Kills Toughness

[GoAUpher]

GoAUpher, we're not going to see this the same way and that's fine. You're not concerned about his health or how it affects the stupid people who don't understand seizures and are misinformed by their fear. I am.

Don't misread me. I'm concerned for his health. I love the Gophers, but I don't want our head coach to kill himself trying to turn them into a winner. But Coach Kill is a grown man. He can manage his own health decisions as he sees fit. I don't need to know every little detail of his medical condition to second guess the man. If he wants to have more details revealed to calm people's fears he can do so. Frankly, I think its his choice and that's why I'm not going to care.

However, if you could find me a couple of the articles you're referring to, "all of" which you say covered some 6+ more private incidents, the last of which occurred 5 years ago, that would be sincerely appreciated. I've been unable to find any of these. By the way, when will there be 'evidence of a growing problem'? You said you might change your tune if the seizures become more frequent - when does that happen? If it happens one more time? Every week? Every day?

Before I start trying to come up with hypotheticals that involve assumptions about medical conditions I would like to see at least one more seizure happen. How long until that seizure? I dunno, call it a year. See, this is the problem with non-MD's freaking out about stuff they don't fully understand. I can't cite a medical journal and list the specific conditions under which this becomes a bigger issue. I do know his doctors are saying don't be worried and that it's been 5 years since his last seizure which seems like a reasonable period for an outbreak for a chronic condition that is controlled via medication.

I've seen Dr. Pat Smith and others suggest that the weather and dehydration may have been to blame. Sure it was warm for September, but it was only 90 degrees, a temperature he's been outside for many times in the past. Dr. Smith said the Gophers' medical staff will be much more cognizant of Kill's condition from now on. "I'm going to be his worst enemy, We will have measures in place to address that issue. But that's easy to do." Didn't we already know of the condition? If the measures are so easy to do, why weren't they taken?

There are lots of possible explanations. That's the thing with chronic medical issues that have multiple triggers. The same conditions can cause problems one time and not the next. That's the joy that is living with a chronic problem. Sometimes your best preparations (medications, hydration, etc) fail you. Or sometimes you fail to do something you normally do and that puts your body enough out of whack to create the problem. With a chronic problem there is always the chance that an attack/incident could happen. But once in 5 years seems pretty reasonable to me (in my purely non-medical capacity).

Now, I do think it seems more reasonable to ask if there were things that Dr. Smith didn't know or should have known or if there were things that the staff at NIU/SIU did differently that worked that didn't get done by the U's staff. Those are procedural and when the staff say things that imply they'll do better about being proactive in the future it does seem reasonable to wonder what they missed the last time. That said, it still relates to his private medical condition and I won't be all that miffed if he and his doctors choose hold the information.

Can the Gophers' medical staff do something to ease the stress Kill feels during games? I'd say that's just as likely of a contributor as the weather. Let's go back to his most famous of the handful of seizures we know about. Southern Illinois had just reached a #1 ranking earlier in the week. They were heavy favorites playing on their home field. The temperature at kickoff in Carbondale was 74 degrees and got cooler as the 6pm game progressed. Sounds lovely. However, this game didn't go as planned. Southern Illinois got rolled 61-35 by a big underdog, Illinois State. With 30 seconds remaining in the game, Coach Kill collapsed on the sidelines. Sound familiar?

Here you go, creating all sorts of hypotheticals without being privy to any medical details. And the devil is always in the details with medicine. Sure, it was a nice day. But if dehydration is trigger do you know if Kill was drinking water that day? No, you do not. Could stress be a trigger? Sure. Do you know it is? No. But yes, please feel free to continue to diagnose the man and offer your treatment plans based on something you saw on TV (or in person, can't recall if you said you were there). As I've said several times since the event, there is no one better qualified to treat someone suffering from a chronic medical condition than an anonymous poster on a football message board.

Jerry Kill has said, “The one thing I can promise is that I’m going to work my guts out for you, I’m a workaholic..." Normally I'd think that sounds great. After learning a bit more about his history - a history which I'd like to understand more fully, specifically with regard to the frequency and severity of non-public seizures - and witnessing the scene this past Saturday, it doesn't sound so great anymore.

Awesome. I'm glad you understand it so fully that you can say stress is the cause. Now show me where the actual doctors who are actually treating him are saying that's the issue. You can't? Then you are speculating. Which is pointless and stupid.

So yea, we'll agree to disagree. I'll agree to let a grown man, his family, and his doctors treat the illness in the safest manner possible that makes sense to them and I'll let him release as much or as little medical information as is needed and keep the rest to himself. You can continue to create theories to explain the situation based on what you saw on TV or in person. Have fun with that.

