badgers I do like at least an attempt to recruit and update the talent on the defensive side of the ball that wasn't there previsouly.
 

It is possible that Brewster is doing a great coaching job with less than average talent. Was the talent greater than we thought, or has the staff got them playing to the best of their capabilities. No body was in love with these starters just two years ago. Now all of a sudden we're under achieving with a talented senior defense and the program is going to hell when all the talent leaves. Yet everytime one of these talented underclassmen hits the field we ooh an ahh about how good they look.

We may have a step back because of the loss of experience, but I have a feeling in a short time we'll be looking at the most talented defense we've seen in a very long time at the U of minny.
 


There's no doubt that expectations were unrealistic among many on this site, I've been in enough pointless argumets to verify that. At the same time, it's a fan website so what else could one expect.

I disagree that this loss was that harsh. We had a chance to win, we could have opened it up early, there were plenty of opportunities. At the end of the day, Wisconsin has a better team than us this year. I thought we were going to lose beforehand, and was surprised we were considered favorites.

This is a game that a top 25 team would have won, which we simply aren't. Those that expected that this year can deal with that in their own way, but I don't view this game as much of a setback because I never bought into a lot of the hype that people were spreading.

The program can still build, but Rome wasn't build in a day, and sometimes things have to go backward before they go forward.

I still think we finish 4-3 and end up 7-5. The Michigan State game is probably the biggest question mark in my mind.
 

scools12 said:
I have been trying to make this point from week 1 that the talent level in key areas is lacking and I was told by some on this board that I am a fool that this Gopher team is loaded with talent.

there are some talented individual players but the overall talent is not there. Now I hear about all these 27 seniors graduating. These seniors were part of a recruiting class that was one of the worst in the B10. Brewster is recruiting some depth and more talent overall then the previous regime and he this year will be his 3rd full recrutiing class. Brewster needs a least 4 full years before looking to fire him.

though it wasn't shown against the Badgers I do like at least an attempt to recruit and update the talent on the defensive side of the ball that wasn't there previsouly.
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+1
 

I didn't see the blow out some are alluding to. I think that's a classic expample of mis-judging a game based on stats. We out played Wisconsin in the first half. They were lucky to be only down by three. The story of the game was TOP in the third quarter which was more about our offensive failures than the very large and talented Clay.
 

We don't have overwhelming talent on either side of the ball but there was enough to beat wisky yesterday.

Changing coordinators on an annual or semi-annual basis has not helped overall. But I don't the new coordinators are the cause of the penalties. It seems like we've had a lot of penalties the last three years, regardless of who the coordinators are. You'd think it would be an easy thing to correct. It would also help us stop killing our drives while extending our opponent's.
 



this game

was horribly discouraging and shows we're still a bottom feeder in the B10, notice that in 5 B10 games only one homer (MSU) won. 6-6 this season is supremely unlikely, maybe 5-7, and thats if the coaches pull off a miracle and drag this team, that walked off the field whipped and beaten, up enough try to win another game instead of trying not to lose, as they did against the Badgers, at least give Gray a chance to start and toss the ball before the season is totally lost, Weber's passes were all over and he looked lost even when not under pressure
 

Honyocker said:
The Gophers were kicked all over the field today, and that is no exaggeration. Look at the game stats.

OK, the Gophers have had a couple good recruiting classes, but this team is still talent poor. Look at the sad state of the offensive line for starters, or our pathetic safties on defense, or the defensive ends who did not even show up for the game....yes, and then there is Weber, the most overrated QB in the B10. The musical chairs of coordinators/systems/coaches has a much larger effect on this team than anyone has acknowledged. It shows up in execution...mistakes, lack of confidence and penalities.

And guess what, fans. next year will be worst than this year...no Decker, stud linebackers graduate, starting defensive tackles graduate....and on and on it goes.

We will not know how good Brewster is until his first real recruiting class (Feb. 2008) is in their senior season (Fall 2011). If Gophers go 6-6 this year and next with their tougher schedules, well, I will be satisfied. I know that is hard for some to accept, but it is realistic.