 

[zambam]

Leave the man's medical condition be. There are people getting paid a lot of money to know more about this than anyone here.

 

[NateDawgUM]

Sounds like Gopher Warrior thinks having a seizure disorder is grounds for dismissal. Hasn't the Athletic Dept. gone through enough lawsuits lately?

Seizures LOOK scary. They're not terribly concerning if you've had them before. I texted my Dad, who is a neurosurgeon and is VERY familiar with seizures, when Kill went down. "Has he had them before?" was his first response. "Yes." "Then no big deal." It's a disorder. If it was his first seizure then he would probably have a more serious underlying health problem.

Many coaches have health problems. We all know about Dantonio's heart attack and his team won a share of the Big Ten last year. Tom Osborne had bypass surgery in the mid 80s. He won 3 National Titles after that, was a congressman and is now the Athletic Director that orchestrated a move to the Big Ten Conference. If we had internet message boards back then, I'm sure people would have opined that he should retire. For HIS sake, right?

 

[Oneoldgopher]

Oneoldgopher you just fouled out, baggage or not Jerry Kill was the best coach available when we hired him. I can live with his disability far better than I can tolerate reading you. Coach Kill just might be trying too hard but that's what this program needs some one who keeps working thru adversity. I have full faith in Coach and the medical staff to keep his condition under control.

What did I write, you ignorant git. I did not call for his termination in that statement on his health. Nor, did I advocate the U do so. What I stated is that he had disclosed his condition to the U. The U did not have a right in the interview to ask about his health, as they don't have a legal right to make it a condition of his employment. Next, I stated how his health affects the team. It is obvious that it detracts from the team in so many ways. Then, I stated I hoped he manages his condition and that he take his health seriously. Lastly, I wished him well. The reason I wrote that in the first place is that so many on this board have the mis-perception that the U could ask him health related questions legally in his interview. And, that they still have the option of terminating the relationship if they find that it interferes with his performance. If he is away on Saturday, it is obviously interfering with performance. They could not terminate him for his health condition, but they can determine that that condition is so detrimental to the performance of his duties that they can dismiss him, which I indirectly pointed out, but did not advocate. I may advocate that for other reasons later this season, and oh yes, I will write it at some point. But, not for last Saturday's seizure. Nowhere in my statement did I ever say he wasn't the best candidate available or should not have been hired at all.
Lastly, I am not convinced that our medical staff has any more miraculous cures for his condition than did his last medical staff jtreating him. We shall see if they can control the number of events that occur. I fully expect that it will occur again, not because I am a MD or anything like it, but because he has been under medical care here for the last 9 months or so. If he hasn't, that would just cause me to have more concern about his judgement. Frankly, I was rather careful in what I stated in my previous post in this thread. You should at least be patient enough to actually read what I stated.

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

It burdens the public.

Yes, the burden it has placed on the public has been enormous. Hopefully the public can continue on with their lives in view of this great burden that they have been saddled with.

 

[nsmike]

Oneoldgopher unless your a Neurosurgeon, with access Coach Kills medical file, your not in position to say what he needs to do. The fact that he had several in consecutive years, then kept increasing the interval until now, says he's been managing it well. I personally managed my allergies well until all of a sudden my medication didn't work, a change of medication and it's back under control. I've had two more serious medical conditions, that were difficult to diagnose, but easy to fix, two routine surgeries and I'm fine. I really resent people without the facts making recommendations about medical treatment.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

A couple of requests: please try to refrain from putting words in my mouth and please find me some doctors who will say that stress levels are of no concern when it comes to Jerry Kill's health.

I think people are understating the significance of his health issues (those that we are aware of). Also, I disagree with those who don't believe this affects how some recruits will view the prospects of playing for Minnesota. Outside of the argument of whether they should or should not, it simply will have an affect on some.

"That (cancer misconception) affects recruiting and everything that I am doing right now." -- Jerry Kill, one year ago

A few things I've gathered about this strong willed man who turned 50 just last month...

in 2006, Kill said a doctor, "told me the seizures are brought on by fatigue and lack of sleep".

In 2011,promises that he is going to 'work his guts out' for the program and that he is a 'workaholic'.

Kill says the episode on Saturday was the worst he's experienced. Doesn't remember anything from the important fourth quarter and for a couple of days in the hospital.

I see where this is whole thing is probably headed. Not good.

September of last year, he had his gall bladder removed - why exactly doesn't appear to have been disclosed. The procedure required an overnight stay.

September of last year, just over a week after the gall bladder surgery and shortly after a football game, he was rushed to a hospital after collapsing and he spent approximately five days there. He was treated for dehydration, but that's all I know about that particular stay. It would be nice to know more if that information is available.

In his early 30's had a seizure or a 'similar issue'.

In 2000, still in his 30's, he had a seizure which he described as more severe than the one in his early 30's.

2001 has a seizure shortly after a game.

2005, as his #1 ranked team is getting blown out at home to a lesser opponent, collapses on the sidelines with 30 seconds remaining in the game. Kidney cancer found and treated shortly thereafter.

2006, another known seizure.

2010, as discussed above, had the gall bladder surgery and later in the same month spent another five days in the hospital after collapsing a few hours after a game.

Then, this past Saturday.

Is it continuing to happen? Is it getting more severe? I've got a lot of a respect for a guy that fights like he does, but at some point it becomes a bad fight. Minnesota signed up for it (well, partly.. they decided to not be concerned about the known dehydration issue until this week.. as team doctor Pat Smith says, "shame on us for that".. yeah, no kidding) and will have to answer for it if things go where I believe they likely may.

I'll be hoping for the best, but I do not feel good about any of this. Sounds like I'm again in the minority here, though. OK, I'm done with it (for now at least). It's just curious to me that more people don't share my perspective/concerns. Then again, seems like that is often the case.

Alright, time to watch this QB controversy develop further!

 

[Oneoldgopher]

Oneoldgopher unless your a Neurosurgeon, with access Coach Kills medical file, your not in position to say what he needs to do. The fact that he had several in consecutive years, then kept increasing the interval until now, says he's been managing it well. I personally managed my allergies well until all of a sudden my medication didn't work, a change of medication and it's back under control. I've had two more serious medical conditions, that were difficult to diagnose, but easy to fix, two routine surgeries and I'm fine. I really resent people without the facts making recommendations about medical treatment.

I suggested that he listen to his care team. Hoped he had. Allergies. What a laugh. By the way, what recommendation did I make? I believe I suggested he listen to his care team here. It certainly is not a recommendation for treatment for anything. I usually resent people who have my chart, like the above post, and can't read what I actually said and criticize me for something unsaid. So, I suggest you relax, watch the game, and when I pass you in the stands, remain calm. I am not going to lobotomize the Coach on the field or anywhere else. I am personally relieved that your recovered from your surgeries. The only thing I resent is not getting to know you better.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I think people are understating the significance of his health issues (those that we are aware of).

I see where this is whole thing is probably headed. Not good.

September of last year, he had his gall bladder removed - why exactly doesn't appear to have been disclosed. The procedure required an overnight stay.

September of last year, just over a week after the gall bladder surgery and shortly after a football game, he was rushed to a hospital after collapsing and he spent approximately five days there. He was treated for dehydration, but that's all I know about that particular stay. It would be nice to know more if that information is available.

I've got a lot of a respect for a guy that fights like he does, but at some point it becomes a bad fight. Minnesota signed up for it (well, partly.. they decided to not be concerned about the known dehydration issue until this week.. as team doctor Pat Smith says, "shame on us for that".. yeah, no kidding) and will have to answer for it if things go where I believe they likely may.

I'll be hoping for the best, but I do not feel good about any of this. Sounds like I'm again in the minority here, though. OK, I'm done with it (for now at least). It's just curious to me that more people don't share my perspective/concerns. Then again, seems like that is often the case.

Alright, time to watch this QB controversy develop further!

Soon it'll be more than just a few of us who are asking the questions -- did Minnesota do their due diligence in making this hire? More egg on the face of the University is coming. Is this just 'misfortune' / bad luck? No, when there is 20 years of history it's not simply bad luck. Parading the head medical guy on the sidelines to hand over a cup of water isn't going to solve things. A concerned hug from the U's president before kickoff is no way to put some swagger in your a$$.

"[Coach Kill has] decided to become proactive about getting the seizures under control [by going to the Mayo]" -- Star Tribune right now. Are you kidding me? That is beyond ludicrous - whoever wrote that may need to check into the hospital too -- they're nuts.

 

[Formo]

You'd think one would be more concerned with the health of our football program's ambassador and giving him well wishes/prayers/thoughts/etc than how the 'U' handled the hiring and it's 'face'.

 

[rychart45]

I'll give GW credit - he's easy to read. He doesn't think Kill should be our coach, and on the Bball board he's made it obvious he doesn't like Trevor Mbakwe.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

Plus it may impact recruiting...other coaches will not be kind about it.