But then, starting in the Fall of 2011, we need to start winning at a much higher clip or Brewster goes.
Click to expand...

With the exception of the game against the Badgers we have played the overwhelming majority of every game with a safety in the box. That leaves one safety in the middle of the field and no over the top help for one of the CB’s. For some reason you think the deep safety should be able to read the defense and then get 25yds to the sideline and contain a RB? The secondary has been heavily involved in run support and thin in pass coverage. Whose fault is this? No ones; we are not strong enough in the front seven to play these teams in a base defense; we have had to play eight in the box.

The truth is the secondary has been one of the strong points of this team. As a unit they have given up I believe only 4 td’s on the year while playing with one of the secondary members in the box playing the run. The secondary has also accounted for quite a few tackles.

Adam Weber is one of the better Qb’s in college football. I know some may hate to believe it but it’s true. This will be confirmed when he is drafted into the NFL and makes a roster. Too bad he can’t get the love from his own supposed fans. Speaking of which, how is it possible the Badger fans out numbered the gopher fans 10-1 when the players left the stadium? I guess they actually LIKE their team. Security had to put a rope up to keep a path for the badger football team so they could get to the bus. The Gophers? They came out to an almost empty area with 20-30 fans waiting, no security and no rope. The Badgers had a few hundred. It was embarrassing.

Back to Adam, Is he perfect? No. Does he have a RB behind him rushing for a couple of hundred yards? For whatever reason no. Adam and Decker are our offense and overall Adam is playing pretty damn good.

Honyocker from your post it's obvious you care about the Gophers, you just don't know much about football so maybe you shouldn't be so loud with your opinions.
 

Honyocker is Right...

Sportsfan24 said:
With the exception of the game against the Badgers we have played the overwhelming majority of every game with a safety in the box. That leaves one safety in the middle of the field and no over the top help for one of the CB’s. For some reason you think the deep safety should be able to read the defense and then get 25yds to the sideline and contain a RB? The secondary has been heavily involved in run support and thin in pass coverage. Whose fault is this? No ones; we are not strong enough in the front seven to play these teams in a base defense; we have had to play eight in the box.

The truth is the secondary has been one of the strong points of this team. As a unit they have given up I believe only 4 td’s on the year while playing with one of the secondary members in the box playing the run. The secondary has also accounted for quite a few tackles.

Adam Weber is one of the better Qb’s in college football. I know some may hate to believe it but it’s true. This will be confirmed when he is drafted into the NFL and makes a roster. Too bad he can’t get the love from his own supposed fans. Speaking of which, how is it possible the Badger fans out numbered the gopher fans 10-1 when the players left the stadium? I guess they actually LIKE their team. Security had to put a rope up to keep a path for the badger football team so they could get to the bus. The Gophers? They came out to an almost empty area with 20-30 fans waiting, no security and no rope. The Badgers had a few hundred. It was embarrassing.

Back to Adam, Is he perfect? No. Does he have a RB behind him rushing for a couple of hundred yards? For whatever reason no. Adam and Decker are our offense and overall Adam is playing pretty damn good.

Honyocker from your post it's obvious you care about the Gophers, you just don't know much about football so maybe you shouldn't be so loud with your opinions.
Click to expand...


Honyocker is lot closer to reality that you are, Sportsfan24. Your comments are riddled with so many complete errors, I don't know where to start. What game were you watching?
 




Sportsfan24 said:
With the exception of the game against the Badgers we have played the overwhelming majority of every game with a safety in the box. That leaves one safety in the middle of the field and no over the top help for one of the CB’s. For some reason you think the deep safety should be able to read the defense and then get 25yds to the sideline and contain a RB? The secondary has been heavily involved in run support and thin in pass coverage. Whose fault is this? No ones; we are not strong enough in the front seven to play these teams in a base defense; we have had to play eight in the box.

The truth is the secondary has been one of the strong points of this team. As a unit they have given up I believe only 4 td’s on the year while playing with one of the secondary members in the box playing the run. The secondary has also accounted for quite a few tackles.

Adam Weber is one of the better Qb’s in college football. I know some may hate to believe it but it’s true. This will be confirmed when he is drafted into the NFL and makes a roster. Too bad he can’t get the love from his own supposed fans. Speaking of which, how is it possible the Badger fans out numbered the gopher fans 10-1 when the players left the stadium? I guess they actually LIKE their team. Security had to put a rope up to keep a path for the badger football team so they could get to the bus. The Gophers? They came out to an almost empty area with 20-30 fans waiting, no security and no rope. The Badgers had a few hundred. It was embarrassing.

Back to Adam, Is he perfect? No. Does he have a RB behind him rushing for a couple of hundred yards? For whatever reason no. Adam and Decker are our offense and overall Adam is playing pretty damn good.

Honyocker from your post it's obvious you care about the Gophers, you just don't know much about football so maybe you shouldn't be so loud with your opinions.
Click to expand...

I like Weber and all but he is not one of the best QB's in college football and his arm strength is no where near enough to seriously challenge in the NFL. Look at all his deep throws where the receivers have to slow down or come back for the ball because he does not have the arm strength to hit them in stride.
 

BrewsterBooster said:
Honyocker is lot closer to reality that you are, Sportsfan24. Your comments are riddled with so many complete errors, I don't know where to start. What game were you watching?
Click to expand...

Why don't you at least start? I'm wrong? Tell me where?
 

Schnoodler said:
I didn't see the blow out some are alluding to. I think that's a classic expample of mis-judging a game based on stats. We out played Wisconsin in the first half. They were lucky to be only down by three. The story of the game was TOP in the third quarter which was more about our offensive failures than the very large and talented Clay.
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Did the inability of the Gophers to stop Clay have antything to do with the 23-7 minute advantage in TOP that the Badgers had in the second half? Or was it simply the inability of the Gophers to move the ball?

I guess the obvious question is if it had nothing to do with Clay and the offensive line, why didn't the Gophers just stop them?

If you like getting dominated at the line of scrimmage and out rushed 295-57, I guess we like different kinds of football.

I understand you hate Wisconsin and don't want to give them credit for anything and that is fine. Why don't you ask the coaches if Clay and the offensive line had anything to do with how the second half went.

One more thing. When the Gophers returned the fumble for the TD, had all the momentum in the world and were suddenly in a 3 point game with 6 minutes left, how did that next drive for the Badgers go?
 

GVBadger said:
Did the inability of the Gophers to stop Clay have antything to do with the 23-7 minute advantage in TOP that the Badgers had in the second half? Or was it simply the inability of the Gophers to move the ball?

I guess the obvious question is if it had nothing to do with Clay and the offensive line, why didn't the Gophers just stop them?

If you like getting dominated at the line of scrimmage and out rushed 295-57, I guess we like different kinds of football.

I understand you hate Wisconsin and don't want to give them credit for anything and that is fine. Why don't you ask the coaches if Clay and the offensive line had anything to do with how the second half went.

One more thing. When the Gophers returned the fumble for the TD, had all the momentum in the world and were suddenly in a 3 point game with 6 minutes left, how did that next drive for the Badgers go?
Click to expand...

The Badgers played a hard fought game and won. To your last question, the Badgers where in the middle of a long phyiscal drive when we got the turnover. In hine site it may have been better if we had not scored on the turnover because the defense only got two plays off (extra point and kickoff) and had to go right back out there. Not that you could plan it but a drive to give the defense some rest and then score would have been better. Either way great game and congradualtions Badgers. We'll beat you next year!
 

I think Weber can still be just as good as he was last year. I have a suspicion that he was better suited and/or more comfortable in the spread. There have been many times this year I have wondered why he didn't pick up the ball and run. I'm guessing the coaches have told him to wait, wait, wait, wait and always try to pass. The thing I don't understand about why so many people want to see Gray at QB is who says he'll be a good pocket passer?

Aside from the ridiculous running yardage Wisconsin put up yesterday I have been fairly happy with the defense. Would Ted Roof's defense have done better against the run??? I have no idea. I think we lost all the battles yesterday on the O-line and the D-line. No pressure on the few passing plays for Wisconsin, and our O-line couldn't hold up when needed. I think these issues are lack of talent more than anything.
 

GopherGod said:
I like Weber and all but he is not one of the best QB's in college football and his arm strength is no where near enough to seriously challenge in the NFL. Look at all his deep throws where the receivers have to slow down or come back for the ball because he does not have the arm strength to hit them in stride.
Click to expand...

Gophergod I respect your opinion. Will he be good enough to play in the league? I think so but time will tell.
 

GVBadger said:
Did the inability of the Gophers to stop Clay have antything to do with the 23-7 minute advantage in TOP that the Badgers had in the second half? Or was it simply the inability of the Gophers to move the ball?

I guess the obvious question is if it had nothing to do with Clay and the offensive line, why didn't the Gophers just stop them?

If you like getting dominated at the line of scrimmage and out rushed 295-57, I guess we like different kinds of football.

I understand you hate Wisconsin and don't want to give them credit for anything and that is fine. Why don't you ask the coaches if Clay and the offensive line had anything to do with how the second half went.

One more thing. When the Gophers returned the fumble for the TD, had all the momentum in the world and were suddenly in a 3 point game with 6 minutes left, how did that next drive for the Badgers go?
Click to expand...

I didn't say it had nothing to do with clay, in fact I gave kudos to him. Nice selective reading, badger. If the gophs move the ball in the third quarter the badgers strategy loses it's effectiveness, in fact if we answer with a score and they can not gain the lead they have to abandon it.

enjoy your dreamland while you can.
 

I wanted to start a new thread on this, but decided it might fit here (coaching changes). Does anyone else wish we were still in the spread with Dunbar as our coordinator? I think we could be doing some pretty nice stuff with Decker, Green, Carpenter, Stoudemire, etc on the field at the same time and getting more touches...I even think Gray would be getting more time if Dunbar were still around. Those guys are our best athletes--not Bennett, Eskridge, Hoese, etc. Fisch's offense may eventually work, but right now we just don't have the personnel to be banging with people and running from the I. JMHO...
 

The spread would probably be serving us better this year, but long term I think we're headed in the right direction, as painful as it might feel at the moment.
 

seriously, two more years before we can start to evaluate him?

Honyocker said:
The Gophers were kicked all over the field today, and that is no exaggeration. Look at the game stats.

OK, the Gophers have had a couple good recruiting classes, but this team is still talent poor. Look at the sad state of the offensive line for starters, or our pathetic safties on defense, or the defensive ends who did not even show up for the game....yes, and then there is Weber, the most overrated QB in the B10. The musical chairs of coordinators/systems/coaches has a much larger effect on this team than anyone has acknowledged. It shows up in execution...mistakes, lack of confidence and penalities.

And guess what, fans. next year will be worst than this year...no Decker, stud linebackers graduate, starting defensive tackles graduate....and on and on it goes.

We will not know how good Brewster is until his first real recruiting class (Feb. 2008) is in their senior season (Fall 2011). If Gophers go 6-6 this year and next with their tougher schedules, well, I will be satisfied. I know that is hard for some to accept, but it is realistic.

But then, starting in the Fall of 2011, we need to start winning at a much higher clip or Brewster goes.
Click to expand...

The lack of discipline Brewster's teams have displayed has nothing to do with the talent level. It has to do with the coaching. 75 yards in penalties, most of them just plain stupid boneheaded mistakes has everything to do with coaching and nothing to do with talent. There is more talent on the o-line than we're getting out of them which goes to your comments on the coaching changes in particular. The team is not well coached. Better players will help us make more plays. Stupidity will continue to undo it all. Just ask Ron Zook who may be on his way out in Illinois even though his team is laden with talented players, at least on paper.
 

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